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https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/myles-garrett-takes-dig-at-browns-coaches-after-patriots-rout/

We’ve got to go back to the drawing board and see how we can get better, see how we can scheme better, see how we can make adjustments on the fly,” Garrett said in his postgame press conference. “We never had a chance just because we didn’t make any adjustments on the sideline or when we had time to.”


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.

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Saw the presser on the Browns page.. Joel Bitonio did also, Stefanski said he had a talk with him in private. People say these players shouldn't speak out publicly at the podium after a disheartening loss... I say why not..the whole fan base.. tv viewers and highlight reels saw and showed the crap Woods put his players in to look like crap ! These players don't call coaches coach, they call them buy their name..it's a buisness and if a coach sucks..well look how most feel about Woods...

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Originally Posted by Dave
Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.

I think the players are realizing that Wood's scheme doesn't put them in a position to win. These guys are pros, many have been playing for years, under many schemes. I would think that they would have some knowledge of things that would work, and when things are not working, what would be a good adjustment. Constantly pulling good players off the field for the sake of "keeping them fresh", IMO, is a waste of talent. Sure give a guy a breather here and there, but having Myles and Clowney both on the sidelines at critical points in the game is foolish. Many players on many teams play a large percentage of snaps, some play them all. This constant rotation kills a players ability to see how they are being attacked and learn the tendencies while in game. A guy figures out how to beat his man, and has a string of good plays and is setting the blocker up for a move, next thing you know, he is being pulled off the field. I don't get it. IMO, the constant rotation is hurting them.

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Originally Posted by Dave
Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.


It feels like Freddie Kitchens all over again... I really think this team buys into the Media hype and they think it's going to be a cake walk because some people in ties say the Browns are great before the season starts..

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It is a fair comment. The Browns spent a lot to improve the defense and the results are mixed.

The pats were 7-9 on third down yesterday, and I have to believe that the defense is at the bottom of the league in 3rd down stops.

Giving up 3 90 yard TD drives is not going to win you many games.

Delpit, JOK and Newsome are keepers, McDowell was a find. Clooney, Jackson, Hill and JJ3 are better, it just does not make any sense.

Last year we all complained about Sendejo. Don’t know what to make of it.


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There is no reason why our D could look like they did against CIN, and look like that yesterday. It was like two different teams.
I really thought that the same scheme would work on both teams.
I watched yesterday's game with a "WTF?" look on my face all day.


As for the presser statements: I actually don't mind a little candor after a disheartening loss.


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Joe woods wants to try to outthink the rest of nfl with this 3 safties 2 linebacker crap. Look....just run a traditional 4-3. Its tried and true. Most teams still use it for a reason. Forget all this fancy crap. Cant think of his name but the defensive coordinator for hue jackson ran a very similar scheme. I think his involved a extra CB instead of a extra saftey. Both systems used only two linebackers. Our defense that year was terrible. Joe needs to realize if it ain't broke dont fix it. Just use a 4-3 damnit


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Outside of watching Walker trail plays I rarely even remember we have LBs


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. DPJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Good for Myles. There's no reading between the lines in what he said. Now that it's out there, one of them (Garrett/Woods) really has to go, I don't see Haslem putting up with that. Guess who's much more valuable to this franchise?


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Good for MG! Woods defense is a failure and shame on Ski for not demanding it change until it produces positive results. Maybe Ski should take over defensive calls and let Van Pelt call offense/ Win/win that I am ready to risk. This beating was inexcusable.
Without changes and different priorities, fixing use of analytics, getting competitive, expect more of the same from the same people screwing it up now. Lousy judgment in a 45-point run and loss. Players want a fair shake on the field; this group is crippled and and Woods is outcoached. So is it because he cannot or is it because he will not? Is Ski condoning it with his approval? If it is allowed to persist, then it must be fine. But not for locker room leaders it seems. They are candid, and I applaud them personally.
Say it out loud with me: "The time for gelling is over." Enough sugar-tongued platitudes and apologies and rationalizations. We are capable of better and should do so. Anything else is unacceptable. Who are we tanking for?
I am personally thankful to be in the basement. Because it is so bad in games as coached, that if there was anything lower and worse, then we would be in it. We are better than this if allowed to be. NJMO i suspect. flamingmad


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He's either trailing, pulling fruitlessly on the ball while dragging the runner FORWARD, or simply standing in the wash.

