DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield 3.0

I would expect the situation to be resolved before any mandatory team activities start. If it’s not resolved then Baker has financial incentive to show up.

Not when he's told not to show up and they will pay him anyway.

For the good of the team and our future draft capital - let's hope that there is a trade on draft day or before camp starts. We'll know soon enough. Whenever he's not playing against the Browns I will be wishing Baker well.

Who knows, maybe Baker is looked at as a possible asset in a draft day trade to move up for someone the Browns really like. The benefit to the other team?....well, whatever they would need to pay the draftee at the selection makes Baker's contract less by that much, essentially. I guess it makes more sense dollar-wise earlier the round if a team is interested in Baker, but its just a thought. For example....

When the Browns' selected Greg Newsome at #26, his cap hit was $2.3M. Assuming that is roughly the same in 2022, trading that pick to the Browns for Baker essentially makes Baker's deal like $15.7M to them in a trade. Granted, this scenario is 1:1 swap and trades aren't always like that but I hope you get the gist of it. Also, I realize the Browns' mindset is more about trading down than up so this would be a scenario where they really like someone- what happened with JOK last year.


Not advocating this by any means, it's just a passing thought.

Berry trying to reign that trade leverage back in....

Baker playing well while DeShaun is suspended may be best for Baker and the team. He's not in our long-term plans, but as a fill in we're unlikely to find much better. We're paying him either way. Trade him in-season before the deadline after an opportunity to re-inflate his value

That is definitely a possibility. If/when Watson is suspended Baker would also be wise to play to erase some bad memories from 2021.

After further thought, this probably isn't realistic. I mean, who would want to trade an early rounder for a QB on the last year of his deal w/o an extension planned.

I'm not sure what she means by this.

I think that's a distinct possibility on all counts.

A: We're definitely in a position to ride out the storm with the Baker situation. Draft day offers a lot of opportunities to cash in our chips in a more creative way than the off-season does. Someone gives us a second, we give back a 3rd and Baker (Do we still have both 3rds?). Not the same compensation we're looking for now, but the prospect of targeting a top-tier player becomes appealing upside. We will need to do whatever we can to get into "top-tier player" draft slots over the next few years.

B. Jimmy is "all in" at this point. He's played the game (the rebuild) within the confines of the analytics sliderule... right up to the point of signing Watson. Leaning towards prudence now doesn't make much sense. We'll be trading up in this draft.

Basically saying the browns don't technically have to trade him and could make him play under his 5th year, if he doesn't he would lose money and look bad to potential suitors

Right,
It is nonsensical to think that we would simply cut Baker while still being on the hook for his 18.9M ... and it's becoming a broken record with those not in the know.

She's saying Baker's tantrum cost him his own good standing in this league... and now it appears nobody wants him.

If he had played his hand differently, this would be looked at as "doing him dirty". But since he quit before we fired him, there's not much of a leg to stand on while we play our cards.

Yeah, if that is what she means by this, I don't agree. If Baker had a good standing BEFORE this, I don't think him becoming upset by upgrading/replacing him during an injury-riddled year immediately puts him in poor favor. Nor does his trade request, IMO. I think the league as a whole is more insulated than most think when it comes to players, coaches, etc. And if Baker was already looked poorly upon, this situation makes no difference whatsoever.

and if it is the scenario where we keep him this year because noone will trade, its up to baker if he gets paid or not.. and those ramifications could be felt for awhile. Its kind of a watershed moment for Baker.. The browns have their guy, Best thing for baker is if he is on the team and gets to play while watson is serving whatever suspension, is to come in and play lights out. Win/win for both sides

If the alternative is cutting him and eating his salary anyway, might as well hold out hope for a trade.

Just our luck we would cut him and he'll end up in Pittsburgh and play well.

