DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DEFENSE still wins championships...

I wonder if it’s just the emergence of JOK and Delpit to cover up LB warts.

I also noticed us yesterday bringing 5 more than i remember in the past

Good question. I imagine it has something to do with adding Delpit, like you and Purp mentioned. I think it also has something to do with adding JOK, who has been phenomenal. He and Smith are both coverage LBs and I believe they are now the starters. JOK has also emerged as a significant run-stuffer as well. So I think he has added a whole new dimension.

That's all just some observations and speculation on my part. I really don't know what the right answer is.

Agreed. Our coverage with the new guys is so much improved

I believe Joe Woods is a good coach and knows what he's doing. He made adjustments this week to fit the Vikings. That says something right there. He will probably use the same scheme against the Chargers who have the same type of O.

Yeah, I was glad to see some man-to-man coverage as well. I think the strengths of all our corners in college was man-to-man coverage, including Greedy, Newsome and Ward.

Herbert definitely looks like he's a QB on the rise. I hope we can continue to give him varied looks to exploit his inexperience while getting pressure with our front four on a consistent basis.

For anyone with access to the stats that are behind pay walls, how does the Chargers OLine rank as compared to Minnesota's or any others? Are there opportunities for us to exploit their Oline? I've looked at their roster and don't recognize ANY of the player names on their line, and I've noticed that they simply can't run the ball worth squat... hopefully, this means our chances are improved.

If we can fix this week's issues on the offense and get both lines hitting on all cylinders at the same time... Super Bowl.

Hopefully, we get Newsome back soon, but Greedy seemed to have stepped up yesterday which was another bonus.

And the next IR guy or roster bubble move, I'd like to see them sign Clay Matthews III for the duration of the season. I think it would help our LBers long term to learn from his experience and with JOK especially. I know he's not what he once was and may even be done, but my inner homer would really like to see this happen unless he's just washed up. Who knows, with teams keying on JOK (highest rated LB in the NFL!), CM3 could resuscitate his career for half a year of FIRE or at least spend his final NFL days in the orange and brown WHERE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AS A ROOKIE.

Chargers OL was not good in the past few years, but they really fortified it this past year in FA and the draft.

Not an easy matchup next Sunday. That’s why I thought winning against Minnesota was so crucial

Yeah, we're in for a real gauntlet over these next few games.

I doubt he wants to be here, and has been on record as not wanting to play in his father's shadow, but beyond that, not only do I doubt him being in football shape, I think we're done with the past and wishing for yesteryear. We're about Today and creating all new Legends in Cleveland. His father's legacy is his own, CM3 had a different path.


I'm sooooo stoked for Greedy and how he played. I have been vocal that I felt he wasn't all that, and definitely hadn't shown anything that warranted the hope & hype that went with him.... yesterday, he validated all of that. He played SOLID and I'm super stoked for it! To know that we are THREE DEEP in SHUTDOWN CORNERS is freaking INSANE. Then we add Hill to it in the Slot and it's like Woah!
Yes, QBs are still gonna get completions against that, but it certainly makes the task a lot tougher, especially with our pass rush; and that benefit is circular. That coverage ability helps the rush, and that rush helps the coverage. Once it gets going, it's like directing a reflection into a mirror, or setting up a feedback loop with a microphone and speakers.


IF we can get this Offense back on the rails and keep the roster generally healthy, there is nothing to stop us but ourselves.
Actually, including the current issues, we've seen that there's nothing that can stop us but ourselves. All of our issues this year are on our side of the street. KC didn't beat us, we gave it to them. We beat us. Our struggles with the Texans was much more on us than anything they did. Our terrible offense yesterday was ALL on us, 100%.

Only concerned about Arizona. We will beat the LAC and Denver. Ari, Bal, GB, are the only 4 games I am worried about losing at this point. Chargers and Pats could get lucky enough to beat us, but I doubt it. Any team COULD beat us on any given day, but I also doubt we will lay any eggs at this point or just collapse. Just not worried about those other teams we play.

I won't give the "I'm just focused on this week" schtick because I'm not the team, but honestly, I'm only really worried about this week, lol.... still, I think the Chargers are a team to worry about, and so is Denver and 'Zona.

