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They did so great with Baker that both Hue and Gregg Williams never returned as HC. And improved from what? He had never taken an NFL snap before 2018.

You can't say a rookie "improved" from the prior season when he has no history of play in the NFL prior to gauge it upon. Did the "team" play better for Williams than Hue? Yes they did. But that was the entire team. Obviously he didn't do nearly enough.


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If you want to re-hash Hue/Williams, go ahead. I'm talking about Baker.

I didn't say he improved his rookie year. I said he exceeded expectations. Don't put words in my mouth.


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Okay. You just to Freddie then.


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The Knuckle ball:
There may be times in the NFL game when the situation presents itself, that, in order to beat a defense's anticipated reaction and attempts to intercept normal passes at normal speeds,
where throwing a lame duck, floating, slow arriving, knuckle ball of a pass, Intentionally, is the best option.

I've seen the steelers, appear to throw these as planned, pre snap, known commodities, twice.

I think the Browns should incorporate it. If just one in 200 attempts, whenever called for.
Just a high arching arrives like a punt, slow, up for grabs pass,
or a slow arriving wobbler.
If the offense knows it is coming pre-snap, it can make all the difference.


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Mayfield is Cleveland's QB.

Screw what Mass Media thinks!


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Baker looked amazing today. He is our Franchise QB.

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He played really well. Some of those throws were ridiculous.

The hype video isn't my cup of tea (talking about how talk is cheap... lol), but hey whatever works for him.


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I like Baker but that last pass he should have just thrown it to the sideline or have taken the sack, we were fighting the clock not so much the yardage so there was no need to force the throw.


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Originally Posted By: dawg66
I like Baker but that last pass he should have just thrown it to the sideline or have taken the sack, we were fighting the clock not so much the yardage so there was no need to force the throw.


I haven't heard Baker's comments yet so I don't know for sure but I think he was trying to throw it away when he got tripped. That looked like it caused him to not get all of it on the throw.


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Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: dawg66
I like Baker but that last pass he should have just thrown it to the sideline or have taken the sack, we were fighting the clock not so much the yardage so there was no need to force the throw.


I haven't heard Baker's comments yet so I don't know for sure but I think he was trying to throw it away when he got tripped. That looked like it caused him to not get all of it on the throw.


He might have been but he could have just thrown it to the sideline near him instead of throwing it upfield where the defenders were. In that situation don't force it, take the loss in either the sack or penalty and loss of down due to no receiver in the area and live to play another down.


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Originally Posted By: dawg66
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Originally Posted By: dawg66
I like Baker but that last pass he should have just thrown it to the sideline or have taken the sack, we were fighting the clock not so much the yardage so there was no need to force the throw.


I haven't heard Baker's comments yet so I don't know for sure but I think he was trying to throw it away when he got tripped. That looked like it caused him to not get all of it on the throw.


He might have been but he could have just thrown it to the sideline near him instead of throwing it upfield where the defenders were. In that situation don't force it, take the loss in either the sack or penalty and loss of down due to no receiver in the area and live to play another down.


it looked like he was throwing it away and he didn't have enough zip on it. I think he had to throw it past the los because he was was in the tackle box.


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I think he was already in the process of throwing before he lost balance and it was too late to correct it. I'm sure he wishes he had that one back but it looked to me like he was beginning his delivery as he went down. After watching how well he played all day it's hard for me to fathom he actually threw that ball intentionally.


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He was throwing it away, and got grabbed by the ankle enough that it threw him off.


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Overall Baker played great.. and I do think he was trying to throw the ball away when he got tripped up from behind...

The sequence I was disappointed in was at the end of the first half.. we had 1st and 10 from the 36 with :49 seconds and two timeouts... plenty of time to run 5 or 6 more plays (or more).. we were on the very edge of FG range.. Baker threw 1 short pass, then 2 into the endzone. Third one was a penalty so move it back, then the sack.

We had more than enough time to get into GOOD FG range before we took shots at the endzone. Heck, we had time to run the ball if we wanted to.. So whether it was the play calling or the choice Baker made in where to go with the ball, I thought that was a big missed opportunity to increase our lead.

Kind of did the same thing on the next to last drive on 3rd and 6, tried a very difficult pass 25 yards downfield to Schwartz when what we needed was 7 yards and move the chains..


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Overall Baker played great.. and I do think he was trying to throw the ball away when he got tripped up from behind...

The sequence I was disappointed in was at the end of the first half.. we had 1st and 10 from the 36 with :49 seconds and two timeouts... plenty of time to run 5 or 6 more plays (or more).. we were on the very edge of FG range.. Baker threw 1 short pass, then 2 into the endzone. Third one was a penalty so move it back, then the sack.