Why do exceptionally average-to-below-average Browns MLBs always end up being some kind of team spokesperson?

I'd rather have M Smith at MLB.

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My take is I laugh when players who play terrible come out and make indirect statements to their coaches (specifically talking about JJ3 here). Garrett is NOT one of those players. Thinly veiled jabs like this hit hard from someone like him. If Woods wasn't on the hot seat, it's gotta start feeling warmer when Garrett left this one out there.

It's weird, though. This D had put together 3 solid performances (1 against a struggling team (Denver), 1 against a competent team (Steelers), and 1 against a team that was hot (Cinci)). Losing is bad, and the season is slipping away, so why are we on the knife's edge in terms of the sky is falling when we have 2/3 of our division games left? Yes, I agree... something stinks.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/myles-garrett-takes-dig-at-browns-coaches-after-patriots-rout/

We’ve got to go back to the drawing board and see how we can get better, see how we can scheme better, see how we can make adjustments on the fly,” Garrett said in his postgame press conference. “We never had a chance just because we didn’t make any adjustments on the sideline or when we had time to.”


It's funny,, But I said the same thing during the game.. My wife and I were watching the game and she was all worried.. I said,, no worries, we'll make adjustments and get this under control... Whoops,, no adjustments at all.

I'd have rathered he kept his thoughts inhouse,, but I get the frustration he had to be feeling...

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MG is one of the team leaders and one of the best D players in the league. He has a right to speak out. He's earned it!!

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
https://nypost.com/2021/11/15/myles-garrett-takes-dig-at-browns-coaches-after-patriots-rout/

We’ve got to go back to the drawing board and see how we can get better, see how we can scheme better, see how we can make adjustments on the fly,” Garrett said in his postgame press conference. “We never had a chance just because we didn’t make any adjustments on the sideline or when we had time to.”

When you're winning everything is sunshine and roses. When you start losing and frustration sets in, you see things like this. We've seen it time and time again. The honeymoon is over and the more we see things like this the more things will unravel.


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Exactly Pit. And my worry: you can only play the “Let’s redeem ourselves” card so many times. We did against Cincy and were motivated. Pretty soon those calls will fall on deaf ears (my gut feeling is they already have now)


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. DPJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Sadly I think it's those "deaf ears" as you call them, that are right. Watching this team is like a roller coaster ride. And that goes for both sides of the ball. A team will never get anywhere without consistency. The only thing we seem to be consistent about is inconsistency.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Outside of watching Walker trail plays I rarely even remember we have LBs

I agree. He reminds me of Wali Rainer who made most of his tackles 10 yards down the field.

Walker is like having an extra coach on the field. Too bad he plays like a coach as well. That really isn't a knock on coaches, but most coaches weren't all that great as pro players. Just different skill sets involved.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
My take is I laugh when players who play terrible come out and make indirect statements to their coaches (specifically talking about JJ3 here). Garrett is NOT one of those players. Thinly veiled jabs like this hit hard from someone like him. If Woods wasn't on the hot seat, it's gotta start feeling warmer when Garrett left this one out there.

It's weird, though. This D had put together 3 solid performances (1 against a struggling team (Denver), 1 against a competent team (Steelers), and 1 against a team that was hot (Cinci)). Losing is bad, and the season is slipping away, so why are we on the knife's edge in terms of the sky is falling when we have 2/3 of our division games left? Yes, I agree... something stinks.

It is possible for a team to win all of their 6 division games, and still be in last place in that division. I think the Redskins did so about the year ... oh what year was that... I wanted to say 2002 ish but I'm thinking 1997 ish. The overall record of a team matters.


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I can understand Myles's frustration.

He knows the defense has the talent. I have been patient with Woods but that has run out.

There have been to many times where the defense called on given plays has been torched.