I believe it's important to know what really happens in some of these scenarios. If Baker decides to sit out (he won't), when a team decides to use its option, the player can face substantial fines for refusing to report to camp on time and/or at all. Players can be fined up to $30,000 per day of training camp missed and a fine equal to one week’s regular season (1/17 of P5 Salary) check for any preseason games missed. Many terms allowed in other contracts are prohibited from being added into the Fifth-Year Option. These terms include Option Bonuses, Option Exercise Fees, option Non-Exercise fees, Option Buyouts, or any other compensation that stems from the team exercising or declining the Fifth-year option (Sec. 7 (d), 31). aside from the fines he receives - his contract rolls over and is guaranteed in 2023. Once a team exercises a 5th year option, if the player decides to sit out the year and become a free agent in year 6 the team retains his rights for another year and his contract rolls, and the team retains his rights.

Contrary to what many believe here, there are Mayfield supporters in the Browns locker room. Having Mayfield at OTA's or when camp starts is certainly going to divide the locker room. If Watson is suspended (likely) and the Browns decide to use Baker as a bridge, how do you control the locker room of 50% Watson supporters - what about Brissett supporters? Or worst yet, what if the Browns play Brissett even though Mayfield is on the roster with Watson suspended. How long will the Browns fans and players support a move like that if they're losing to prove a point?

Pittsburgh signed Trubisky to a 2-year deal but only has a dead cap of 2.625M if they cut him in 2023. Estimated TBB dead cap on Brady for 2023 is 9M. Carolina has no dead cap on Darnold in 2023 after he plays out his contract. Watch to see what the NYG do in May - if they don't pick up Jones 5th year option, 2022 would be his final year in NY but the could cut him in 2022 still and have a dead cap of 8.18M. PHI dead cap on Hurts is $970,972 in 2022 and $485,486 in 2023 if they release him. Drew Lock's contract in SEA has a cap hit of only 1.451M in 2022 and is the final year of his deal.

That's 6 teams that will be or are looking for an upgrade or replacement at QB. Though things may look bleak this year at the moment - not all is lost and these teams are waiting out the Browns who still are missing 3 starters on the DL and at least 1 WR.

If it was up to me, and the team has him in the budget, I would force him to report to camp and play as the back up. If he declines to show up, you don't pay him. Go into camp with him Watson and Brissett. IMO, the best move Baker could make at this point is to show up work hard, and continue getting paid. If he plays, ball out and hope the trade market opens up. He is under contract, and really has no choice. If he were to just keep working and deal with the situation, I believe in the long run it will pay off for him. I'm sure it will be a tough thing to do, but think about the respect he will build around the league. The ball is in his court. Watson was brought in to start, he knows this, and it would suck to be in his position. But coming off a shoulder surgery and getting time to properly heal and work on his game could benefit him. Plus, he will still bank his 18 million.

j/c:

I think one of the things the Browns--and other teams--found/find alarming is Baker in the fourth quarter. In October, there was a conversation on an ESPN show that was talking about a disturbing stat w/Baker. Since entering the league, Baker's 4th quarter QBR in one score games was 31st overall. Along the same lines, Trotter posted something after the Green Bay game that said Baker had the worst 4th quarter QBR in the entire league thus far in the season. I truly doubt Baker improved his position in either of those two regards.

Combine that w/the 3rd worst Adjusted Completion Percentage. Only the rookies, Z. Wilson and J. Fields were worse. I have premium subscription to PFF and Baker is bad in almost every stat. He holds the ball way too long and was responsible for about 30% of the sacks the team endured. His teammates have certainly not spoken up for him and he is said to be immature and abrasive. Freezing OBJ out intentionally caused problems in the locker room. Word gets around. He is going to be hard to trade and we have already seen teams like Houston, Indy, an Atlanta pass on him.

I think he is going to be hard to trade, but it only takes one team. So, there is hope.

Serious question and not snarky at all. Would you really want a disgruntled Baker in the locker room?

On paper it sounds good; make Baker report and play if we need him but in reality, it's not a good idea. We don't need any more distractions.

I don't think it is a Baker problem..