Honestly, I think we need to worry about every team through to the mini-Bye. Everyone is scrappy right now. Everyone still has a shot and is still fighting hard, and some will start laying out just a little extra to try to get another 'W'.

The Chargers O is worrisome. Their D is suspect. They are vulnerable to the Run, big time, which of course plays right into our hands... but, we've seen plenty of times where our own Browns sucked against the run, but got up and put on a display of run stopping dominance for just one game. You can't just look at the stats and think that's what you're getting.

Denver's D is as legit as ours. They're showing themselves to be just as solid against the pass as the run. That's a problem, and our current O that we just trotted out the past two weeks won't do squat against them. I don't care how good our D is, that's a Loss waiting to happen.

Arizona's offense is otherworldly, even compared to ours, right now. With their middle of the road defense, that could easily be enough to take us down.


We have three games before that mini-Bye.
Going 2-1 is ok, even understandable, but 1-2 or worse is unacceptable, especially since we already know that our entire problem on offense is Us (QB) and not anything our opponents are doing.

Arizona offense is downright scary. Not sure how to stop them lol. I bet that NBC wishes they could flex that one to SNF

I just watched some video of Arizona vs Vikings, and I strangely felt rather calm about us facing them.

I think our defense can cover their WR's. I think we can go Man against them with Safety help. They don't have a run game, at all, aside from Murray scrambling time to time.

If the DLine can hurry Murray and contain his running, we just might see an incredibly opportunistic day from our D. The thing I noticed with Arizona v. Minny is that the Minny DLine had no interior push at all and the Ends got FAR upfield. On top of that, their CB's were TERRIBLE.

I need to watch how they handle the Rams. I know we have half their secondary, so that defense isn't what it was. I don't know anything about their DLine except that they have Aaron Donald. I did see that ARI finally ran the ball, but that is definitely an anomaly right now.

So, it appears that the Rams have a rather poor run defense. They're giving it up at 4.7 a carry. Actually, they have a rather poor defense altogether.. so, they definitely are NOT the defense they were last year. They're basically just Aaron Donald and some other guys. I mean, they gave up 50 yards rushing to James Conner, on top of the 120 they gave up to Edmonds. Arizona even let Colt Freaking McCoy rush twice!

Knowing that, I actually feel a LOT better about facing ARI than before.

Maybe it's my old Browns fan syndrome, but I'm worried about a lot of games, including the Bengals, as well. If our passing offense hadn't fallen asleep, I'd be less worried about LAC and Denver, but that's currently where the trend is.

I'm very impressed with how the D has performed recently, but we can't count on them to hold teams to single digit scores in every game. Next to Mahomes, Herbert is probably the most dangerous QB we will have faced so far. I know Cousins had done well, but I never felt like he had the "it" factor like Herbert has.

That's interesting.

LA definitely has that prince and pauper type roster. They put a ton of their cap into world class players and then the rest of the roster is pretty much JAGs.

People have tried over and over again to explain that it would take them time to gel. Now that they have started doing so, people are trying to figure out the mystery of why they're so much better.

Jel-ing does not equal playing with more aggression and more discipline. Playing tighter coverage on receivers rather than giving an 8 yard cushion - like they showed again Sunday - isn't jel-ing...it's play-calling and scheme.

The critics all along - with scant exception - were complaining over-and-over again about the scheme and the play-calls...complaining that we have all these new tools/athletes and we weren't using them. Actually using them does not equal Jel-ing.

Malcom Smith playing the "green-dot" and looking significantly better than the pre-injury Anthony Walker isn't jel-ing.

JOK getting more-and-more snaps isn't jel-ing...clearly that should have been the case from day one...Delpit getting on the field (finally) isn't jel-ing.

Every decent team will jel as the season progresses...communication will improve (unless the coach is a complete dolt)...guys will think less and react more (unless the player is a complete dolt). No critic of Woods doesn't understand that.

The critics of Woods know what they saw with a passive, undisciplined, soft, darn-near-prevent Defense and complained about it...it's quite simple really.

I'm happy he's gotten it figured out since halftime of the Texans game...but I won't give him credit for waiting on the Jello when the defense plays dramatically different than it did when the complaining started.

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here. You don't play a style of defense that your defense is not yet prepared to execute. That takes some time. Once they are capable of executing that defense, you run it.

