tough because we dont know what holes get filled/created by Berry in FA.
if we roll with the most likely scenario that Baker is our guy, then im trying to see who's the best FA we can get for WR and DT. i think CB, OL, and DE's are depth positions and can be filled in the draft/back end of FA.
on offense the biggest "need" would be a big body WR. Baker would benefit from a big catch radius weapon. we have big targets at the TE spot but i think we really need a 6'4-6'5 WR. we need more DT's, so who's the best FA's on the market for that, or we could possibly trade for?
depending on that is where we should decide draft strategy. i dont know if it would be beneficial to trade up or down. staying where we're at would give us a solid DT or WR, which would be the biggest need. i'd lean toward DT simply because we have to sure up the trenches on that side of the ball. Oline can be addressed in the middle of FA/draft for depth purposes. we're good at defensive back. maybe if there's a big body WR that has a high ceiling but doesnt get drafted in the top 10, so we trade down to 11 from 13 to make sure to grab him?
but a serious trade down from 13 to top 7 would - i hope - mean we're eyeing one the best DT in the draft. this team's biggest need is somebody in the middle creating chaos. i feel like Garrett and Clowney just need consistency in the middle to really eat.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I think, in terms of need, we are 'in the red' at both WR and DT.
If we started the season now, our WRs would be DPJ and Schwartz (I'm making 2 fairly safe assumptions here, obviously). I think this calls for 2 not-cheap FA moves, plus at least 1 somewhat legit draft pick. IMO, I would be disappointed if we came out of FA and draft and Schwartz is still penciled into a starting job.
DT - We've got Togiai, Malik, Day, and Elliot (I keep forgetting about him). I'd say we have 2 (optimistically) starters in there, needing at least 3, plus some depth. *listing those out doesn't seem like DT is as bad as I thought when I started writing this
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
You don't have a Myles, Trevor, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson. Those types just do not seem to be there.
The receiver I love is Drake London. He is that big target. He broke his ankle but is expected to be ready to go. When he played. He dominated. He was the offense. At 6'5" he is like a TE wide receiver. A former very good basketball player who posts guys up as a receiver. He does not lose 50/50 balls.
I don't think Berry places DT as a priority position. He will do as he has done regarding DT. Draft guys in the mid rounds and sign free agents on short deals to patch holes.
DE is a a different story. He will invest big for pass rushers. And he wants depth there as well. So, IMO he will go hard after Clowney. If the medical is bad on Takk. He will go after another guy like him. And if there is a DE they rank high and he is there at 13. He will grab him.
I don't know what will done with Jarvis? I really don't.
I do think he will sign at least one FA receiver and it will be a high value guy. Chris Godwin, Mike Williams, Allen Robinson, Michael Gallup.
Pick 13 will be BPA at DE, WR. Depending upon who they sign in FA.
I don't think Berry places DT as a priority position.
Just my thoughts as an aside, but I think Berry places priority on positions within the scope of his coaches' schemes. If the D-Coord and HC have a lower value on DT, then Berry does. If they feel that a premier DT is what makes things tick, then Berry values it more. I think he is smart enough to know that the coaches are the chefs and he is the ingredient shopper and he needs to take it from them on which spots they can skrimp and which ones they should splurge. Beyond that, they all have said numerous times that they work together when reviewing roster moves; nothing is done in a vacuum.
As for Trade Up or Trade Down..... it's just way too early to even make a real guess, I think, and I also think that with how weak the top of this Draft class is shaping up to be, a LOT of teams will be shaping their draft strategy based on what they can get done in Free Agency.
If the QB class is as weak as folks think, then there's a chance that Pitt is able to sit still at 20 and still get a QB. I mean, they got Ben at 12, so at worst they only need to trade up maybe 10 spots. Again, though, if the class is as soft at the top as we're saying here, then you will probably see a bunch of the more stable/established teams try to trade back with the teams that are in rebuild mode and have plenty of draft capital; the teams that need more bodies and are trying to get younger.
Probably a bigger factor that we need to look at as we head into free agency is teams like Tampa Bay and New Orleans; teams whose runs are done and will be needing to shed massive amounts of cap space to rebuild. Teams that are WAY over are Green Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, Rams. Then there are teams like Bills and Chiefs that have a little space, but are VERY tight up against the cap. These are teams who will be shedding contracts and potentially be open to trading some players. If the right player(s) are made available, this *may* be a better use of our draft picks.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
This isn't a great draft, it has a bunch of decent players but lacks the blue chippers. It's the kind of draft where it would be better to trade back an acquire more picks in the 2-4 round range or even picks for next year.
However, the cost to move up is really stiff. Washington is mocked with Willis at 11 on a number of Boards.
If he were to drop to them they would take him. But the cost to go from 20 to 10 would cost way to much and the risk is high.
