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5. How do the Browns handle Brady Quinn now that Derek Anderson has played so well? There was a time, not too long ago, when I thought Anderson would have to move over for Quinn at some point this season. Now I don't see it happening. In fact, I can see Anderson's starting for this team next season if he continues to progress as he has. Let's face it: Cleveland has been searching for a solid starting quarterback ever since the franchise returned to the NFL in 1999 and Anderson -- whose 90.7 passer rating currently ranks 11th in the NFL -- looks darn good. The blessing here is that Quinn won't be damaged by a second season on the bench. Look what it did for Philip Rivers in San Diego, where he learned plenty while sitting behind Drew Brees. Plus, the Browns aren't taking a major financial hit by having Quinn on the bench. Because Quinn dropped to the 22nd overall pick in the draft, he received a five-year deal with only $7.75 million in guaranteed money. That deal increases to $30 million only if he reaches certain incentives that are tied to his actually playing. The more important question is what the Browns do with Anderson in the offseason. He'll be a restricted free agent and he's sure to have suitors. If the Browns have to pay big money to keep him, something tells me the Brady Quinn era is much farther off than we ever imagined it would be. web page just an interesting excerpt from an article on ESPN
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Whatever happens I'm just glad i dont have to decide...LOL
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a problem we're blessed to have. 
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Do what they did in GB. Aaron still sits behind Brett, was picked at about the same slot and seems fine collecting his check every week. Besides.. ONE hit to DA and we could be down to Quinn. How many QB's are already hurt this year?
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Quote:
Do what they did in GB. Aaron still sits behind Brett, was picked at about the same slot and seems fine collecting his check every week. Besides.. ONE hit to DA and we could be down to Quinn. How many QB's are already hurt this year?
I'm not a betting man, but if I was this is whats gonna happen, Da will be signed go into training camp as the starter and Quinn will have every oppurtunity to beat him out.
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Quote:
a problem we're blessed to have.
Yes and no.
It's like being married to someone, then having the affair with the more attractive option...while the wife has exceeded your expectations in every way imaginable...the mistress has the potential to make your dreams come true.
The only problem is, it's potential. There's no guarantee if you marry the mistress everything will be as good as the affair. Meanwhile, you're torn between two lovers, and you're eventually gonna have to choose.
Make sense?
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It's like being married to someone, then having the affair with the more attractive option...while the wife has exceeded your expectations in every way imaginable...the mistress has the potential to make your dreams come true.
...and that's a bad thing??.. 
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
a problem we're blessed to have.
Yes and no.
It's like being married to someone, then having the affair with the more attractive option...while the wife has exceeded your expectations in every way imaginable...the mistress has the potential to make your dreams come true.
The only problem is, it's potential. There's no guarantee if you marry the mistress everything will be as good as the affair. Meanwhile, you're torn between two lovers, and you're eventually gonna have to choose.
Make sense?
No. I do like how you are comparing the Browns to a dirtbag though. 
#gmstrong
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LOL he was joking around man..seesh...good analogy none the less... 
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Make sense?
So let me get this right, you're saying Quinn is the more attractive option but might not be as good as DA?
What's this about an affair though? That's where i'm lost, it's not like we're flip flopping. DA's been our starting QB. How have we ever switched to Quinn and thought about switching back?
I've got no problem looking into re-signing DA, but only next year before he's an UFA. Until then there's nothing wrong with having two QBs on the roster. In fact, unless Quinn is getting a good 1st round offer in two years, i wouldn't mind keeping them both on board the whole time. As someone said, QB's get hurt. With Quinn as insurance our season hopefully won't go down the tubes due to a QB injury.