We had more than enough time to get into GOOD FG range before we took shots at the endzone. Heck, we had time to run the ball if we wanted to.. So whether it was the play calling or the choice Baker made in where to go with the ball, I thought that was a big missed opportunity to increase our lead.

Kind of did the same thing on the next to last drive on 3rd and 6, tried a very difficult pass 25 yards downfield to Schwartz when what we needed was 7 yards and move the chains..

were all the short passes covered? I don't know. I'd have to think if Jarvis was open he would have gotten the ball


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Quote:
were all the short passes covered? I don't know. I'd have to think if Jarvis was open he would have gotten the ball

Just went back and rewatched those plays.. first down he threw it away, second down we had 3 guys run short routes, two were covered, Landry was pretty open for a 6 or 7 yard gain and could have gotten out of bounds. Third down, we had 4 guys run very deep routes and the only guy underneath was Hunt as the outlet and he was covered.

Like I said, poor play calling, poor execution, some of both, not blaming it all on Baker.. I just thought it was a bad sequence when what we needed was to run 3 plays to try to get another first down to make it a manageable FG and get us closer to the endzone. And we still would have had 30 seconds and maybe a timeout.


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I don't really disagree with you if your game plan is to be conservative and safe. On the other hand if your game plan is to be aggressive and attacking, you go for the throat. As many times as we went for it on fourth down I think the game plan on O was to be aggressive and attack.

I tend to think more in the same terms you do in such a situation. But I can also see why Stefanski might take the play calling approach he did.


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Baker may have been trying to throw it away but with him being under pressure he should have just thrown it to the sideline, no need to throw it near a receiver cause your gonna lose the down anyways so just take the penalty instead of taking a chance of it getting intercepted, which is what happened. Live to play another down.


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That's if you believe he wasn't already in the process of throwing the ball as he was going down. I do not believe that.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
That's if you believe he wasn't already in the process of throwing the ball as he was going down. I do not believe that.


He was under pressure and the defender grabs his ankles and while going down he throws it at Bryant who was double covered. Just chuck it into the ground.


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Whatever you think. We just saw the play differently. The way I saw it he had already entered his throwing motion and it was too late for what you are suggesting.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Whatever you think. We just saw the play differently. The way I saw it he had already entered his throwing motion and it was too late for what you are suggesting.


This is how I saw it also.


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J/C

In regards to the INT, I think he was definitely throwing it away and his foot got grabbed. Really bad luck


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He was hit while throwing.

His intent as stated by him was to throw it out of bounds.

Credit needs to go to the rusher that hit his legs.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish

He was hit while throwing.

His intent as stated by him was to throw it out of bounds.

Credit needs to go to the rusher that hit his legs.


It doesn't matter if he was hit while he was throwing or not he threw the ball away by throwing it 15 yards down field towards a teammate who was double covered when he could have thrown it 5 yards to an empty sideline.


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Let me ask you this. How long would it take a human being in the motion of throwing to react and change their delivery as they're being hit? Hell, QB's throw the ball away 30 and 40 yards down the field all the time. I have no idea why you keep harping on that part.


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Baker was definitely trying to throw the ball out, but the defender got his foot just in time.

The way the drive was going, in the future baker will know just to eat the sack. We would’ve been fine.

Oh well. Baker had a great game otherwise.


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My point exactly either take the sack or make damn sure your throw is going out of bounds. Baker threw the pass right at his teammate who was double covered when he should have been just throwing it to the open sideline.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Let me ask you this. How long would it take a human being in the motion of throwing to react and change their delivery as they're being hit? Hell, QB's throw the ball away 30 and 40 yards down the field all the time. I have no idea why you keep harping on that part.


If he had thrown it toward the empty sideline to start with he wouldn't have had to change his throwing motion and his being hit wouldn't have mattered. Even if he was trying to throw it away why would you throw it straight towards a teammate that was double covered in the first place? and Yes QBs do throw the ball away 30-40 yds downfield but they make sure the ball is well out of play.


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Baker probably had too many Intentional Grounding calls last year due to throwing short of the line of scrimmage. He's probably paranoid to throw short out of bounds...just my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
Baker probably had too many Intentional Grounding calls last year due to throwing short of the line of scrimmage. He's probably paranoid to throw short out of bounds...just my humble opinion.


Practice more then. You wouldn't see Mahomes make that boneheaded throw.

I've seen so many excuses, the fact of the matter is that Baker blew it.

And that's OK, as long as he rebounds and never does it again.

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Originally Posted By: myka
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
Baker probably had too many Intentional Grounding calls last year due to throwing short of the line of scrimmage. He's probably paranoid to throw short out of bounds...just my humble opinion.


Practice more then. You wouldn't see Mahomes make that boneheaded throw.

