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Very insightful, 'Peen. His tantrum response will be a factor going forward with his new home team. Can he be a "team player" the franchise can rely on? I would wait for his release or until my hand was forced by injury to my starter. Questions about his injury recovery, attitude, and his skill level are and will continue to be in play. He may have deserved a better shake, but he might have played this differently; bad business is still business. His salary should be re-worked, but if a team is in honest need of an every week starter, his salary may be in the new ball park. It has to be scalable, I think, in light of the DW contract. He is certainly NOT all that, but he is also certainly, PART of all that. How much is that slice of pie worth? Depends on who is hungrier.
Can't always get what you want. If he has to sit, even play, so be it. Be upset. I wish him well.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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The Browns have enough cap space, around 22 million atm, while still paying Mayfield, that they can afford to sit and and wait it out. After June 1, they will add another 9.5 mil in space due to the release of Hooper. This would force other teams (Pittsburg, Seattle, Carolina) to make decisions to trade, instead of waiting for the Browns release Mayfield. Yep. They can certainly manage around the cap here...but until Baker is gone, he still counts against the cap (Capt Obvious...I know). That might keep us out of the running for other FAs who are ready to sign now/soon but/while we are waiting to clear cap space for them. I think they have Clowney "in the fold" and are waiting to sign him - because he knows the deal - until they free-up more cap space. But if we get to TC and Baker is still on the cap, we can sign Clowney and perhaps no one else...on a team with more holes than...well...a lot of holes. Unfortunately, Baker's value is zilch until teams get to TC and see what they have or endure injuries...and maybe even beyond TC.
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2nd String
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Houston did not want him in the trade for Watson and their QB is Davis Mills. LOL. The Colts passed on him for a 38 year old qb. The Falcons took Marcus Mariotta. The Panthers say they don't want him. How much do you think the lack of interest is on Baker vs the $18.9M contract and still rehabbing from an injury? It is my opinion that the contract and unknown physical ability due to the injury played more of a factor than Baker's play on the field and his attitude. There are many head cases that get good contracts and there are a lot of Head Coaches that think they can fix a player and make them better. Regardless of why he hasn't been traded, the Browns screwed it up again. They could have done it better.
The Constitution shall never be construe to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
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Panthers are already in QB cap hell with Darnold and they don't want to exacerbate by adding Mayfield's contract.
Houston seems to be leaning all the way into a Browns-ian "tear it down to the studs". They wanted the picks, not players.
Colts and Falcons... yeah, I got nothing there. Maybe they like someone in the draft (doubt it, though).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I asked this before and i don't think it was answered. Can you actually order a player to stay home if he's under contract and being paid to play football? If not, it could make for an uncomfortable situation where Baker could force his hand if the Browns want to avoid a media circus. One would have to read the actual contract, but there shouldn't be anything wrong as long as the team kept paying him. If so, lot's of former QBs have made the transition to safety. Make him a safety and work on tackling all day since he screwed up his shoulder the last time he tied to make a tackle. Only kidding. The team might run in to issues if we did that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c,
From last season.
"Watson isn't suspended and remains on the Texans' 53-man roster. He has been rendered a healthy scratch each week and has often worked out on his own at practice."
I don't see Baker's situation as being any different if he is still on the team to begin the 2022 season.
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Wherever he decides to slide that goal post.  Awe... and you've decided to address the topic too. How special.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c...
Oh boy. This doesn't seem like a good idea.
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Good lord - what a disaster waiting to happen. Someone should let Baker know that no-one cares what he thinks or feels, or what the Browns did or didn't say to him..... Well actually some people do care - all the Haters are gonna line up and use his own words - or twist them - and pile on and crucify him a little more. Just stop already - stfu and just get healthy and wait till you are on a new team.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Maybe the team will be lucky and he'll say something that will let them void his guarantees
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Hoping Baker doesn’t do it, but we all know he will
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I think Baker is starting his reputation repair tour.
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#1 overall draft pick reduced to potentially traded for a mid to low round pick with the Browns eating a portion of his salary. Typical Browns and their stellar 1st round/1st round QB picks.
If it's not Chaos, it's not Cleveland.
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#1 overall draft pick reduced to potentially traded for a mid to low round pick with the Browns eating a portion of his salary. Typical Browns and their stellar 1st round/1st round QB picks. Thanks Dorsey! Crazy that you could argue that a draft that produced Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward is a failure.
