DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DEFENSE still wins championships...

Progress implies a progress. One data point is not a progression.

You are experiencing a thing called confirmation bias where you make a limited number of data points fit your model, and remove any (first two games) that don't.

Hopefully there is progress and we see a stout defense against a team that actually has a play caller that is completely inept.

I think Kitchens would have called a better game for the Bears yesterday, walking in off the street, after a nap, while eating taco.

Soooo, I see JOK was the highest rated LB in the NFL for week three. Nice.

I have no issue with a discussion about anything it was when the discussion went to firings and that this issue lies with Ski that set the hairs on the back of my neck on end.

When the talk turns to undoing the progress we have made I get testy, please excuse me. Then it and we fall back into the trap that held us captive for decades and you bet I will stand up to it every single time.

If there was ever an internal enemy of this team and its fans it was firings I hated them even though I thought some were justified I am so happy to leave that in the past and I certainly have no desire for it to ever return I prefer people retire after getting us a few Lombardi's.

One thing we have to remember. I don't think much of our talk has any impact on the players or coaches and how they go about doing things.

Only idiots listen to idiots.

I am not calling any one of us idiots, or maybe I am calling all of us idiots because as fans we really don't have an objective view.

Just read gameday chat or listen to comments at the bar while watching the game. One minute this or that guy sucks and needs to be benched at minimum, if not just cut outright and told to start walking home.

A few minutes later, "I love that guy!"

In most cases it is just fickle fans. In some rarer cases they are trolls trying to agitate. Either way, don't worry about it.

It is what it is and always will be.

The underlying message coming from the press last week was perhaps Woods should look for other work. Did they say fire no but the message was pretty clear then fans here started either outright saying it or hinting at it.

This is how it starts I have no stomach for it and we all have witnessed firings that have started in the fan base and in the media.. So it's pretty important from where I sit to stamp it out before it ever gets started.

Oh and don't tell Mac that the Browns don't read his posts or look for his approval for the scheme they run it will truly upset him.....

Because you are (and have been) clearly responding to me. I've tried several times to make my point clear, but you seem hell-bent on this weird chest-beating "my team" shtick.

I think the larger point of why would I respond to someone that brings so little to the conversation is a valid one, but it gets on my nerves when someone comes in blowing small comments out of proportion, and then responds with insults when they don't even have a firm grasp on basic spelling and grammar. It's like red to a bull, I guess.

And I don't think a single person has read your comments and just "shut up". They might have been confused, but you're not the arbiter of what can and can't be posted on a public message board (God help us if you were).

It is progress. IMO, the D did most (if not all) of the things I was bummed they didn't do vs the Texans. They harassed a rookie QB and clearly outplayed an obviously overmatched opponent. What's more, they carried the O until they got their feet under them. I think that last part is a significant step for the D (playing well and getting stops when the O isn't quite pulling their weight).

he was really, really impressive

That's fair. I'll admit that between the opening kickoff and the end of the game, I have flung to various extremes before calming down after the game is over.

I hope it is progress and not an anomaly.

The next game will be telling.

Yeah, I'll be very interested to see how the D shows up to this game. We have a QB in his 10th year and a very good run game. Stefanski should be able to impart some of his wisdom and experience regarding the Vikings onto Joe Woods (I guess you could say the same in reverse for Mike Zimmer).

There are a lot of elements for Woods to consider and I'll be curious to see what we implement come game time.

Zimmer know Ski, but he doesn't really know our personnel like Ski does.

Ski knows Zimmer AND their personnel.

Advantage: Ski


Their OLine isn't as bad as Chicago, but their LT and Center have pretty poor grades on PFF. They have Dalvin Cook, though, so our Run D will definitely get tested early and often.

IF we can handle the Run game, then taking away Justin Jefferson, Tyler Conklin, and Adam Thielen will be a bit easier. The thing is: we have the horses to get it done. It's just a matter of the guys suiting up and doing it.

Earlier you mentioned data points. Well let's look at "actual data points". You are only looking at game results.

Was the secondary coverage tighter? Yes.

Was the blitz used more often? Yes.

Were pressures and sacks up? Yes.

These were the major data points you complained about previously. So stop pretending like it wasn't a vast improvement in different phases of the defense.

I totally agree with your post with one exception. Who said they had "suddenly "Gel"..ed" yesterday?

Nobody I've seen. All I've seen said was that they showed improvement yesterday. A lot of improvement as you pointed out yourself.

I myself had stated they would have to learn to crawl before they could walk in this defense with so many new moving parts. That things would be added as time went on. Well yesterday they started taking their first steps.

I wouldn't mind us digging deeper into what happened between the Texans game and the Bears game in terms of our secondary. Did the Texans have a faster, overall, WR corps that we were worried about (just spitballing a possible example)?

I read somewhere that he had the highest one game rating of any LB since late in the 2019 season.