Trading back for the Browns would be an option. However, finding a trade partner may be really hard. I just don't see teams in this draft wanting to move up.
Well, since not many will want to trade up due to the complete lack of blue chippers, the cost of doing so will likely be lower than typical. Not by a large margin, but enough.
Teams that want to move down need a team that wants to move up.... they have to decide if they're better off paying a kid based on where they're currently slotted, or can they get him a few picks later, save a little cash, and still pick up an extra pick somewhere? Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Probably half the league will want to move back during the 1st round. The meat of this draft is likely in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, though, and that is where you will see more trades. It's also where you may see lots of moving back in the first in exchange for 2023 picks.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Even though the draft is short on blue chippers there are still some pretty good players in the draft, someone may want to trade up to get a certain one of those WR's that best fits their scheme or if they need a OC they may want to trade up to secure Linderbaum as he's a pretty good player and the only OC in this draft that I see as a starting material and someone always seems to trade up for a QB.
I've looked back through the last few drafts and it's hard to find real "premium" for a team trading down from middle of the pack.
LAST YEAR: Jets and Vikings: The Jets traded picks No. 23, No. 66 and No. 86 to the Vikings for the No. 14 pick and the No. 143 pick. The Jets used the No. 14 pick to select USC guard Alijah Vera-Tucker. With the 23rd pick, the Vikings drafted Virginia Tech OT Christian Darrisaw.
2019: The Denver Broncos traded their 10th overall NFL draft pick to the Pittsburgh Steelers on Thursday evening. In exchange for the pick, the Steelers sent the Broncos their first-round pick (20th overall) second-round pick (52nd overall) and a third-round pick in 2020. (Steelers drafted Devin Bush)
About the only scenario I see as a no-brainer is highlighted. It would be very hard to turn down those assets. The Saints were lambasted for that trade at the time. One of the reasons for the expenditure is that fact that four QBs had already been drafted, pushing a lot of talent (and the competition for that talent) down the board.
I guess there is a chance that a team will pay dearly to move up and snatch a QB, and we're the lucky recipient of their zeal, but that is about the only scenario that fits this year... and the QBs are few and far between.
As for as the WRs?
A team would want to move in front of us, in a trade with another team, since we are the first team that's very likely to take a WR, if one has already been drafted, that just makes the point even more true.
You mentioned Drake London the other day, I am intrigued by what I’ve been reading since. I usually don’t like taking a WR in the first round but this might be a year that we have to.
WR is the greatest area of need and our draft slot is intersecting with two important factors... Most of the teams in front of us have "bigger fish to fry" and there is a lot of talent at WR available.
Most mocks have us taking the first WR off the board. So, you don't have to do anything cute to get your guy. If I'm GM, I'm crossing my fingers that the mocks hold true and grabbing Burks... If Burks is gone, I'm fine with London. Can't really screw this up unless you try.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
We should get a shot at the top three receivers in the draft.
Most mocks have us getting the second receiver. Hard to say who will go first.
Some love Wilson. Some my prefer Burks. I like London. However, I would be good with any of the three. They are different guys.
My preference is London because I love his game. At 6'5" he is not that quick burst separation type. Wilson is plus Wilson is a precise route runner.
Burks has strength and speed plus enormous hands. Like he needs special gloves. Huge upside guy.
London just takes the ball away from anyone who tries to cover him. He high points the ball and he shields with his size. He has a giant catch radius. He has played the slot and the X. Versitile, smart player with very good YAC.
I think, in terms of need, we are 'in the red' at both WR and DT.
If we started the season now, our WRs would be DPJ and Schwartz (I'm making 2 fairly safe assumptions here, obviously). I think this calls for 2 not-cheap FA moves, plus at least 1 somewhat legit draft pick. IMO, I would be disappointed if we came out of FA and draft and Schwartz is still penciled into a starting job.
DT - We've got Togiai, Malik, Day, and Elliot (I keep forgetting about him). I'd say we have 2 (optimistically) starters in there, needing at least 3, plus some depth. *listing those out doesn't seem like DT is as bad as I thought when I started writing this
I think DT is in the same boat as WR. No matter who we have we will have 2 starters. The question is could our starters be starters on other teams? I say no.
It is fairly easy to find decent receivers in FA and in the draft. The 2nd round receivers expected aren't that much of a step down from the best in the 1st round.
I guess what I am favoring is get a DT in round 1 and a receiver in round 2 and another in FA. As for free agent DT's, those guys are hard to find. Teams don't let them go very easily because they are hard to find. You end up with old guys who are wearing down or you end up with guys like Billings.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
The thing about London to remember is that he is a full year younger than Burks and Wilson; if past drafts mean anything, this is important to our FO, especially on early round picks.
London, being so young, still has room to grow and fill out.
For me, I'd love to see London or Wilson in the first round, or a DE. I just don't see a DT in this draft worthy of our pick.