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j/c
The agenda posting on here is nauseating. I've not read ONE SINGLE POST where the author was trying to state that Baker is "better" than Watson...not ONE. The reality is, that Watson is very, very ,very likely a better QB than Baker. Only a select few are trying to make it seem as if that is even the debate...it's simply not...and even if it were...it DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE. More on that below.
There has been more BS floated on this board about "Baker the Person" by people who have never met the guy, never heard a player B&M about the guy and flat out make accusations with absolutely ZERO evidence to back it up - other than what they want YOU to believe. In two decades on this board I have read ONE poster whose opinion I believe when it comes to the inner-workings of the Browns and that is GM...he has consistently been correct in those matters...while also seemingly being very careful to not be seen as someone that cannot be trusted with sensitive info.
In situations like this...no player is going to come out and vocally support nor trash a former-yet-current teammate...no one...trying to piece together the meaning or intent of one's silence is agenda-posting at its worse.
The supposed lack of interest in the trade market is yet-another example of the agenda driven BS we've had to endure since Baker was drafted. He is recovering from significant-if-not-major surgery. He couldn't pass a physical today if the Steeler doctor's were checking him. The Browns have replaced him with a $230 mil guaranteed guy after giving up (3) 1sts, a 3rd and (2) 4ths. The Browns have made it very clear that they are D-O-N-E with Baker. The Browns FO has painted themselves into a corner...with a rabid dog...and with a self-inflicted flesh wound...all through their own doing. They are staring at the likelihood of paying to get rid of Baker...not because he sucks...but because teams know that they have screwed the pooch here...they hold absolutely no cards in the game.
Posting BS about Baker's "trade value" while NOT mentioning ^ is as dishonest as posting about Baker's '21 season without even hinting at the injury or the ridiculously awful pass-catching weapons at his disposal...and I mean disposal as most all are now gone. There are things about Baker's game to be debated...lots of things...they aren't nearly as sexy though as making up %^&$...and now they simply do not matter.
It is very easy to appreciate what Baker brought here in the (4) years where he endured more BS than Tom Brady has endured in 20+ years...while understanding that that time has passed and a new "era" is upon us...while not even debating that Watson has been a better QB than Baker. It is easy to be very disappointed in the FO for how they handled this obviously-desired change while simultaneously liking what they've done overall. It's not so easy to sit back and think (and be honest) about where we were pre-Baker and what we've endured WITH Baker while getting ready for yet-another re-start (hopefully not re-build)...the agenda BS only makes that more difficult. Would it make you happier if people prefaced all of their Baker comments with "I think"? 1. I think Baker was a breath of fresh air for this organization 4 years ago. He gave the fanbase hope. 2. I think Baker's play over the four years was up and down. 3. I think he failed to get better. I think he doesn't work hard/smart in the off season based on his broom sweeper comment and literally no report I can think of that says otherwise. 4. I think other teams don't want Baker because they don't believe his pay and the rest of the things that come with him are worth it. I don't believe it has anything to do with the injury. If you are going to take on a below average QB, there shouldn't be additional baggage that comes with that. I read something that implied the Colts didn't want anything to do with Baker after their experience with Wentz. Wentz is not known as a locker room guy. The Colts moved away from him quickly one year after giving up a 1st round pick for him. Matt Ryan is a locker room guy. 5. I think Browns players supporting OBJ during last season was, in part, because they don't support/care for Baker. Think about this for a second...OBJ's father came out and literally trashed the quarterback of your team and you go on social media and support OBJ. I think that says a lot. 6. I think Baker is a below average quarterback. I stated this many times over the season. I am not a football expert, but I watch just about every game every Sunday. I see other quarterbacks elevate their teammates, play well under pressure, and lead their team to crunch time wins (even when the defense gave up a drive after the drive). I rarely saw Baker do those things. I always believed if the Browns were trailing late they had no chance to win. 7. I think Baker can be a good quarterback, and it would not surprise me if he had some moments of really good play on another team. My opinion is he won't get there unless he 1) works harder and 2) changes his attitude. 8. I think Baker has surrounded himself with a camp of enablers. They are going to end up enabling him right out of the NFL.
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They were his only 2 good draft picks and that was with a boatload of picks he was provided. Awful - plain and simple.
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j/c:
When one criticizes Baker, he is labeled as "nauseating," having an "agenda," and a "hater." When those same labelers trash OBJ, the OL, the play calling, the fans, the media, the organization, the receivers, etc they are talking football. The Browns gave up on Baker, his teammates are not supporting him, other teams are not in any hurry to acquire him, his numbers suck, and those who point those things out are the ones w/the agenda. Meanwhile, attacking other folks' character is not nauseating.