I like DA, but i haven't bought into him enough yet to sign him to a big contract for next season. With that, we shall see what Quinn has got turning training camp and what he can do in preseason games against number 1's. We have him for like 5 years, and i've got no problem keeping him for all five as a backup or starter
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I feel it's only a matter of time before Quinn gets the nod. I haven't been too impressed with Anderson's accuracy unfortunately. I do think he was the better choice to play/keep though (when compared to Frye). I also think he's made some good decisions and more smart plays than I was expecting. He's also done a great job of stepping up into the pocket and getting rid of the ball.
Fortunately for us our OL is phenomenal and our receivers have done a great job at catching some of the horribly mis-thrown balls. If we had a legitimate #2 (who there was "no turning back" if we played him), I think we would have seen him on Sunday. DA wasn't looking so hot. However, maybe he is our QB of the future considering Manning threw 6 INTs last week and DA performed much better than he did :P
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1st String
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That is where the problem lies. Anderson looks great with what he has around him. He fits what we are doing with this offense. I believe any strong armed QB would do just as well in this circumstance. The problem is if we want to take the second step of the rebuilding process we need to look at his ability to make the dink and dunk passes and ability to control the clock with long time consuming drives. I have not seen that to this point. I look at this team and see a baby making it first steps (not a playoff team) and see Anderson as a really good backup QB (probably one of the best) but to go to the big show we need more than a strong armed QB. I honestly believe Quinn can give us both the long threat and the dink and dunk game. I look at Notre Dame and think what did they really lose from the last couple of years and the only thing I come up with is BQ!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I think Casserly on CBS pre game summed it up real well. 2 Million isn't a lot of money to pay a backup (Quinn). He signed a contract that was for 7.5 Million guaranteed, but the 30 million side was for actually playing so the Browns are in pretty good shape there.
It is just my opinion but I think that whatever DA can do with this offense BQ will be able to do better. I am not down on DA and I DO NOT want DA benched so the Browns can conduct a BQ experiment. I am satisfied that DA has done a great job, and I still think he can continue to get better.
MHO is that will likely try to sign DA before the close of business leading into the end of the season. There are a lot of benefits to actually getting a deal done before the end of the season, #1 the cap, and what a contract with a signing bonus and salary can do. We could obsorb some of the cap hit this year, and save space for later use by getting him signed before the end of the season. So I expect the Browns will do just that whether DA is in the teams long term plans or not. Will have plenty of suitors coming our way to try to make a deal. I just can't see the Browns from a cap space point of view not trying to get a contract signed by the end of the season, but I am no cap guru, and I don't know (Wished I Did) what the thinking going forward is within the Browns FO.
It is pretty interesting and hey it is the best problem I can ever remember the Browns having. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to make a decision, but the safe and in this case I think the smart thing to do would be to get DA under contract then explore the options that come available, and at worst you have 2 pretty good QB's under contract and on the Browns roster..
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Legend
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Some teams struggle to find ONE QB worthy of being a starter,,, we are blessed with TWO..
Right now, it's not an issue.. But it will quickly become one for the guy who isn't starting.. Both want to start.. so sooner or later, one of them is gonna want out... and who could blame that person...
But I think without question, if we need it, we can sit Quinn for another season...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
But I think without question, if we need it, we can sit Quinn for another season...
IF?? we are.....  FINALLY we have competant QB's....
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IF?? we are..... FINALLY we have competant QB's....
Yeah IF! don't be too quick to judge,,, we don't know how things are gonna shake out at all. So,, IF we need Quinn to sit, it's not the end of the world for next season.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I would be shocked if we sat BQ for another season !
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I'm pretty argued out on this subject....but
Great DA has a 90 rating and with the remaining schedule we have he should be able to beef that up and covet us some wins as well. All making him look good.
But DA is not making things happen. He simply is taking full advantage of being able to sit in the pocket, pump fake, check down, get out of some bad habits (locking onto WRs as his worst) taking advantage of some of the sick talent we got out there catching the ball.
This is not to berate him...actually he has surpassed my expectations of him and then some. There is a lot I like about him - Making it happen is not one of them.
He has major flaws that will prevent him from being great.