Opinion 4. Winning the April Trophe, that does not exist. Whoa the Browns could have the best draft in the world, again, while often finishing in 3rd or 4th in the division.
Trade up? Trade down? I like it!, Up to 1, then down to 4, Pick at 4, ... the net: could be a value gain, and the Browns would make a strong case for that April trophe that does not exist. (Another year, another year.)
If we have our choice of the best WR in the draft at #13 - which is a real possibility - I would be very much in for that.
I watched more Wilson last night - guy is just flat out great at getting open and selling his route mis-directions. He is still my #1. Burks has tons of potential but I am not 100% sold yet. London is a big, fast WR that just seems to get open and catch the ball - he seems like he's going to run less routes with precision, but is that big target that can be the constant deep threat.
Wan'Dale Robinson who you mentioned in the other thread sounds like a great fit and replacement for Jarvis if Jarvis is gone. Great hands, slot receiver who is great fit for a PA offense. As you say I am sure there are others, just not sure there is another Wilson or London in the draft. I could be happy sliding 6-10 places and taking Olave too. Not as amazing a route runner as Wilson but damn close, faster I think and 1" taller.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Stay at 13 and take Burks...if he's there. He competed in the SEC...the conference of the two best teams in college last year and regular NCAA Champs. The first time I saw that guy in a game I was stunned. He produces all over the field.
London is intriguing...as he should be while playing in a defense-less conference that he's in. Too skinny for my taste when Burks is standing there.
There are (3) buckeye WRs to consider. There are a lot of terribly weak teams in the Big Ten to feast on...with Michigan being the conf Champ last year when they weren't even a speed bump in the playoffs. I don't like the size of any of the Buckeye receivers...of those who will be in this draft anyway. If I had to take one, it'd be Wilson.
I'd also like the Browns to figure out a way to get Jameson Williams from Alabama. He won't be ready on Opening Day...but he's going to be very good IMO.
I'd also like to see DJ Chark, Breshad Perriman (yes him...he's only 28) and Braxton Berrios (or C Kirk) in FA. Do-able and gives us lots of options in the draft.
Trade up, this comes down to an Individual player that we are targeting and they are a steal at this point of the draft and coming close to our pick so we must trade up to get him. Berry does like to do this as he has done it in the past.
Trade Down, this would happen if the draft is not that dynamic on individuals that stick out above and beyond but the draft would have several solid players within a realm of 20 picks so why not get two of these picks by trading down.
Both scenarios have to be close to the draft and planned with multiple options of who what and where.
So far I have been pleased with Berry's methods and decisions to build this team. Its not easy there are HITS and Misses all the time.
jmho... Oh and been waiting for this forum to come into fruition!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
That could be the problem. Most teams trade up in round 1 for a QB. Next year is the year to get a QB. Teams might be eager to hold their picks and be seeking to trade down themselves.
I don't see any way we trade up in round 1...well, ok, there is always a chance. Let's say slim chance.
I could see us look to trade up back in to round 2, or possibly just up in round 2 if see have a guy we feel we just have to have. Round 2 can be geared a little bit more towards needs if we haven't been able to get much done in FA.
Maybe it is for a WR we didn't draft in round 1 or some DT.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I agree and also have a lot of trust in Berry .... he isn't going to nail every draf and at some point he's going to miss on 1st and 2nd round players as well as elsewhere in the draft. Statistically it is impossible not to - but he's really shown an adeptness to trades and player acquisition to date. It feels different adding to the team and building for the future with Berry than it has in the past.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I agree and also have a lot of trust in Berry .... he isn't going to nail every draf and at some point he's going to miss on 1st and 2nd round players as well as elsewhere in the draft. Statistically it is impossible not to - but he's really shown an adeptness to trades and player acquisition to date. It feels different adding to the team and building for the future with Berry than it has in the past.
That is why I am wary about a receiver in round 1. If you look at the hit rate for the position, it is pretty darn low.
I like that 1st rounder to be a "hit". You are far more likely in doing that by staying away from receivers. I don't mind if we do, I just worry about the elevated risk in doing so.
None of the receivers in this class are as good as Chase, so if we think we are going to get our Chase, we are starting out a loser.
As for which receiver, I respectfully disagree with Wilson.
From what I have seen of our passing game and the way Baker throws, it's not so much a deep attack and Baker tends to throw the ball to go up and get it. I am thinking we need a more physical outside receiver over a sleek WR.