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The fact that none of Bakers teammates are supporting him speaks volumes. Look, I liked Baker and wanted to give him another season to prove himself minus any injuries of course. But after all that has happened it seems best that we move on from him. They're saying he is toxic, immature, not good in the locker room etc. Well none of us could have known this if it is true. Non support from his teammates, coaches and FO tells the story. JMO
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Baker Mayfield didn't do a damn thing wrong here but play average to better QB ball. Yet, all this seething hate is here like somebody couldn't stand Baker while he was the most popular QB we had in 20+ years, and is on a mission to take him down. Shameful.
And people trash talking baker while praising DW… disgusting. And OBJ is still a punk ass for his stunts and costing us the WR room last season. I don't care what anybody says, that happened.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 04/01/22 07:09 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Well said.
Hang in there, arch. Maybe one day we'll find the promised land.
LOL...........ain't it crazy how loyal so many Browns fans have been? We are the guys you want beside you in a dark alley.
Hang in there, brother. I am pretty sure I have been browns for about as long as you 2 guys have (started in 69 with Kelly, Warfield, Nelson, Morin, Erich Barnes and Walter Johnson) so I understand how tough it is sticking with them. I do hope to see the Browns play in the SB while I am still alive and mentally able to enjoy it. I honestly don't understand how guys can switch teams. This offseason sucks for obvious reasons but my hope and optimism are always there. AS a kid I pretended to be Mike Phipps throwing multiple touchdowns to Steve Holden every game so I can deal with how we are currently.
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jc...
WHAT IS THE BEST W-L RECORD THE BROWNS HAVE HAD SINCE RETURNING TO THE NFL IN 1999..?
ANYONE KNOW..?
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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AS a kid I pretended to be Mike Phipps throwing multiple touchdowns to Steve Holden every game so I can deal with how we are currently. I know my reply is off topic for the thread, but as a kid, I had a Phipps poster on my wall for two years. At least we eventually got Ozzie out of the trade.
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jc...
WHAT IS THE BEST W-L RECORD THE BROWNS HAVE HAD SINCE RETURNING TO THE NFL IN 1999..?
ANYONE KNOW..? Yes, everyone knows. No one has responded because of who is asking the question.
#gmstrong
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jc...
WHAT IS THE BEST W-L RECORD THE BROWNS HAVE HAD SINCE RETURNING TO THE NFL IN 1999..?
ANYONE KNOW..? I do ! and it seems very typical one game more then the usual drop back to below .500 Here it is all can look ! 1999...2-14 2000...3-13 2001...7-9 2002...9-7 2003...5-11 2004...4-12 2005...6-10 2006...4-12 2007...10-6 2008...4-12 2009...5-11 2010...5-11 2011...4-12 2012...5-11 2013...4-12 2014...7-9 2015...3-13 2016...1-15 2017...0-16 2018...7-8-1 2019...6-10 2020...11-5 2021...8-9 Bakers four seasons here . One season over .500 , As a fan this doesn't excite me in any way
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jc...
WHAT IS THE BEST W-L RECORD THE BROWNS HAVE HAD SINCE RETURNING TO THE NFL IN 1999..?
ANYONE KNOW..? I do ! and it seems very typical one game more then the usual drop back to below .500 Here it is all can look ! 1999...2-14 2000...3-13 2001...7-9 2002...9-7 2003...5-11 2004...4-12 2005...6-10 2006...4-12 2007...10-6 2008...4-12 2009...5-11 2010...5-11 2011...4-12 2012...5-11 2013...4-12 2014...7-9 2015...3-13 2016...1-15 2017...0-16 2018...7-8-1 2019...6-10 2020...11-5 2021...8-9 Bakers four seasons here . One season over .500 , As a fan this doesn't excite me in any way Five seasons in Houston and Watson only had two seasons over .500, and never had a top 10 offense. He only won four games in each of the other three seasons. Careful which metrics you choose to dismiss out of hand.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 04/01/22 08:31 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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AS a kid I pretended to be Mike Phipps throwing multiple touchdowns to Steve Holden every game so I can deal with how we are currently. I know my reply is off topic for the thread, but as a kid, I had a Phipps poster on my wall for two years. At least we eventually got Ozzie out of the trade. Thanks for the reply. I know it is off topic but my Browns interests go way back. I love watching season highlight videos on YouTube from when I was a kid. 3 or 4 years in a row NFL films voice John Facenda pointed to Phipps as a rising star in the NFL.