What all wish to forget is that DA simply is not accurate. He's the 29th out of 30 starters in the NFL regarding completion Pct. Alex Smith is the only one worse.
And its not cause our WRs drop the ball...en contraire - Our WRs have more than saved DA on several passes. Just this last game.
BE's TD pass (very usefull btw in gaining rating), KW2 broke up an INT down the middle in the 4th qtr...actually a good play. JJ made a great catch on a 2-3 yarder with time running out (better if he dropped that). And thats from this past game. That I can think of.
And its not cause he's throwing a lot of deep patterns. Actually a vast majority of his misses are short to intermediate passes.
BQ - will probably beat DA out in a competition last year.
1. DA does not do well in competitions....ergo Frye beat him out simply cause DA was that bad. So we let Frye go so that DA can function without pressure as now its apparent that our staff thought DA was the guy and the competition blew up in their faces when DA crumbled under the pressure of the competition with Frye.
2. BQ is no Frye...if we have a competition it is because we think BQ can do the job and if DA again crumbles or even if he doesn't...He won't get a 2nd chance as he did with Frye. In every weak area that DA possesses BQ happens to be quite good at. In every area that DA excels at - BQ is not far off.
3. We don't need two starting QBs...to keep DA here we will have to pay him starter money! Our OL has seen to this new experience for Brown's QBs. The use to get pummelled every game even if we kept the sacks down to a handful they would get pummelled on many throws. Now we go through entire games where our QB doesn't even get knocked down once. If this is what we got....BQ with Dorsey at the back up - while we groom a late round pick to become the future backup. Its fine.
4. DA is not a backup any longer. Teams will be lining up to obtain him. As mentioned our schedule looms perfect to garnish DA some great stats and wins.
5. There is always the fear of failure but our staff...Savage and RAC have never reacted on fear. They will trade DA and welcome BQ as our starting QB - IF BQ IS READY!
But in my wildest dreams our success is not because of DA pulling everyone else up. If anything its the other way around.
Lets reap the benefits while we can. DA will finish this season and I expect us to get a 1st and a 3rd rounder at the least (maybe more if we trade our rights to him???). BQ will be as good if not better - probably would have beaten DA out anyways. So we would be losing our Back up. But we gain 2 impact rookies. To add to our 2nd round pick and boltster our Needs for the 08 campaign.
Last but not least - We have no 1st rounder! The DA scenario is working out so great. We/I like him a lot - but he's not worth giving up the needed 08 additions to make us a dynasty, not when BQ is ready to take over.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All I know for sure is that my wife would pummel my arse with a 2x4...
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Quote:
In every weak area that DA possesses BQ happens to be quite good at. In every area that DA excels at - BQ is not far off.
How do you know this? Based on college and a couple of pre-season games? Ryan Leaf was awesome in college and pretty good in pre-season too. And NO I'm not saying Quinn is Ryan Leaf. 
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And NO I'm not saying Quinn is Ryan Leaf.
 
Alllllllllllll....you dont have to say it on this board....just put the two in the same sentance just once and it will live with you forever............... 
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And missing in this - how long does Quinn just sit there quietly after expecting to come in and be our QB savior? At some point he's going to say play me or trade me. And I would not blame him. All competitors want to play.
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Quote:
Quote:
In every weak area that DA possesses BQ happens to be quite good at. In every area that DA excels at - BQ is not far off.
How do you know this? Based on college and a couple of pre-season games? Ryan Leaf was awesome in college and pretty good in pre-season too. And NO I'm not saying Quinn is Ryan Leaf.
No one knows for sure until the guy actually gets into games, and has to play under pressure.
Alex Smith, Charlie Frye, Eli Manning, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Dave Ragone, (who many here pimped) David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey .... and the list goes on ...... all highly touted QB who did (or have done) little to translate their college ability to professional success.
