DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The OBJ-Baker Connection: Linchpin to the season?

Eli was not all the way washed at OBJ’s peak.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00.htm

He also knew how to diagnose what was going to happen and get the ball to the correct person.

Conditional 6th? Why not.

Not saying Baker doesn't have issues and need to improve in many respects ... but this is exactly how I remember the Giants and OBJ. Chuck it up and let OBJ go get it. . . . that is a product as much on the play call as it is on the QB... much more so in fact. And Stefanski isn't a "chuck it up there" guy.

thats strange because this narrative supports Rish and others comments that Stefanski took the gunslinger play out of baker and turned him into kirk cousins.

Ski didn't take the gunslinger out of Baker; he just tries to keep him from being that. He wants Baker to be a game manager and pocket passer like Cousins. At least that's what the play calling says to me. And this going for it on 4th all the time crap is crazy. I'd be fine with going for it often, but not every time or even MOST of the time. Going for it on 4th down has cost us a lot of points this year IMHO. I feel the exact same about the Baker-OBJ connection. And I don't blame that on either player, but it doesn't keep happening if it's a nothing burger... However, at some point you have to believe your eyes.

Why is that strange ?

I don't and can't know what Stefanski is coaching and what he wants Baker to be and I am not going to try to pretend to know that. To me it would seem a wrong direction to take the raw QB we saw in his rookie season and the guy that finished last season as an 'elite' NFL QB - and try to make him into Cousins who is a very good QB, but does not posses the same arm talent we saw from Baker. Cousins cannot and will never make some of the throws Baker has made already in his NFL career, including the 66 air yard Hail Mary to end the half vs the Cardinals.

With that said - it definitely seems to me that KS is conservative in nature and might well look at analytics and follow a line of thinking that if you don't turn the ball over you win more often ... and based on that he may well (and to my eyes is) calling plays that do not air it out. People got so caught up in Baker's interceptions at one time - maybe KS did to? Maybe the pendulum has swung too much the other way - we need balance. We need playing to win not playing calls not to lose - we need the first 20 minutes of the Seattle game in 2019 where we were up by 21 (I think?) and then the measured approach where analytics kicks in and says - no, you don't need to score again twice in the last 5 minutes of the half ....

On the interceptions, to me a lot of it is situational ... I like that Baker, chasing a game where he is 2 or more scores down in the 4th Q, is more than happy to sling it around and take risks and does not care about statistics. All he cares about is winning and taking risks WAS something he was willing to do. To me - on 3rd and medium/long - throwing a 45 air pass that gets intercepted without a return is just the same as a punt. Those are different than the bad pass/interception vs Cardinals - or misreads and bad throws. We saw both (risk taking and bad throws) when Freddie was coach and we had all those interceptions, but I think many fans just look at 21 interceptions and don't factor much else into it.

Well, if we see Keenum out there, then we'll get our answer. If KS is coaching and calling plays for Baker to be Cousins (?), then Keenum should be able to come in and play well, right?

What’s the most we could get back for OBJ in a trade? Fourth rounder?

Not worth it. We should try to fix him the rest of the year. IF that doesn't happen let him walk next year and take the comp pick, because it will probably be higher than anything we get in trade. Third rounder I'm thinking. And if we can fix him, offer him a lowball show me contract for next year.

You don’t get a compensatory pick if you cut a guy.

Keep him until he reaches FA? Not sure what happens, but here is this explanation:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-compensatory-pick-projections-for-every-team

Why can't OBJ just make one of those super star one handed grabs for us?

He short armed a decent throw (not good but got 1 hand on it) that in the past he would've gone up to snatch, maybe he's gun shy cuz of all the injuries?

Age and injuries come for all of us sooner or later. I don't think it's a matter of heart, or want, or chemistry, or any such thing. I just think OBJ is done being that guy.

All I know is that as of right now, NY won the hell out of that trade.

It's sad realizing Dave Gettleman got the best of us twice in the matter of a week.

OBJ has officially checked out. He's gonna go somewhere else and look like an all-star

I know how compensatory picks work.

OBJ will not be on the roster next year unless he takes a major pay cut. I’m not sure the pay cut will even be offered to him.

Would the Pack give up a conditional 2nd for him?

No chance.

Today feels like rock bottom with this debate

Our QB/receivers are out of sync. It isn’t just OBJ but clearly everyone. Even the baker/Huggins connection isn’t there like it was.