There have so many drives in games where we can not get a single stop. Long drives right down the field. Players out of position.
Players getting beat on patterns.

Third downs and red zone have been disaster. We have to many good players on this defense to get beat the way we have.

Myles saying it to the press is a bad sign. But someone has to say it.

To net it out: the team is underperforming. And it is up to the coaching staff to fix it.

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I saw somewhere that Jarvis is voicing some displeasure with the way he is being used.


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The Wali comparison is something I posted over in " Post Game " thread .. I didn't understand the signing when it happened in the off season. Team is so weak at LB'er.

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The pats were 7-9 on third down yesterday, and I have to believe that the defense is at the bottom of the league in 3rd down stops.
We are 5th from the bottom at 44.4%.

We are also the 5th best team in the NFL in ypg allowed. It sure doesn't feel like that and I think that is the inconsistency that disappoints people. I think a big part of our YPG being so good is that our ball control offense really limits the opponents number of opportunities in most games. That's the only conclusion I can reach when your defense is 5th in YPG allowed and 20th in ppg allowed.

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I can probably count on one hand how many times we blitzed so far this season. Our D made Mac Jones (a rookie) look like Tom Brady. No pressure on him, threw the ball wherever he wanted and it was caught. I don't like Woods cause when something isn't working, rather than try something else he keeps doing the same thing over and over. He needs to go. I am glad players are speaking up because this one coordinator is making them look bad when our D should look like they did against the Bungles every week. We have a lot of talent on D and they look like High School players out there. When a rookie QB puts up 45 points on you ,you need to fix something.

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I dont think that players calling out coaches is going to help the team. They should keep it inhouse.


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I dont think that players calling out coaches is going to help the team. They should keep it inhouse.


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Well, to be fair, you're probably down to your toes if you're looking at blitz totals. But I'm "up to me neck" in making every unlikely QB look like Joe Montana (except Fields, the one we blitzed all day). We have never done enough to make QBs uncomfortable since Garrett joined this team. Every DC hell bent on "bringing pressure up front" and letting the rest sort itself out. Most years with one of the worst secondaries in the league.

I've worried all year that it's some deep, devoted decree with analytics as its god and they just won't budge from it.
We know that some really bad things can happen if a QB can "beat" your blitz, we have the added threat of huge chunk plays with the amount of QBs that can beat your pressure with their legs.

But c'mon. You can not, in any way, convince me that adopting a way more aggressive approach could be worse than what we're watching. No way, no how. That's a threshold we crossed weeks ago in my eyes... made even clearer by our success when we let the hounds go. Delpit and Hill have put up highlights, JOK as well, with speed and precision.

It is mind-boggling (talking to you Rish).


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I agree.

The Steelers at least create doubt.

In our pre-snap it is clear most of the time we are rushing four. It makes it so much easier to double Myles.

There are only a few quarterbacks who can hot read a blitz. Bernie was a master.

After ten games it is clear to me we are underperforming with the players we have on defense.

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Some stats are much less important than others. Military phrase called "fog of war" for how battle results can be interpreted. I suspect that to some degree, Ski and the staff have a "fog of analytics" going on, and they are weighting things too much or not connecting the statistical dots right, and embracing the mistakes repeatedly. I want to see some more Van Pelt scripting or red zone. Just to bring some different perspective to measure. If gelling means more of the same, we have lumps a[plenty ahead, and some players will take the black eye that they might avoid. Hope the "fogs" burnt off.


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Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
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The pats were 7-9 on third down yesterday, and I have to believe that the defense is at the bottom of the league in 3rd down stops.
We are 5th from the bottom at 44.4%.

We are also the 5th best team in the NFL in ypg allowed. It sure doesn't feel like that and I think that is the inconsistency that disappoints people. I think a big part of our YPG being so good is that our ball control offense really limits the opponents number of opportunities in most games. That's the only conclusion I can reach when your defense is 5th in YPG allowed and 20th in ppg allowed.

I agree with your observations, this is why stats do not tell the whole story. The Browns are a weak third down team. They give up points, they don't give up as many points as others because of the ball control offense.

