DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield Part VII: The Dawg Awakens

Literally, you are the only person to so much as suggest this. I haven't seen anybody else state this except for you. The main reason is because Kurt Warner, in said video, explained the specific intention behind the video. In addition to not cherry-picking to build a strawman, Kurt Warner has, overall, been pretty critical of Baker (when, when taken with everything else, points to the overall issue of it's not just one thing that's grinding the offense to a halt).

You obviously missed the posters stating how that explained what was going on. Like that was the answer. If you wish to go back and look, you'll find it. I'm not going to go back and rehash all the people telling me that. I also notice out of everything I posted, that seems to be the only thing you have decided to take issue with.

Nobody said 1 half explains an entire multi-game stretch. Nobody on here is savvy enough to word that in a way that sounds like it makes sense. Their interpretations were closer to what it was that Kurt Warner came out and said the video was about.

And on your second point, you're more or less correct.

I didn't say it made sense or that those stating it were savvy.

From memory - the ONLY thing Kurt claimed in his breakdown - and his reason for doing it - was to respond to the notion that it was all Baker's fault that the Browns couldn't put up 3 more points or whatever it was that was needed to win the game. Kurt expanded and explained that in the video. It wasn't about any other game or anything else "Baker" - just the one game. Anyone trying to present it as something different has an agenda or is flat out lying.

That's what I kept trying to tell them. But you do mean the one half of the game, right? Because he only broke down one half of the game.

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These posts are hilarious. Baker Mayfield is a below average QB because of Baker Mayfield. There is no other reason. No matter the coach, scheme, players, you would be able to tell if he was a good QB. The amount digging and investigating that needs to be done to prove otherwise is all the evidence you need to know there is no otherwise.

I think Baker wants out and will try to get out this off season. MKC is getting her info from somewhere, and I think it's Baker's camp. I don't think he'll find any easy way out though and will play out his contract.

I hope he improves, has a great season, and can be the long term answer.

Quite the opinion you have. Now blended with some conspiracy theory too. Coming from such a fair and balanced individual I am sure that must mean it's true. I mean the guy who's hated on Baker and rushed to judgement more than anyone on the board - while anointing QB's like Burrows and Lamar. Love that you now think MKC is a ground breaking investigative reporter with credibility. And based on absolutely everything you have ever written your final sentence rings completely empty and hollow.

I can understand it's hard to find evidence of him being a good QB when you go into hiding whenever he's playing well. One only needs to look at the games that are occurring when you're not posting to find evidence of him potentially being a good QB.

I haven't heard of Baker wanting out, but I also don't really pay attention to MKC (she's getting her info from somewhere alright, just hope she wipes after). Seriously, dude? MKC? Not paying attention to her is like Browns Fandom 101.

Whenever I read your posts, the word vacuous comes to mind, for whatever reason.

This whole Mayfield situation is nuanced and there are a ton of different factors affecting performance, good and bad. For me, it currently boils down to this question at the moment.....

.....If I was Andrew Berry, would I be willing to fork over top franchise QB money for Baker? I have to think his answer to this question (at least for today) is a resounding "NO" based on the body of work and inconsistent play year-to-year. Now, maybe the team thinks that can pay above average QB money (not top $) for Baker and the team can still be successful, but I'm not sure that's the formula for consistently winning in the NFL these days.

I thought the upward trajectory of Baker going into this season was very promising and the ceiling was high. It just seems like he has plateaued. Again, it's nuanced and many factors are at play, but I'd be lying if I told myself it's far more due to external reasons outside of Baker's own performance.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Baker deserves top FQB money based on his career to date. And thankfully we have a 5th year option to exercise and that decision is not needed.

His salary next year is $18M - and we have been paying Keenum $8M (?) as a back up who can't outperform Baker when Baker has a torn shoulder and played like crap. I think next year is a no brainer.

Depending on what Berry and KS think - and what "excuses" and other factors THEY BELIEVE have impacted Baker - like injury and WR's not running correct routes etc - I would think a contract paying him an average anywhere between Garoppolo's $27.5M and Goff's $33.5M (in today's terms) would make sense. Obviously depending on salary cap and timing of when the contract is signed etc - that can impact his contract significantly.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

The Goff and Garrapolo contracts were handed out with the understanding that those 2 guys were and will be fQBs. So with that understanding and based on performance to date, I don't think that makes sense. Rams gave that to Goff, he fell off a cliff, and they unloaded him and his contract via draft picks.

As someone who does still have a bunch of hope for Mayfield after seeing his capability, I'm really glad we don't have to make a decision on him for another year.