Last edited by FORTBROWNFAN; 04/01/22 08:38 PM.
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#1 overall draft pick reduced to potentially traded for a mid to low round pick with the Browns eating a portion of his salary. Typical Browns and their stellar 1st round/1st round QB picks. Thanks Dorsey! Crazy that you could argue that a draft that produced Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward is a failure. *Nick Chubb was not a 1st round pick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_first-round_draft_picksSince 1999 The Browns had 28 1st round draft picks. Of those 5 were QBs, Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield. So, yea, typical Browns. The remaining 23 1st round draft picks, I'd say the Browns got their Return On Investment from 4 of those 23 - Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, with 3 picks, Jederick Wills, David Njoku and Greg Newsome TBD. So, yea, typical Browns.
If it's not Chaos, it's not Cleveland.
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jc...
WHAT IS THE BEST W-L RECORD THE BROWNS HAVE HAD SINCE RETURNING TO THE NFL IN 1999..?
ANYONE KNOW..? Baker had one more regular season win than the 2007 Browns team with Derek Anderson at QB (who had one less start). So for one of four seasons Mayfield managed to win one more game than Derek Anderson did with a team that had Kamerion Wimbley as the best pass rusher on his defense. The other leaders of the defense were D'Qwell Jackson, Leigh Bodden, and Sean Jones. Anderson made Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow look like Pro Bowlers for a year, and made the Pro Bowl himself. Still no Pro Bowls for Baker. Anderson's #2 receiver was a 33 y/o Joe Jurevicius, who missed 4 games that season and never played again. Baker had Chubb to help keep defenses honest, Anderson had the reliable but not exactly homerun hitting Jamal Lewis. So let's say he's one win better than Derek Anderson. Is that really impressive? Or are our expectations just that bad?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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He also has more playoff games and wins than any Browns QB since Bernie. That's FAR better than just "only one game better than Derek Anderson"
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He asked for the Browns records not Houston. I would have gladly provided that. I'm only providing information that Mac asked !
I also feel I answered that without insult to Mac, providing information in a respectful way !
Fair enough ?
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Well said.
Hang in there, arch. Maybe one day we'll find the promised land.
LOL...........ain't it crazy how loyal so many Browns fans have been? We are the guys you want beside you in a dark alley.
Hang in there, brother. I am pretty sure I have been browns for about as long as you 2 guys have (started in 69 with Kelly, Warfield, Nelson, Morin, Erich Barnes and Walter Johnson) so I understand how tough it is sticking with them. I do hope to see the Browns play in the SB while I am still alive and mentally able to enjoy it. I honestly don't understand how guys can switch teams. This offseason sucks for obvious reasons but my hope and optimism are always there. AS a kid I pretended to be Mike Phipps throwing multiple touchdowns to Steve Holden every game so I can deal with how we are currently. That's going back a ways, Fort. I hope the Browns win one for many of us long-standing fans. On a related, but different note, I remember Baker's wife calling Browns fans idiots and front-runners. I could live w/the "idiots" label, but "front-runners?" I cant wait until both of them are gone! And I hope they take the Cleveland Baker fans with them and Cleveland Browns fans remain.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 04/01/22 09:15 PM.
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He also has more playoff games and wins than any Browns QB since Bernie. That's FAR better than just "only one game better than Derek Anderson" Actually Vinnie Testeverdie Beat the Pats in the 1994 Wild Card Game ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Well said.
Hang in there, arch. Maybe one day we'll find the promised land.
LOL...........ain't it crazy how loyal so many Browns fans have been? We are the guys you want beside you in a dark alley.