I suspect that the Browns are +30 minutes in time of possession as well.


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Time of possession is great if you can follow it up and stop the other team from scoring.


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Exactly. We have the ball for 38 minutes to score 27 point but opposing teams only need 22 minutes to score 41.


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With some of the potent, quick, high scoring offense in the NFL these days, time of possession is becoming a much less significant stat overall than it used to be.


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And the week before, against the Bengals, the tables were turned the other way.

Agree with Pitt in the "less significant" department. However, the brash differences every week are becoming a pretty good indicator of the absolute chaos built into the league from week to week. Good teams turn bad, and back to good, in a heartbeat.

KC has looked like the armpit of the league on several occasions, Mahomes running around like Chicken Little, yet it will be a surprise to nobody if they win it all. Bills put up 35-40 every week, JAGS hold them to 6. Denver starts 3-0, everybody hailing their great defense, lose four straight and then "sell" generational defensive talent. New England 1-3, now one of the best teams in the league.

I know this stuff goes on every year, but this year "ebb and flow" reads more like a stock market ticker.


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Originally Posted by WooferDawg
Originally Posted by DCDAWGFAN
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The pats were 7-9 on third down yesterday, and I have to believe that the defense is at the bottom of the league in 3rd down stops.
We are 5th from the bottom at 44.4%.

We are also the 5th best team in the NFL in ypg allowed. It sure doesn't feel like that and I think that is the inconsistency that disappoints people. I think a big part of our YPG being so good is that our ball control offense really limits the opponents number of opportunities in most games. That's the only conclusion I can reach when your defense is 5th in YPG allowed and 20th in ppg allowed.

I agree with your observations, this is why stats do not tell the whole story. The Browns are a weak third down team. They give up points, they don't give up as many points as others because of the ball control offense.

I suspect that the Browns are +30 minutes in time of possession as well.
Browns were 24th in the NFL last year in getting off the field on 3rd down... with our starters from last year having a full year in the system, we added Clowney, McKinley, Johnson, Walker, Delpit is back, drafted JOK and Newsome... and we have dropped to 28th.

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Let us not forget, that team had Sendejo...


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Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
Originally Posted by Dave
Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.


It feels like Freddie Kitchens all over again... I really think this team buys into the Media hype and they think it's going to be a cake walk because some people in ties say the Browns are great before the season starts..


I don't think any of us could/would have said that after the Cincy game.. I think it's more about Belichick doing his homework while the Browns didn't.

The Pats looked prepared,, The Browns looked unprepared,


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Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
Originally Posted by Dave
Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.


It feels like Freddie Kitchens all over again... I really think this team buys into the Media hype and they think it's going to be a cake walk because some people in ties say the Browns are great before the season starts..


I don't think any of us could/would have said that after the Cincy game.. I think it's more about Belichick doing his homework while the Browns didn't.

The Pats looked prepared,, The Browns looked unprepared,

I agree. It's not like Belicheck hasn't schooled more than a few NFL coaches in the last 20 or so years.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
Originally Posted by Dave
Sometimes I get the feeling that something is percolating under the surface in the locker room with this team.


It feels like Freddie Kitchens all over again... I really think this team buys into the Media hype and they think it's going to be a cake walk because some people in ties say the Browns are great before the season starts..


I don't think any of us could/would have said that after the Cincy game.. I think it's more about Belichick doing his homework while the Browns didn't.

The Pats looked prepared,, The Browns looked unprepared,

I agree. It's not like Belicheck hasn't schooled more than a few NFL coaches in the last 20 or so years.




Just like the Cinnci game is why I said it feels like Freddie Kitchens all over again... Remember..in case you don't Ill remind you of the 2019 season under Freddie.. week 4 going into Baltimore at 1-2, the Browns smash the Ravens 40-25... Then !! 4 losses in a row Then 3 wins in a row with the last being a win over Miami 41-24..We all thinking good stuff right ? 5-6 .. the Browns are going to the play-offs !! Nah ! 6-10 ! Right now It feels like that Freddie Kitchen season...JMO !!

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