DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield 3.0

He was the QB. It's his record. Same as a pitcher in baseball.
Yeah, they laid an egg, but it was still us beating up on not just a division rival, but another Playoff team. And let's not forget the fact that we damn near downed the Chefs the following week, so it's not like we beat Pitt only because they screwed themselves (though, our coaching tried its best to keep Pitt in that game)

So QB wins are as irrelevant as pitcher wins?

Baker deserves credit for the win against Pittsburgh. I know you like Baker and I don't wish to argue w/you. There is nothing wrong w/liking or disliking a player. I object when posters deliberately misquote others or resort to personal attacks on those they disagree with. You are not doing that and I have no problem w/you supporting Baker.

Regarding the Chiefs playoff game.........I thought Baker played a good game overall. My issue was that in the clutch, KC's qb made a couple of big plays and Baker did not. It would be one thing if it was Mahomes, but Chad Hennie or whatever his name is was more clutch than Baker. To expound on that point, I want to point out that most folks on here love analytics and rip Mac a new one each time he goes on one of his nonsensical Analytical bashes. Yet, those same folks ignore the analytical thought process when it comes to Baker. For example, I posted how Baker had the worst 4th quarter QBR in the league last year and how he is ranked 31st over the course of his career in one-score games in the 4th quarter. That's a real problem, Purp. I think our FO and coaching staff understands that. There are other issues such as immaturity, wilting when pressured in the pocket, having a hard time throwing from the pocket, etc.........but not performing well in the clutch is damning when a team had a roster that should have been in the Super Bowl. I believe Watson gives us a better shot of winning it all. Now, we just have to try and build the roster back up to somewhere close to it was in 2020.

I don't like being called an idiot and front runner is certainly not accurate. I did not play organized ball past HS baseball as a sophomore ( dad got sick so I had to get a job after school) but I can't imagine playing in an era where every mistake you make get discussed endlessly on social media, talk radio & ESPN.

I know Baker and his wife are just supposed to let it roll off their back, but I would not want to go through that. Even worse if the criticism is about my wife. Saying that, the position he holds requires the ability to push that aside. It does come with the territory.

I didn't want him to be that draft pick because I thought he was a hot dog and not mature. I am no expert, just my opinion. I still welcomed him as a Brown and really wanted him to be the franchise guy.

I am happy to have DW as our QB, but as of now, rather than deciding based on preliminary info I am waiting until more detail is out & I may change my mind on how I feel about this mess.

I guess if fans are so Baker based and they leave, that is their choice. None of the people I know personally are giving up on them yet.

Nice post. I appreciate rational, logical discourse. Hang in there, Fort. Hopefully, better days for our Browns lie in our future.

I guess if you fail to show that watson really hasn't produced much more than that from a W's aspect it's fair. I mean since those numbers are so similar, as a fan are you excited by that? And if so why would those numbers excite you in regards to one QB and not the other one?

It's not. *shrug*

edit: I agree that Watson's playoff record is similarly unimpressive. (context)

I'd say more. A pitcher can shut down a team by himself. A QB is more reliant on his teammates,

Wait...what? Are you talking about 2020? A roster that should have been in the Super Bowl? My goodness. Do you remember who were the receivers in '20? Do you remember that our LT played ONE snap and then was out for the Chiefs playoff game?

Did Baker fumble the ball into the endzone after throwing it to himself? We lost that game by 5. Did Baker fail to stop Henne from running nearly 20 yards for a game-sealing 1st down? Henne is more clutch than Baker? Ummm...no...no he's not.

That right there is EXACTLY the agenda posting I was railing about. Where the hell is the context? Oh yeah...that blows up the agenda.

If you are going to continually and completely leave out context, you just might get some pushback.

Baker has issues...smart football guys know it and talk about it. Jake Burns does/did a great job of pointing out Baker's shortcomings...they are real...and no longer a Browns issue.

I think we see quite a lot of this unbalanced perspective from the Baker detractors. You see comments about 2021 and injured for 16 games the claim is a broken humerus, huge brace and torn labarum didn't have much to do with how badly he played (and he did play badly). You see comments about how in 2020 the team won games together but the losses are attributed solely to Baker. Ditto for his rookie season. I guess it is how it is. It will be interesting to see where he ends up... Will he divide that teams fans like he did the Browns? Will he elevate players around him or suck? Will he continue to sulk and let emotions get the better of him? For sure there is a lot of uncertainties about how it all plays out, what we do know is that it'll get talked about.