I've seen so many excuses, the fact of the matter is that Baker blew it.

And that's OK, as long as he rebounds and never does it again.


To be fair Mahomes DID get hit with Ineligible man downfield when he tried to throw it i the dirt 5 yards in front of him...


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Originally Posted By: myka
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
Baker probably had too many Intentional Grounding calls last year due to throwing short of the line of scrimmage. He's probably paranoid to throw short out of bounds...just my humble opinion.


Practice more then. You wouldn't see Mahomes make that boneheaded throw.

I've seen so many excuses, the fact of the matter is that Baker blew it.

And that's OK, as long as he rebounds and never does it again.


Good job this is an individual sport and results rest with the one person, and things like Defense and fumbles and muffed punts don't play a part in the result ... good job Baker's first half performance that got us a (i think) 12 point lead don't matter. Good job Joe Woods performance and scheme have no impact coz his job is safe for the season now. Phew.


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I guess Chubb has been relegated from elite RB to all-so-ran because he fumbled too? Are posters posting that too?


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Baker gets tight with the game on the line and a lot at stake. It started with the short armed throw to Njoku on the previous drive and continued on the last drive. No one in America thought Baker was going to bring the Browns back on that drive and they were right. And there in lies the problem.

I think Baker is a really good QB, maybe even great,, and I am happy to have him. I think he is overly criticized in the media, and I think the Browns need to extend him. The Browns will win a lot of games with Baker and should be a contender for years. But in order to be the last team standing at the end of the year, your QB has to deliver when it matters most. This is the way the NFL works. It doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is or what has happened in the game up to that point. I went back and looked at all of Baker's games since his rookie year. He just really hasn't had a signature come from behind win against a premium opponent. Am I the only one that finds this concerning?

And I'm talking about this through the context of winning Super Bowls, not just winning games. Baker is plenty good to win games with. Yesterday he proved the Tannenbaums and Bart Scotts of the world right. He can't put the team on his shoulders.

I hope this changes and this will no longer be the narrative. But in my opinion this narrative is warranted.

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Baker gets tight with the game on the line and a lot at stake. It started with the short armed throw to Njoku on the previous drive and continued on the last drive. No one in America thought Baker was going to bring the Browns back on that drive and they were right. And there in lies the problem.

I think Baker is a really good QB, maybe even great,, and I am happy to have him. I think he is overly criticized in the media, and I think the Browns need to extend him. The Browns will win a lot of games with Baker and should be a contender for years. But in order to be the last team standing at the end of the year, your QB has to deliver when it matters most. This is the way the NFL works. It doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is or what has happened in the game up to that point. I went back and looked at all of Baker's games since his rookie year. He just really hasn't had a signature come from behind win against a premium opponent. Am I the only one that finds this concerning?

And I'm talking about this through the context of winning Super Bowls, not just winning games. Baker is plenty good to win games with. Yesterday he proved the Tannenbaums and Bart Scotts of the world right. He can't put the team on his shoulders.

I hope this changes and this will no longer be the narrative. But in my opinion this narrative is warranted.

No one in America thought he'd bring them back!! I bet 95% of America plus 99% of the stadium thought they'd score the winning TD. They didn't punt till the 4th Quarter and scored a TD in every drive except the end of half. Seriously!!!


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Originally Posted By: Moxdawg
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Baker gets tight with the game on the line and a lot at stake. It started with the short armed throw to Njoku on the previous drive and continued on the last drive. No one in America thought Baker was going to bring the Browns back on that drive and they were right. And there in lies the problem.

I think Baker is a really good QB, maybe even great,, and I am happy to have him. I think he is overly criticized in the media, and I think the Browns need to extend him. The Browns will win a lot of games with Baker and should be a contender for years. But in order to be the last team standing at the end of the year, your QB has to deliver when it matters most. This is the way the NFL works. It doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is or what has happened in the game up to that point. I went back and looked at all of Baker's games since his rookie year. He just really hasn't had a signature come from behind win against a premium opponent. Am I the only one that finds this concerning?

And I'm talking about this through the context of winning Super Bowls, not just winning games. Baker is plenty good to win games with. Yesterday he proved the Tannenbaums and Bart Scotts of the world right. He can't put the team on his shoulders.

I hope this changes and this will no longer be the narrative. But in my opinion this narrative is warranted.

No one in America thought he'd bring them back!! I bet 95% of America plus 99% of the stadium thought they'd score the winning TD. They didn't punt till the 4th Quarter and scored a TD in every drive except the end of half. Seriously!!!

I can't testify to what anybody else in America thought... Personally, I didn't know if we would score or not, but I had full confidence that we would get down close enough to have a couple good shots at it.


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