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You wish to try and point to isolated incidents. The facts are undeniable. There is a 70% bust rate in drafting a first round QB. Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round too. But it doesn't change the probability and the history of drafting QB's. The exception is not the rule. History is not based on exceptions.

Question. Are NFL GM's actually bad at picking QB's? Look around the league, how many teams have poor or marginal QB's? Are you saying there are QB's out there who no teams can find or will play?

The fact is, it's not that GM's are so bad at picking QB's. It's the fact that there are not enough players qualified to become great QB's. That's why GM's take great risks and miss on so many QB's. That's why QB's are drafted well above their actual value. That's why by the mid second round in the draft there will not be a QB left that is "the top player on the board". This is already a weak QB class. There are already teams desperate for a QB that will be taking risks on QB's that will not be worthy of the pick they will be selected at.

If the scenario you are trying to portray had any possibility of existing, it certainly wouldn't be this year. I don't see a single QB in this draft that would be worth much more than our second round pick in most QB draft classes. Much less the third or fourth QB in line.

You just keep doing you. At this point I find this discussion so ridiculous I'm not even going to bother anymore.

Good one.

Well obviously you aren't discussing it.

You bothered.

When you come to the part where we are discussing drafting a QB in round 2, get back to me. Until then you fell flat....... again.

8 Pages? I haven't even read most of this thread. Like I posted near page 1, the idea is moot, Baker is the quarterback.

Skimming through, I see some are still suggesting the Browns make sure and get what-ever-blue-ribbon is (not) given out for not overpaying draft capital for a player.

You had to have the last word on it, so not so flat.

Again, I don't disagree. If there is a question, and there are, why not pick a guy in the 1st round?
There are questions about Bakers play, and nothing says Baker will want to sign once he becomes a free agent, not to mention competition to sign him if he does play well.

To me, QB transcends BPA due to the importance of the position. After the top few QB's, there are almost always other players who are rated better and would meet a need. If Ridder is "the guy" I would rather trade back a bit in the first to get something in return, then select Ridder or select one of the higher rated QB's at 13.

this should be able to end the QB conversation

Because GMs never lie to the press, especially this time of the year. . .

While they might lie or misdirect often... The more often Berry repeats the same line the more likely it is to be true.

It's really kind of a banal comment, which is his intent. He just uses the word 'expect' as a qualifier.

"I expect to still get the newspaper 6 months from now."

Maybe I'll still get the paper, maybe I won't!

Yeah, as per usual it's a statement that says nothing. People will take it the way their preconceived notions lead them to.

I find it interesting that Jackson BAL hasn't received a new deal yet either. Only Allen has been been given a new deal from that draft class. Are the Ravens unsure about Jackson as many think the Browns are about Mayfield? Maybe this is the new trend rather than the exception. I see where Murray is trying to force a new deal - will the Cards fold or hold the line - it may answer a lot of questions.

I have always thought that Baltimore is just using Jackson's talents while he has them, they don't see him as a pocket QB, and once his speed and escape ability diminishes, they will let him go.

Joe Flacco was their longest running tenured QB 2008-2018, and if he wasn't SB MVP in 2013, he probably would have been let go sooner.

The Ravens have offered to negotiate a new contract. Lamar Jackson has been the one holding things up from what I have read. Also, his mom is acting as his agent trying to negotiate the contract along with Jackson.

I'm not objecting to discussing QB's. I'm simply no longer going to debate the possibility that in a very weak QB class you're going to find some kind of value in a second round QB. I find that premise a non starter.

j/c...

Snippet from Jason Lloyd's article in The Athletic...

9. Mayfield was terrific in 2020 on rollouts and bootlegs, particularly over the second half of that season, but all of that went away. I’ve sort of asked this around the edges, but now that the season is complete and we can digest it as a whole, I asked Browns coach Kevin Stefanski again Wednesday whether the inability to move the pocket was due to the shoulder or opposing defenses.

10. “It was not the shoulder,” Stefanski said. “We weren’t limited in what we were doing as we worked through the injuries.”

11. Gulp. I think I’d rather it be the shoulder. If defenses were successful in limiting Mayfield to the pocket last season and it wasn’t because of the injury, then what’s the counter?