Agreed. If we were forced to make a decision right now, the answer would have to be 'no'. The FA market for extremely inconsistent QBs has been way overblown, and we would be forced to massively overpay for a guy that (so far) we have needed to surround with top-tier talent to get the results we have so far.

Precisely. And those two contracts probably gave Berry caution in extending Baker this offseason.

I understand that rationale - but JG contract was handed out 3+ years ago

And it would be reasonable (to many) to argue Baker has outperformed Goff - or at minimum been the same 'frustrating' sort of inconsistent performer, with Baker having unique challenges ... Goff was jettisoned from the Rams and his contract was signed this year, I don't believe he got a true "FQB" deal. . . . the QB's around Goff's numbers like Wilson and Rodgers signed contracts 3 or 4 years ago. That makes a huge difference.

OBJ is gone. So which WR's are you accusing of running the wrong routes now? And once again, Baker played a great first half last week. So are you saying his injury bothers him "sometimes" when he is playing bad? Or are you saying that sometimes his injury isn't enough to have a major impact on his play and then sometimes it is?

Because there was nothing in his performance in the first half of the Baltimore game that indicated his injury greatly hampered his play. I guess it's probably time to shift gears and blame Stefanski for his play again now.

Let's see if we can get Mitch Trubisky. At least he grew up a Browns fan !!!!!

Just like Brady Quinn!

Another outside point of view..... You see, we can always find people that support an argument depending on which side you're on to try and bolster your beliefs.

This article is from a month ago but if anything, it's certainly heading more in the direction he is pointing out.

The Cleveland Browns may need to mull quarterback options beyond Baker Mayfield

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-clevel...ons-beyond-baker-mayfield-010932894.html

Now I'm not saying that I am in total agreement with what is stated in the article. I'm only using it as an example that if anybody looks around with a predisposition in mind, they find people out there which support their views.

That was a good article Bone and it does make a lot of sense. AD has his work cut out for him trying to acquire talent for our O.

Maven is basically a fan blog under the guise of a Sports Illustrated. Pete Smith is a Browns fan.

Seriously Pit. Go pound salt. I'm not interested and the board isnt interested in more BS back and forth.

As for my comment, it encompassed Bakers career. I spit out two random challenges, I could have mentioned Hue, or Kitchens or 4 OC's ... A torn shoulder....

Let it fking go. We disagree. It's okay to disagree. If you can't let it go... Find that salt.

He can't let anything go. Remember who you are replying to. he is an expert in football, economics, politics, and any other topic that comes up.

Go, pit. Call me out, lwl.

Maven is basically a fan blog under the guise of a Sports Illustrated. Pete Smith is a Browns fan.[/quote

I thought the article was lacking on substance. But it's an SI article, so dismissing the author in such a way is a little undeserved.

It’s not a Sports Illustrated article. It’s a Maven article on Sports Illustrated’s site.

PFF have always been massive BM fans...

That later stat went back 2 years, while the previous one didn't (?). I wonder if we're getting into "stats are for losers" territory here.

Take a minute and consider just who the "open" receiver might be for each of those QBs.

Yeah because depending on the receiver they are more or less open.

I should have spelled out my point better...looking at the passing grade there...pretty great company considering our particular "open" "talent".

When you have a legit stud "open", a higher passing grade just might be a little (or a lot) easier to obtain. Those QBs ahead of Baker on the list have some serious offensive pass catchers...us? Yeah...no. ie. Throwing to an "open" Kelce is light years from throwing to an "open" Hooper.

And Captain Dawgtalker, savior of the board comes in to add nothing to the discussion but attack me. #stalker #personal attack #mental obsession

You go boy!

Can't have spaces between hashtags bro.

Ah, I see. You think what he did in his first year should have some measure of his progress to date. Would you like a list of QB's who looked better early in their careers and digressed? You're not going to dictate my posting. arch has been trying that for years. His problem is he never actually reads or learns anything. So all he has left to do is put down anyone who has a basic grasp of what's going on by trying to label them as an "expert in all things". It's not everyone elses fault that he thinks he already knows everything and refuses to learn anything at this juncture in his life. Some of us actually read and are still trying to learn.

As for Baker it seems most have come to pretty much the same consensus even though we've arrived at that consensus in different ways. Most of us, me included, feel Bakers future with the Browns hinge on what he does next year. Not what he did years ago. Most seem to feel that if he does not make drastic improvements, this FO and many on this board don't see him as the long term future here.

It will be his third year in Stefnaski's system and I doubt this FO will look at Bakers production, completion percentage and fan excuses if he does poorly. He will go into the season healthy and we will all witness the evidence.

For someone else to pound salt, you will first need to pass it to them. Tantrums are not attractive.