I would say it was a combination of things. When you face a QB the mold of a "Mahomes" who can avoid pressure and make something out of nothing you may tend to try and keep someone like Hill in front of you. Giving up the underneath stuff rather than take a big risk of being burned over the top.

I don't think you play every team the same way. You play verses their personnel. People can say what they like, but had we not gifted the ball to Mahomes three times in the fourth quarter we wouldn't have lost that game.

I haven't really looked that closely into the Texans game. But nothing about their QB and WR's gives me that same feeling. You do have to take into account that Tyrod scrambles a lot but I don't see that as impacting coverage.

I think we are just implementing more on defense as time goes on.

Ive watched Minnesota quite a bit because I have Cook and Thielen. They are a very good offensive team, especially at home on turf. They can put up 30+ very easily. I expect a high scoring game Sunday.

Conklin has come on strong for them, which is another concern

If I hadn't been reading DT for a few years it would be shocking just how dishonest you are.

Throughout this thread you've given this excuse that the defense needs to 'gel' and that it'll take time. Your implication is that we'd be looking at several more games before this defense is where it ought to be.

Now you want to chastise a poster who recognizes the anomaly of a defensive performance and is only pointing out the next step is to start to show consistency.

Clearly no one could rightly expect such a performance every week, but if this past Sunday did anything for this thread was prove the point that posters such as myself and many others have been making: the defense this year under Woods has been underperforming what it is currently capable of.

EVERYTHING this defense did this weekend is what WE'VE been saying Woods needs to call and what YOU'VE been telling us is unrealistic to expect any time soon.

I get trying to play it safe against the Chiefs, but there is no reason even half of what we saw against the Bears wasn't brought against the Texans.

Woods called a great game this past weekend. I think everyone hopes he continues to do so.

Were you examples better because we played a Bears team without an OLine, no real receiving threat, no real running threat and a game plan that would have embarrassed any other play caller in the leauge?

Dude, your need t be right after one great game by our defense is ridiculous. They had 2 luke warm games where they couldn't get off the field. Now that they had a 9 sack game you act like they are the greatest defense in NFL history.

You can't "wait and see" after 2 games that don't meet your point of view then suddenly jump up and down after one game that does. You have a confirmation bias, you know they are the greatest so you see it.

I saw a team that showed improvement against inferior talent and a game plan out of the Bears that was made for getting their new QB killed.

Hopefully the destroy the Vikings too. That would then be a trend, what you have now is an anomaly.

But this will be the last time I respond to you. You need to be right, you need to show us how smart you are and you need to let everyone know you are wonderful. Enjoy beating your chest instead of having an adult conversation.

It really has nothing to do with "how smart I am". It's more about how illogical your argument is. But i didn't expect you to get that part either.

It will be several more games before this defense is where it's supposed to be. I've already explained that. They just took a step forward.

But in your zest to throw out some rant I never expected you to actually follow the thread.

Your character assassination is something I expected from you.

I can understand getting upset. I read the game day thread (at least part of it) every week. That thread is so toxic with negativity and calling for heads. I assume you are talking about some of those people, not someone like Oober or Frank.

I specifically avoid the gameday threads. I'll read just about everything else, and I have never put anyone on ignore. The gameday threads are too much, though.

And to be fair - I from time to time get caught up in the hysteria of the moment. I'd hate to see how the board itself gets, so I avoid as well.

I didn't make a list so if they step forward and start defending it I assume they were one of the ones????

Like I said and will say I have no issue with discussions on any sort to[pic or issue, but firings set me off. This may sound strange but I sorta think we all should be upset with it.

The adults here understand what firings have meant to this team.... Lets hope non of us has a serious conversation on this topic any time soon ah?

" The adults here " ....

It's not that I don't understand where you're coming from. I do. IMO, the ridiculousness that has to go into a post where the conclusion is Woods (or anyone on this team, really) should be fired is just that. I just kinda take that as a commonly understood assumption. So from that common ground, your defending Woods and my criticism is kinda coming from the same place (in a way).

Similarly, I completely agree with you about the gameday threads. That's why I can't go in there at all (and I seem to have a pretty high tolerance for that).

For lack of a better place to put this:

Did anything come from his recent off-the-field incident?

Apparently not, lol....

You weren't suppose to read this...

I am sure the Browns don't make a move without reading your posts and getting your stamp of approval, wink wink..........

I think the fallacy is the conclusion that you play the defense the same way no matter your opponent rather than adjust the defense according to your opponents strengths and weaknesses. The "one size fits all" is no longer an approach good coaches use in the NFL.

You can't say things like that to Mac he is a special advisor to the Browns and of course all of us...................

Everybody throws their opinions around on here. Some thought the defense would be a finished product from week 1. But I won't mention any names.

last game, regardless of who we played, is a huge confidence booster for our defense.

nobody is expecting a 9 sack game every week. but 2-4 sack game is definitely doable, and QB hits are often just as valuable as sacks.