If I remember right, when Jimmy Haslam bought the team he fired all 3 quarterbacks, almost day one.
Then he fired all 3 quarterbacks again a year later.
I feel like Jimmy Haslam won't stick with the same crops long enough to see them grow.

That is the bad part of the whole situation. Personally, I think it could be a very bad situation, but, that would depend on how the rest of the team views him. You could look at it two ways I guess. One way would be the team would splinter and a bad locker room vibe could cause trouble in the ranks. The other, could be the team looks at him swallowing his pride and being the bigger man, gaining him respect from teammates who otherwise would not be in his corner.

IMO, though, with his mentality, I could see him pouting and not really caring. Thing is, guys like Trubisky and Goff both have been drafted high, became starters and were replaced. It's not like his situation is unique. I could see him refusing to report to camp and taking to social media to plead his case. If this happens, he don't get paid, and that would actually benefit the Browns. But who knows, maybe he will surprise everybody and show up and just continue to work. He is under contract, so he don't have many choices.

What I think will probably happen, is, that the team will eat some of the salary and trade him closer to the start of camp. I think there are teams that would like to have him, and are just waiting to see when the discount kicks in.

Thanks. That was a well-thought out post. Very good points and I tend to agree w/you.

Any of those QB's he fired would have been worth keeping ?



Baker won't grow , he can't see open receivers due to lack of growth !

LOL.......that was brutal, bro.

Vers, your question, it would be no. Not even sure if there was a time when Baker wasn't a locker room guy.


Stuebenvillian, Mentality issues seem to be a big part of issues that other teams including the Browns seem are a big weakness.

Are there any Browns players speaking up in defense of Baker?

Haven't heard any. Not even from the coaches.

I think Baker will be a bargaining chip in the draft to trade up into the first round.

This ...

I don't understand this at all. The only teams that should/will want Baker are teams with huge questions at QB. As of today (3/29) there are two of those teams, the Seahawks and Panthers. Baker will likely be traded to one of those two teams before the draft. We will probably eat some of his contract and get something like a third round pick back.

You'll understand it on draft day.

"Yes, we have pick #44 and Baker [team that doesn't need a QB]. Is that good enough to move up [at least 12 picks]? Are you still there?"

J/C

If a team needing a QB misses out on the QBs that they like in the first round, I could see someone offering a 2nd rounder for Baker and a later pick. Don't know that I see Baker getting us into the first. Maybe a 4 and a future 2 for Baker. Who knows really?

Baker has more supporters on This board than he does in the whole Browns locker room.

first, shout out to MKC for being right on everything that happened recently. and second, this is why i kept telling yall that OBJ was not the issue. you guys see it from a QB 'ride or die' with baker, but thats not what the PLAYERS see. our love for the QB has no weight in how the players view baker. OBJ was a great teammate and thats why so many players stood up for OBJ while we barely here a word in support of Baker. OBJ was well liked from the top down, and yet Baker's cancerous personality and atrocious QB cause a lot of destruction.

eli manning and matt stafford had zero problems getting OBJ. but somehow, someway, Baker is just different and so it has to be OBJ's fault. top tier QB's do not have issues getting their most talented players the football. at the end of the day, the players gotta be on the field with Baker, not the fans. and with Baker quitting on the team on the last game of the season after playing like garbage against pittsburgh, dude had to go.

that's why you see the players supporting watson. we're not the ones in the locker room with him or playing on the field. they are. so it doesn't matter if we don't like the trade.

Watson throwing to OBJ, Juice, and Amari with our o line and running backs. bring both of them back. because unlike what the fans think, OBJ would be welcome back in the locker room with open arms.

The problem with OBJ is that he just tore his ACL for the 2nd time in three years. He tore it in February, and he quite possibly will not be fully game ready until the latter part of the season if at all.


On the Baker trade front, people have talked about not wanting the distraction of Baker. Would you take Sam Darnold, with a similar contract, for Baker if a pick came with him?

Eli and obj didn't have the best relationship thier last 2 years. And had trouble connecting