Let's recap shall we? Posters kept telling you that it would take some time. That when the players were ready to run a more aggressive defense we would.

Now that it's actually happening the only straw you have left to drink from is, "Yeah it happened exactly the way you said it would but that's not it".

You make it sound as if Woods had no clue what he was doing and then suddenly the light came on in his brain. Do you seriously think people will buy into that?

I doubt there was anything to really figure out except whether or not the young kids were ready to step in and contribute at a high level. JOK & Delpit are a big, big part of the change, and I think he was easing them into it and getting their feet wet a bit at first. Without them, I don't think he can run this defense the way we are. I mean, we can, but it won't be as effective.

It definitely isn't like he had to figure out what works, the man loves an aggressive defense, so you don't have to ask him twice to bring heat, but his job is to bring home W's, and he does that the best way he & Ski see fit. In week 1, that was something much more conservative than we see now partly because of opponent and partly because of personnel and knowing that everyone knows their roles.

Guys are hitting their stride, now, though... we can expect them to keep getting better from here on out.

If they weren't ready to run it on Opening Day, why did they not play together in pre-season? If you remember, that was an equal part of the argument in the first place. If they needed more time to figure it out, why did they not actually work on it when they could in a pre-season game? That too is on Woods. The "light bulb" moment doesn't happen in 1.5 games either...he obviously and dramatically changed the way he was calling the game (thankfully and to his credit)....Woods started bringing more pressure and aggression...THAT'S been the difference.



Woods' defense didn't just get here in 2020. He has run it since he's been here and it looked no different in our first 1.5 games this year than it did last year.

Sending a 5th rusher is not complicated. This isn't jr high school football. Less-than-8 yard cushions on WRs is not complicated. Demanding discipline is not complicated. These guys are pros. New guys in Clowney, A Walker, M Jackson, JJ3, T Hill, Takk are vets...Garrett, D Ward, Greedy, M Smith, Takitaki, Wilson & MJ Stewart played this defense last year.

Those guys were ready - or should have been ready - on Opening Day.



Who said that? A straw-man somewhere? The complaints by the critics were very specific. Discipline is something that is coached. Scheme is coached. Aggression is in the player...if the scheme allows it.



Straw again? Put that thing back in your chest. Yet another straw man by you. Do you think people don't see that out of you time-and-time again?

Who said Woods had no clue? Again, the critics were very specific. The changes that Woods has made - and that most every critic on here has credited-him for - have included better discipline, more aggression and less soft coverage along with more pressure. The scheming is night vs day...I think he got much more questions about that than any Jello cooked up over a 1.5 game span.

Joe Woods: Our job is to teach these guys the scheme

Thomas Moore 6/18/2021
link

The Cleveland Browns offense is expected to be one of the league’s best in 2021 as the unit is returning every important player from a successful first season under head coach Kevin Stefanski.

The situation is quite different on defense after general manager Andrew Berry put the unit under a major renovation in the offseason.

Berry brought in defensive ends Jadeveon Clowney and Takk McKinley; defensive tackles Malik Jackson, Sheldon Day, Tommy Togiai, Malik McDowell and Damion Square; linebackers Tony Fields II, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah and Anthony Walker; and defensive backs Greg Newsome II, Troy Hill, John Johnson III and Richard LeCounte III.

The defensive unit is also welcoming back cornerback Greedy Williams and safety Grant Delpit after both players missed the 2020 season with injuries, and defensive tackle Andrew Billings, who opted out last season.

The man tasked with making all those parts work together is defensive coordinator Joe Woods, who while dealing with several new players does have the advantage of having his coaching staff together for a second season.

Woods was asked about all the new faces on Thursday and said that as long as the coaching staff does its job, he is confident everything will work out, according to a team-provided transcript:

“It is my job to go in there and our job as coaches to teach these guys the scheme, the techniques that we are using and to rep it. That is what the offseason is for and that is what training camp is for. You are going to have things that you are going to come across and adversity throughout the season, but as long as we can establish our defensive scheme and guys can execute, I feel like it will not be as much of a problem as people may think it will be. Again, there may be six or more starters [added to the roster], but I am excited about that just in terms of what we were able to bring in.”