12. “If teams are not going to let you get on the perimeter, there’s still ways to run play action and try and win from the pocket,” Stefanski said. “If they’re not going to let you win from the perimeter, you have to find ways to make them pay from the pocket.”

13. Gulp, gulp. I don’t know if I like the odds of a 6-foot quarterback winning from the pocket consistently.

14. I’ve written a couple of times now how I spoke to an opposing assistant coach who said their entire game plan against the Browns last season on defense was to contain Mayfield to the pocket because he can’t see. More than one team felt that way.

15. Defenses often spread five across the line against the Browns and played so wide on the edges that they wouldn’t let Mayfield get outside. They’re daring the quarterback to make a play from the pocket, which Mayfield couldn’t do. One of the counters to that, theoretically, is the running lanes it should create for an offense since guys aren’t in a position to make plays. The Browns have arguably the best group of running backs in the league, particularly if they find a way to bring back D’Ernest Johnson. It’s an area they’ll have to exploit.

It also opens up the possibility of the QB draw, but we don't, or can't do that.

We also run a lot of 3 TE sets which bunches up the LOS which opens up the possibility of more players being in the area to blitz or take away the outside.

I just read that jaundiced article. Zac and Jason Lloyd are both firmly in the Baker Hater column. We've seen one or the other of them proclaim week 17 was Baker's last game as a Brown MULTIPLE times ... never wanting to redact it even after support from Berry. This weeks article even starts:

1. This week convinced me the Browns are telling the truth. They aren’t bluffing. There is no big trade coming. Baker Mayfield is going to be the quarterback in 2022.

I find the idea of opponents coaches telling Jason Lloyd their game plan - unlikely... improbable... stupid... ? Pick one.

As for point 10 - I think that's some CMA stuff from KS. Clearly we all saw how the injury caused Baker to struggle generally - how it seemed to impact him mentally - and how he REALLY struggled to throw the ball to the left side of the field. If that's not the case then Baker really is just trash and there really is no reason to keep him on the team for a 5th year. There's not a lot of in between and seems to be one or the other. jmo

I think we're getting dangerously close to tin-foil-hat territory, but KS blaming stuff on the injury may just open him up for more criticism, and he might've simply chose to just nip that one in the bud. I'm spitballing here and I don't like how I'm sounding (both from a controversy standpoint and from a trying to say what other people are thinking).

No being able to throw from the pocket seems like a problem.

Are you saying we have bad OT's or are you saying our depth isn't that much different than the rest of the league? Without injuries we have Jedrick Wills at starting LT. Jack Conklin at RT and Chris Hubbard at swing tackle. Are you trying to say that this unit is weaker than the average NFL team? I hate to break it to you, but when any NFL team gets down to the fourth and fifth players on the depth chart at OT, it isn't going to be pretty. We didn't need any changes at the OT position when the season began.

We all know Mayfield was limited due to his injuries. I guess you can project and throw out sweeping accusations without merit that Stefanski is trying to make him a pocket QB. One is a known factor, the other is throwing shade.

Other coaches watch tape. The league took away what Baker did best (bootlegs, play action, etc.). That turned him into a pocket passer. He is not a good pocket passer.

We need a BS Flag emoji.

There are thousands of words written on the internet about how defenses took away the bootleg in Stefanski/Shanahan/Smith/LaFleur/Kubiak offense.

Are you saying Baker is a good pocket passer? Because basically all the metrics say he is not.

I don’t see why it is hard to believe that other coaches wanted to take away what our players do best. Isn’t that literally their job?

Straight dropback passing with no threat of the run is a stupid thing to do for a team built as we are. We did it way too much (a single play almost feels like too much.) It took our best offensive player (Chubb) off the field and put our OTs at a disadvantage due to rushers not having to worry about the run or leaving lanes. I don't miǹd if we pass a bunch with Chubb in there, but removing our biggest threat from the field altogether definitely appears to be a case of outthinking ourselves, AKA dumb. I'm fine with Hunt/D'Ernest as well, but no RB is a no go for me.

I want to see us use more pistol formation. Get Baker a bit away from the OL for vision purposes while also allowing Chubb to be moving downhill faster when he gets the ball than he does in shotgun. Also would hopefully make it easier for our OTs to push rushers past Baker rather than into him.