Quinn could be the next Leaf .... or the next Peyton Manning .... or most likely somewhere in between ...... but how far in which direction is the question. If he's the next Manning, then 20 teams in the league missed on him ..... and conversely, if he's closer to the next Leaf ..... and we let Anderson go to move him up ...... then the front office types won't have jobs for long, because that would be a death blow to them. (and long term success for the team)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would be shocked if we sat BQ for another season !
Yeah,, me too.. But what are you gonna do? What if...BIG IF, DA continues to thrive and grow and do the job well... do you dump, trade or sit him in favor of the unknown?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm pretty argued out on this subject....
Get in line *L*
Just take my stance on the subject, as it makes the most sense: Wait and see how Anderson does the rest of the season, let the season end, THEN shock the dead horse back into life so we can beat it again, but this time with a clearer picture, hehe.
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He has major flaws that will prevent him from being great.
What all wish to forget is that DA simply is not accurate. He's the 29th out of 30 starters in the NFL regarding completion Pct. Alex Smith is the only one worse.
And its not cause our WRs drop the ball...en contraire - Our WRs have more than saved DA on several passes. Just this last game.
I left the part about Alex Smith in there just so I could throw some cold water at yet another system QB who didn't have the game to make it in the pro's. 
Now the real reason I quoted you there is to revisit a sore that scabbed over and healed.
The very reason I chuckled earlier in the year regarding us getting a 1st and a 3rd for Anderson didn't have anything to do with his rating or his successes, but rather because of the things that he still doesn't bring to the table.
Like you, I'm not baggin' on the guy (well, I guess I kinda am) but rather just being honest with what he does and doesn't bring to the table. He's never going to do anything if he's flushed from the pocket. It takes an accurate QB to do that, and he's not accurate. Because he's scatter-armed, teams who are considering investing a 1st and a 3rd AND a $30 million dollar deal to Anderson as their future starter will have taken apart every single play he's made over his career and come to one conclusion: He isn't as good as his numbers suggest.
I can make a great arguement that we have THE best pass blocking unit in the entire league. Most other teams in the league also can't boast of a combination like Edwards and Winslow (knowing that a TE is a QB's best friend).
The only thing that would make me think teams would be dumb enough to invest that combination of picks and money revolves around the lack of QB's in the league. That could lead to a team becoming so desperate that they gamble everything on Anderson (wow, how desperate does that sound?  ). Unfortunately, this years QB class is very, very deep, if not heavily loaded at the top. There isn't one guy that's a "can't miss" prospect, but inevitably, one or two guys will wow the scouts and go higher than they should. This draft has a ton of QB's that'll go on the first day, which could keep a team from wanting to go after Anderson with a high pick. They'll know he's limited as a QB.
On another note, 'Bone talked of giving Anderson a new, long contract to be our backup. HELLO?!?!?!?
Anderson won't sign a nice, team-friendly contract that makes it easy for him to be our backup He'll want a huge deal that guarantees him the starters gig, or he'll simply wait until he can force his way out of town. I'd do the exact same thing.
So the only choice for the Browns, assuming he stays healthy and plays at this level for the rest of the year, is to either sign him to a long-term deal to be the STARTER, or tender him. there is no giving him a contract that'll keep him around as the backup to Quinn.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Eo, you mention that Anderson's completion percentage is very low. But, when you consider this, you must take into account the fact that DA throws a lot of balls far down the field. The majority of them aren't real short passes.
Toad, good post, I agree with everything you said.
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Quote:
The only thing that would make me think teams would be dumb enough to invest that combination of picks and money revolves around the lack of QB's in the league. That could lead to a team becoming so desperate that they gamble everything on Anderson (wow, how desperate does that sound? ). Unfortunately, this years QB class is very, very deep, if not heavily loaded at the top. There isn't one guy that's a "can't miss" prospect, but inevitably, one or two guys will wow the scouts and go higher than they should. This draft has a ton of QB's that'll go on the first day, which could keep a team from wanting to go after Anderson with a high pick. They'll know he's limited as a QB.