Hang in there, brother. I am pretty sure I have been browns for about as long as you 2 guys have (started in 69 with Kelly, Warfield, Nelson, Morin, Erich Barnes and Walter Johnson) so I understand how tough it is sticking with them. I do hope to see the Browns play in the SB while I am still alive and mentally able to enjoy it. I honestly don't understand how guys can switch teams. This offseason sucks for obvious reasons but my hope and optimism are always there. AS a kid I pretended to be Mike Phipps throwing multiple touchdowns to Steve Holden every game so I can deal with how we are currently. Well Vers, credit where credit is due; we agree on how tough it is to be a Browns fan.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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He also has more playoff games and wins than any Browns QB since Bernie. That's FAR better than just "only one game better than Derek Anderson" Don't forget beating Ben and the Steelers in a playoff game! DA never sniffed that.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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The fact that none of Bakers teammates are supporting him speaks volumes. Look, I liked Baker and wanted to give him another season to prove himself minus any injuries of course. But after all that has happened it seems best that we move on from him. They're saying he is toxic, immature, not good in the locker room etc. Well none of us could have known this if it is true. Non support from his teammates, coaches and FO tells the story. JMO Hey Homes. Nothing wrong w/liking Baker. We all have different opinions on players and it is cool to debate things as long as people don't start w/personal attacks. I think if a person really has a problem w/another poster, he could put words like "nauseating" or"shameful" in a PM. However, when one uses words like that to describe another poster, it is simply a means to get others to gang up on another poster. Homes........I want to address something you posted about quite awhile ago. No criticism. Just giving you something to think about. you posted a video from Dan Orlovsky about Baker's mechanics pre-and post-injury. Do you remember that? The video was accurate. I don't think the analysis was correct. Allow me to explain. Baker can have great mechanics and be very accurate when he has all day to throw the entire game. However, his mechanics go to hell if he is pressured on at least a couple of plays. That was a fact before and after the injury. I do not think that his injury caused huge differences in his lower body mechanics. I believe it has always been about how he wilts under pressure. One last thing............Baker and Carson Wentz are very similar qbs in my eyes. Both have a ton of talent and high pedigree. Both are emotionally weak and not leaders of men. Both have alienated teammates. Both crumble when pressured by the rush. Neither thrive at the end of games. I posted how putrid Baker's ratings are in the fourth quarter and in one-score games and while I have not researched it, I think Wentz has similar numbers. Not guaranteeing that, but he seems to gag in pressure moments.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,118 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,118 Likes: 350 |
He also has more playoff games and wins than any Browns QB since Bernie. That's FAR better than just "only one game better than Derek Anderson" Is it, though? He won a whopping 1 playoff game. He beat a team led by a limp-wristed Roethlisberger that spotted us a TD on a bad snap into the endzone at the very beginning of the game and had 4 other turn overs while trying to play catch up. Well over half of Baker's underwhelming 263 passing yards were YAC. Most of his yards came on a short pass to Landry that turned into a 40 yd TD when the entire Steelers D forgot how to tackle (Landry was credited with 3 broken tackles,) and another 40 came on a short pass to Chubb which also resulted in a TD. His completed air yards per pass attempt for the game was 2.7. If you go through the entire play by play, you won't find a single Mayfield completion that wasn't classified as short. He only attempted 2 deep passes, which were both incompletions. (Numbers from pro-football-reference.com) Anderson didn't get a shot in the playoffs because the Browns lost tie-breakers to the Steelers and Titans. They were 2nd in the AFC North with the same record as Pittsburgh (1st in AFCN.) When Baker got in the playoffs we were 3rd in the AFCN. A lot of things just happened to break Baker's way that year. The only teams with good QBs he beat were the Bengals and Cowboys and we either won the TO battle and/or had over 200 rushing yards in those games (307 vs Dallas.) Baker was pretty good for us in 2020. But he still barely made the playoffs with a pretty good team around him. Playoffs were the outlier for him. And the two playoff games he was in were pretty wild. Plus, I think people don't give Derek Anderson enough credit. We drafted Brady Quinn in 2007, but he missed some camp time negotiating his rookie deal. Charlie Frye went into the season as the starter, but was so bad they pulled him by halftime and promptly traded him for a 6th round pick. Anderson in only his 2nd year in the league with minimal experience came in off the bench. He took a team that had been 4-12 the year before, went 10-6, and made the Pro Bowl. He threw 16 TDs to Braylon Edwards that year. He would have had more if Edwards had better than a ~50% catch rate.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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1 member likes this:
Versatile Dog |
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
People may say that Baker led us to that victory, but the Steelers turned the ball over 5 times and Ben threw 4 picks. Are people really forgetting that and how the first snap over Ben's head resulted in a TD?
Nah.........it was all Baker.
Just like it was all Baker who got us from 0 and 16 to 11-5 and it everyone else who causes us to lose games. LOL.......the alternative universe.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,118 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
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Maybe Baker was our Trent Dilfer. Hopefully Watson can be our Joe Montana.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,949 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,949 Likes: 763 |
He also has more playoff games and wins than any Browns QB since Bernie. That's FAR better than just "only one game better than Derek Anderson" Is it, though? He won a whopping 1 playoff game. The same number of playoff wins as the guy replacing him. Seems pretty impressive.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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