I'd take Burkes for the reasons mentioned.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I'm a little torn on who I would select at WR if every option was available to me. Much like you I'm big on London. My only concern is he seems very lean for his height. I'm not sure why it bothers me because he's very Randy Moss like in stature only a little taller and a little heavier. The physical stature of Burks makes me lean in that direction at the current time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I guess I have a little different take on both Peen and Bone - I see Baker's success with a somewhat average receiver like Higgins, and when he was playing his best - throwing WR open by releasing before cuts are made and heads are turned because of his accuracy and anticipation/trust in a WR being in the spot at the right time. It's the reason I believe there was never any chemistry with OBJ. To me seeing Wlison's advanced route running and ability indicates something that plays to Baker's strengths and something that translates to the NFL where simple speed and size and athleticism that worked in college are not guaranteed to work. London I can also see - because Baker showed ability to throw catchable bombs to the likes of Perriman and Calloway ... And London is taller and looks to have great body control. He might be Megatron-esque? idk.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I think Burks is going to be a combine sensation and a 6'3" WR running a 4.3 is going to shoot him up the boards. But when I watched some highlights and reviews - he seems very raw in route running with rounded routes and a lot to develop. I mean 6'3" and 4.3 speed translates to immense potential. But ... Like last year it will be an interesting 6 weeks.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I can see Berry Trading down especially if 3-4 of the Top WR's are still available ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I guess I have a little different take on both Peen and Bone - I see Baker's success with a somewhat average receiver like Higgins, and when he was playing his best - throwing WR open by releasing before cuts are made and heads are turned because of his accuracy and anticipation/trust in a WR being in the spot at the right time. It's the reason I believe there was never any chemistry with OBJ. To me seeing Wlison's advanced route running and ability indicates something that plays to Baker's strengths and something that translates to the NFL where simple speed and size and athleticism that worked in college are not guaranteed to work. London I can also see - because Baker showed ability to throw catchable bombs to the likes of Perriman and Calloway ... And London is taller and looks to have great body control. He might be Megatron-esque? idk.
Garrett is the best WR in this draft, imo. Burks second and then I'd take London.
Deep WR class this draft and I can certainly see Berry waiting until the 2nd rd to address the position via the draft depnding on who is available on the DL at 13.
Trade down would be ideal if it is WR that is targeted. Need someone will trade up to 13 though. Would likely have to have a QB a team is targeting at 13 in order to find a trade partner. With the next pick behind us, Baltimore does not need to draft a QB and Philly has the next two picks. They could possibly take a QB to push Hurts. Saints pick at 18 and could QB so that is likely the trade partner that could be motivated to leap frog Philly to grab a QB. Next would be Pittsburgh at 20, but I do not see Berry dealing with Steelers to help them jump up to grab a QB.
That is why there is no consensus on who goes first. They are different but all three could be very good.
I could make a case for each guy. I love how Wilson sets guys up. He is very slick.
Burks, might have the biggest upside because he has Combine wows. He is a big, strong, fast guy who is learning but has all the raw power you look for. He will have a eye popping combine.
I love London because in the NFL corners are great. They have the speed and acquire great technique. It is hard to get separation.
London has speed but he is not as fast as Burks. Nor, is he as quick in and out of breaks as Wilson.
He just dominates corners. He out positions them for the ball, boxes them out and high points the ball. I did not see him in tape where a corner took the ball from him. He catches the ball away from his body. He shows great control of his body. I have no idea how a corner could handle back shoulder throws to him?
He also shows athleticism before and after the catch with good YAC yards. I see him as a guy who should be a safe bet in the NFL.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like if drafting from the POV of not making a mistake, London seems to have the most solid floor. I haven't done any deep analysis yet, so if there is some "must see TV", link me up.
I have a hard time walking away from what *I think* is the upside with Burks. Part of it is the different ways to use him as a legit weapon. I know, that makes scouts and fans alike "cringe" a little. But he does it all in "man amongst boys" fashion. If that doesn't translate to the next level, it does nothing to diminish his skills as a receiver. It's merely icing on the cake.
I was one of the first to compare him to Deebo, now I'll make another comparison... Josh Gordon. Don't hate on me, watch the tape. It's because of the way he makes everything look so ridiculously easy. The speed -- he glides. Body control -- so measured and effortless at actually looks a little mundane at times (and that's not a bad thing).
Ball skills are off the chart, and a lot of it is little nuances you don't often see in a young receiver. I've watched numerous times where he doesn't high-point high throws. He jumps a split-second early and makes contact after his apex. As a result, he dictates spacing with his defender. It's like standing in the ring with a boxer that just "get's off" faster, you have little chance of defending or winning. All of this takes place with great dexterity, strength, and an almost uncanny conservation of motion. His every-day stiff arm is just a "pop"... and he has the same demeanor in press-man if someone tries to get their hands on him. He just makes it look too damned easy... like that other guy we watched in Cleveland.
Check out this vid. Guy does a great job of breaking down his game without all "gush" plays.
Actual "tape" starts about 1:42 TD at 4:55 shows a lot of what I talked about above. 7:44 and beyond is a lot less about WR skills and more about what he does with the ball in his hands.
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