Ahh but to play devil's advocate...
Take a look around the league and a look at the young QB's in recent history who aren't doing too well...
Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, etc. haven't played too well.
That right there might scare a few teams into throwing a first and third at the Browns for DA (assuming he plays like he has down the stretch).
Whether you agree with this or not, the results speak for itself: DA is the best YOUNG QB who's about to hit the market. If you're a GM and need a QB, would you take a chance on a 1st round QB, not being sure how he's gonna pan out, knowing it will take a couple of years to develop him? Or do you throw a 1st and a 3rd rounder to the Browns for DA, knowing that if you protect him and give him weapons, he WILL produce and you won't have to worry about "growing pains?" Is the risk/reward or boom/bust of a 1st round QB enough to scare GM's into seriously considering DA with a 1st and 3rd? I absolutely think so.
Sure, Grossman's gonna be out of Chicago, McNabb might be out of Philly, but Grossman sucks and McNabb is getting up there in his years.
GM's go gaga for big armed QB's, and given the results that have occurred this year (yes, you can explain all of DA's deficiencies to me...believe me I tell them to my friends and they look at me like I'm crazy), I HAVE to believe he's gonna get an offer on the market, just given the shortage of QB's and the risk involved. At least with DA you know what you're getting: Protect him and give him guys who can get the ball and he will put up TD's at a rapid rate and go down the field.
And unlike you, I'm not too high on this year's QB class. I actually haven't been high on any QB classes since 2004, in fact the QB I've been highest on since Roethlisberger (which is why I was so sick when the Steelers got him...) is ironically, Brady Quinn.
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LOL, how quickly we forget pimping Troy Smith at #3.
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Because he's scatter-armed That anything like scatter-brain?? 
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I would be shocked if we sat BQ for another season !
If we resign DA why would that be so shocking? When a team has a QB that's doing well, regardless of the system, and wins are producing; you don't change the field general. I believe that sitting Quinn will only increase his understanding of the game and field knowledge to the point where he has the potiential to be a really smart NFL QB and not make many boneheaded decisions. Next to his arm, a QBs intelligence is his strongest asset. Too many teams throw ill prepared rookies into games where they get slaughtered and carved like a Thanksgiving turkey.
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Considering DA is a RFA and after having success this year will want to be a starter, yes, it would be shocking if we re-sign him.
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Whatever happens I'm just glad i dont have to decide...LOL
you and me both.
and i'm just glad that we don't have boneheads running this team
assuming anderson finishes out the year, healthy, and puts up numbers similiar to what he's already done, plays somewhat decent in a possible playoff game, i have complete and total faith that phil savage and his people will do the right thing.
while anderson has done well, i do think that a lot of it is tied to the play of offensive line, as well as the breakout season of braylon edwards, i think a lot of guys could flourish in that situation...
the worst thing that could happen, and it comes across everyone's mind, is that anderson leaves, quinn comes in, and is total garbage... while i don't see that happening, it's certainly possible, but on the other hand, what if we gave anderson a huge deal, and next year, he plays like garbage? or what if the line isn't as good, and he doesn't have all day?
there is no right answer, because none of us really know...
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One other thing is that all of the Browns get to see Quinn in practice every week with the Scout team. They also got to see him run with the 1s during the bye week.
They know far more about his progress (or lack thereof) than we fans do.
This offense is unique though:
Very Good LT and pass blocking line
Starting WR/TEs 6'3, 6'3, 6'5
A legitimate threat at RB
It's a good team built around the QB. I'd like to see Quinn jump in sometime soon.
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Quote:
GM's go gaga for big armed QB's, and given the results that have occurred this year (yes, you can explain all of DA's deficiencies to me...believe me I tell them to my friends and they look at me like I'm crazy), I HAVE to believe he's gonna get an offer on the market, just given the shortage of QB's and the risk involved.
There's a major difference here Ammo...