You can't force a square peg into a round hole and expect it to be a good fit... Ski needs to get past his time with Cousins and rediscover Baker Mayfield, the one from college, rookie year, and late last season. And I think these WRs are off because nobody practices. We're too worried about them getting hurt in full go practice, yet that's the best way to be game ready. And I wonder why Ski is playing so reserved, with the short passes, other teams are just stacking the box to kill us. Last year Baker kept them honest.

Was at the game, OBJ is open a lot. Baker is the problem. He either doesn't see him, or he can't see him. There were a couple times he had his man beat and was behind the defense, and Baker never even looked his way. I never believed it, but after watching live, and seeing the whole field, Baker is the problem. Sit him until he heals, then next offseason, bring in a QB who can actually see the field. While we are at it, draft a decent WR, because we don't have a good one on this team.

This will define Stefanski. We need a more "air raid" offense that suits Mayfield. Will Kevin be smart enough to design the offense around Mayfield?? So far that's a no.

Baker is the problem.

Kevin, that you?

If I, as management, had to hitch my wagon to one or the other for the next 10 years...I'm picking Stefanski over Baker and never looking back.

I’ve seen how many times he’s open. Obviously people are gonna point to some of the drops he had, but it’s clear OBJ is open more often than not.

That being said, if baker isn’t looking his way, is that because baker doesn’t think he can get the ball that far to OBJ? Or is it Stefanski telling baker not to even try to make those throws?

Or is it that the only time Baker targets OBJ is when he's both his first read AND open, because he doesn't go through his progressions fast/well enough?

I did wonder several weeks ago, before Baker got hurt, if they are keeping that deep stuff in reserve for the home stretch. Then I thought about Baker's preseason in 2019 and all the deep strikes to WRs they showed in camp all the time... Last year there was way less for obvious reasons, but I don't recall a single deep bomb in any camp footage this year. Do you think they quit practicing them?

And another thing I'm not seeing recently is the WRs fighting as hard for the YAC as they were before and last year. Baker is hurt, but I still think healthy Bake is a top 10 QB when he's hot and the pieces around him are all clicking like last year.

Or is it that OBJ is open but not when and where he is supposed to be?

Baker spreads the ball around quite well...him not "seeing" JUST OBJ would be really weird. I'm sticking by my prediction that some time after OBJ is gone, the stories of his route running and timing will come out.

Baker is not the problem. 5'10" (ha) WRs who drop the ball while making 32 mil/yr are the problem.

The unfortunate thing is Baker/Landry and Baker/Higgy usually are pretty well connected. Yesterday they weren’t

DISCLAIMER: I can't figure out if there is a way to bold or underline text on the new site here...so I picked the above out of the below.

"Was at the game, OBJ is open a lot. Baker is the problem. He either doesn't see him, or he can't see him. There were a couple times he had his man beat and was behind the defense, and Baker never even looked his way. I never believed it, but after watching live, and seeing the whole field, Baker is the problem. Sit him until he heals, then next offseason, bring in a QB who can actually see the field. While we are at it, draft a decent WR, because we don't have a good one on this team."

Baker was 20-31 yesterday. Landry had (2) huge drops...D'Earnest had (2) dropped balls that hit him in the head/chest...Hooper dropped an easy TD. That's just off the top of my head and before re-watching the game.

Baker is not the problem. Next up will be the 'ole 'Baker can't lead a comeback' BS (not saying from you)...he did it TWICE yesterday in answer to the Steelers' last TD...TWICE!

The bold and other features are available if you hit "use full editor" tab underneath the text box.

Agree on the 5 drops. Making it 20-26: 77% competition while playing with serious injury.

At this point any loss is an excuse to Baker Bash. It won't stop. Baker definitely has room to improve. He may cost us a game with some really bad play before the end of the season (assuming he doesn't get sat down due to injury) ... but there's a whole lot that ails this team other than Baker. Baker is not the reason we are 4-4

Last year Baker didn't have a sling on his arm either.

j/c...

At some point production matters. I have never come across a situation like this with any team.

The team should sit both Baker and Beckham for the immediate future, (Cincinnati game), plus.)
It's pretty obvious that
neither player is healthy anyway.

He did it twice yesterday? Where were the points. The Browns only scored 10 all day.
aggravation: Lauletta, Keenum, (injured Baker), AGGRAVATION that I have to make a case for one of those < 3, options.
Who waived Lauletta?
well of course! well of course!! well of course!!! they all stink, one of them should have been able to get a touchdown but which one. TEN POINTS!
" there are only bad options, this is the best bad option we have."

The bold and underline options are after choosing "use full editor" which gives the full page reply screen.