The additions will allow the defense to create the type of favorable matchups in the secondary and along the defensive line that were not possible last season, according to Woods:

“Yes, dime package is a big part of what I was involved in in (former NFL defensive coordinator) Wade Phillips system in Denver. You are always trying to put yourself in a position where you have favorable matchups. When we go dime, we are putting more cover guys on the field, and we are putting more speed on the field. It probably will not be as much as I ran in Denver, but it will definitely be a lot more [than last year], especially on third down and maybe two-minute situations.

“There will be ways if we know we are getting a getting certain protections that we are going to work on a couple of guys, we can move guys around and create the one on ones that we want to create. That is what excites me the most is really just digging back into those packages when we have our pass rush unit out there in passing situations and doing what we want to do.”

Given that many of the defensive struggles in 2020 were due to things outside of the coaching staff’s control, it would be easy for Woods to point fingers. Given the opportunity on Thursday, however, he chose to focus on the road ahead:

“Last year, there was a whole lot of things you can say, but we have the mindset of no excuses and no explanations. Week in and week out you try to find a way to win. Just based on practice time and players available, there were certain things that we were not able to get to, but now moving forward, we have already started the process in the offseason of installing some new defensive packages and some new cover schemes, just so we can dictate the tempo a little bit more.”

The Browns have serious aspirations at making a run at the Super Bowl this season. A potentially high-powered offense will receive the majority of the headlines along the way, but it is the rebuilt defense that will make the difference between achieving that goal or ending another season in disappointment.

I agree. I understood the caution with KC. But Tyrod Taylor was 10 of 11 until he went out with a hammy and Woods didn't send pressure to the QB rookie 4th rounder until the end of the game...by Delpit who hadn't played in a year. That made no sense...and started the crap-storm.

It appears that the "problem" has been solved. Kudos to the coaches for getting that turned around.

Thanks for the article you posted Mac.

Looks like Joe has done a good job teaching what he wants and the defense is hitting on all cylinders and it's earlier then I would have thought given the defense wasn't all out playing together until the end of training camp.

Great job Joe, don't you think Mac?

Still fighting the good fight, I see.

I'll say one thing... I saw very little of the confusion in the secondary that was present previously. Outside of the first drive, I'm not sure I saw any. Corners also played well overall vs a very talented group of pass catchers. Rush defense continued to be excellent.

PPE trued to explain it to you. You just don't want to hear it. Woods loves an aggressive D. JOK is a rookie and Delpit might as well be. Getting them ready doesn't happen overnight.

You win. Woods sucked and had no idea what he was doing. Then suddenly a light came on and his head and he figured it all out.

Not anymore. I had an epiphany. Joe Woods had no clue what he was doing. All of last year he screwed up. The lack of personnel he had to run the type of D he wanted to install had nothing to do with it.

This year he just kept screwing up by running the same thing and the fact that many of the players were new and some of the key players he needed to implement that scheme were very young and inexperienced had not one thing to do with it.

He just woke up one day and realized what a screw up he was and this latest scheme we've been watching the past two weeks came to him in a dream.

I hope I have that right.

I think the intensity came from Myles calling them all out in a presser a day or three(?) before the Bears game. And from Myles balling out going 120%, the others followed suit. They could also be responding to the more aggressive play calling.

I agree with that.

What we are seeing isn't gelling.

It's woods getting his head out of his you know what and Myles lighting a fire under woods and the players.

I like that myles called them out in public then went out and and backed up his own talk.

In hindsight, I felt they played and Woods called a pretty decent game vs the Chiefs. I don't know what happened vs Houston, but the boys certainly woke up vs the Bears. The Vikings we're going to be a tough test, but the secondary played pretty tight, and Woods starting getting more aggressive (sending a 5th more often). Woods's timing on said play calls was perfect as well.

and we've done most of that in just two games

It's still gelling no matter if it morphs on it's own or takes players getting on other players ass..

There are 2 ways to see that, in terms of context.

I was just going to say....I'd love to see the same graph in two other forms. Weeks 1 & 2; Weeks 3 & 4.

Further, the QB time to release would be interesting too. Same weekly breakdown.

It was the play calling. Myles didn't implement a more aggressive defensive game plan because Delpit and JOK were ready to step up to fill their roles.

A good old fashioned pep talk helps if the team leader gets the players to buy in. That certainly could have helped. But if your team isn't prepared to run an aggressive defensive game plan that doesn't really change much.