GM's around the league will breakdown ALL OF DA's THROWS...ALL of em'...
I'm sittin' at the bar Sunday...A Bears fan's sittin' next to me...He says The Browns should lock up Anderson NOW...
I asked him 2 questions...
1) IF u were GM of the Bears would u want him for a 1st rounder in 2008 (RFA Tender of 1st rounder)...His response was a QUICK YES...
2) Do you WATCH any Browns games play for play???...His response was a QUICK NO...
MY QUICK response was WORRY ABOUT GROSSMAN CAUSE U HAVE NO CLUE...
Forget the 1st and 3rd tender...Ain't gonna happen...
I'd bet anything we tender him with a 1st and ONLY a 1st...And that's IF he continues as he has against the weak teams we have left...And then there's NO GUARANTEE any team will be willing to give a 1st rounder for him...1st round picks in the NFL are GOLD...Anderson IS NOT gold...
I'd also bet he plays for US at that same 1st round tender salary next year...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
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The very reason I chuckled earlier in the year regarding us getting a 1st and a 3rd for Anderson didn't have anything to do with his rating or his successes, but rather because of the things that he still doesn't bring to the table.
And yet,, there will be someone that will say,,, "we can fix him" and look only at those things he does well..
Go ask San Francisco fans what they think of DA.. man they are just salivating over the possibility of getting a guy like him and, the fans anyway, don't seem to mind giving up a 1st and 3rd to do it..
Thats the fans... not the 9ers front office by the way. So don't take that as anything important or likely.,.
DA does some very good things., throws a very nice long ball.. and does it quickly (except against Pittsburgh that is) and he plays poised. Teammates seem to rally around him and for him.. so from a leadership standpoint, he has something on the ball.,. Not to mention he's tall and has a rocket launcher for an arm...
So what we may perceive as a weakness in his game, others may not..
Like you say Toad,, let it play out. let's see what kinda feelers are tossed out to Savage.. We may all be surprised...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
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the worst thing that could happen, and it comes across everyone's mind, is that anderson leaves, quinn comes in, and is total garbage... while i don't see that happening, it's certainly possible, but on the other hand, what if we gave anderson a huge deal, and next year, he plays like garbage? or what if the line isn't as good, and he doesn't have all day?
And the best that happens is we trade DA or someone makes him an offer and we get a first and third (or whatever a team is willing to give) and Quinn becomes Payton Manning. And then the players we get end up being all pro. Quite a bit of difference.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
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Quote:
the worst thing that could happen, and it comes across everyone's mind, is that anderson leaves, quinn comes in, and is total garbage... while i don't see that happening, it's certainly possible, but on the other hand, what if we gave anderson a huge deal, and next year, he plays like garbage? or what if the line isn't as good, and he doesn't have all day?
And the best that happens is we trade DA or someone makes him an offer and we get a first and third (or whatever a team is willing to give) and Quinn becomes Payton Manning. And then the players we get end up being all pro. Quite a bit of difference.
this organization deserves a break like that, i mean, seriously, don't we as fans deserve that?
that'd be awesome if san fran gave up their first (which will be mighty high) for DA
we could get glenn dorsey...
or maybe a darren mcfadden
or we could get overzelous and draft jake long to play the right side (lolz)
i dunno, i have a hard time believing we are going to get a first for derek anderson
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
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I agree. I don't think that DA is worth a first rounder. But, hey if some team is dumb enough to give us a first rounder and a chance at Dorsey, McFadden, or some other stud, I'll take it.
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All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Oct 2006
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FYI, San Francisco can't sign DA at the highest tender level, they have no first round pick. Instead, New England has it, which really sucks. A potential undefeated team getting a probably top 5 pick. Ugh.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 7,189 |
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i dunno, i have a hard time believing we are going to get a first for derek anderson
Ever since Ditka gave up his draft for Ricky Williams I have believed anything can happen.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum ESPN: Riding the QB carousels
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