Browns fans divided themselves in terms of Baker. Then some of the division at this point are self inflicted wounds on the part of the FO.

Yep. The Browns just spent $230 million on a guy with almost identical stats in the W-L columns. But the eye test says he's MUCH better, so let's hope those eyes are right. And we just need to stop disparaging Baker, he doesn't deserve the hate.

Truth.

Why is it that Baker threw for 3010 yards, and 17 TD/13INT .... with injuries to 3 limbs .... and 14 starts ......... and he's a bum.

But Lamar Jackson throws for 2882 yards, 16 TB and 13 INT, in 12 games ...... and no one says a word, because, obviously he was hurt, and he deserves a max deal, 100% guaranteed?

Yeah - he hurt his ankle. But see that's the rub with Jackson.

If he can't run or loses his mobility in any, way, shape, or form, he has to sit because that's all he's got.

I mean, there are QBs that have played with torn ACLs, broken feet, dislocated shoulders and torn labrums, but Jackson suffers a high ankle sprain and he can't go. OK - sounds more like a Running QB to me, not a QB.

Two division titles helps, too. Browns have never finished higher than 3rd in the division with Baker.

Baker is not wanted by the team that drafted him #1 overall. No one has traded for Baker even though he is available. Almost every former player who talks about him don't think he is very good. The comment of "no player has done less with more" has been uttered numerous times. Yet, those who criticize him are the ones w/the agenda. LOL......seriously, this place is an alternative universe. There are several folks on this board who can not admit they were wrong and resort to personal attacks as if that will make Baker look better. It's okay to be wrong about something. That's human. But, to refuse to admit you were wrong when the facts are there for all to see reeks of insecurity.

Lamar was also on pace to run for 1,000 yards (767 in 12 games) and was on a team that had almost half the roster on IR at some point during the season. Jackson still managed to be 7-5 despite not having his top 3 backs to take pressure off (Devonta Freeman and Latavius Murray both averaged under 40 yards per game.) Baker's record was 6-8 despite having a successful running game (Chubb started 14 games and averaged just under 90 yards per game. Johnson went for 146 and 99 yards in his 2 starts.) And there's probably some recency bias. Plus, there's the old eyeball test.

And lots of people like to mock Jackson's passing. But they'd also probably be happy to have him on their team.

Because Lamar is a divisional rival

Does not wear brown & orange

Talking about him doesn't impact the Browns season and the impact on Browns fans with the QB situation that is in Cleveland

I don't care about Lamar or the rest of those bad birds

Imo Ytown, there seems to be problems in the locker room and if the coaches and FO feel it affects the team as a whole as they see it, not us, then the changes they made was for the team they work with. We as fans don't know all inside those walls.

We can assume, complain, agree, disagree, cheer for, not cheer for. Voice all our opinions and feelings only as fans ! What the people in charge see and do is out of our hands.

On another note; hope you feel well ! friend .

Lamar Jackson , Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert have have 51 guys on
Their rosters that will.go THROUGH a brick wall for their QBs. Those locker rooms
Are very much unified. Those QBs don't bring drama to a locker room.
I think when Baker broke Mannings TD record for a rookie QB it went to his head
He no longer felt he had to work hard and be a student of the position
Mayfield is not and never has been a 1st guy in , last guy out off the practice field
Kind of QB.
Oh BTW he admitted as such he thought the game would come easy to.him
And that mindset affected his play in yr 2
If Mayfield had Burrows work ethic or Justin Herberts practuce habits
He might still be the starter.
What you are on Sunday starts on Tuesday.

Well just hope Watson will put his ego in check. As second chances are very rare. Just hope he can live and learn. But I am for those poor twenty two ladies who were abused. As really they need to be the ones sided for there.

Has it been proven they were abused ? and poor ? they won't be soon if they get their way which doesn't make someone guilty of abuse.

I think many times the Baker critics blew things out of proportion and sounded silly a lot of the time, but the real crux of the issue comes down to your point #3. Never questioned the dude's heart, but he's always seemed to have an issue with trying to improve his technique. It's almost as if he thinks he's admitting he's not good enough by working on his footwork/technique. Allegedly, he just started working with a throwing coach this off-season... all the while we're hearing about QBs in the draft who have been working with the same types of coaches for years now.

He's heading into his extension year with huge, lingering ?s. FO was given a rare chance to upgrade to a bonafide fQB, and they took it.

I was a fan of Baker. I liked his swagger. I liked how we would just let it rip. He wasn't without faults but he was the best QB I had seen in Cleveland since the return. One of his biggest faults was his QBR in the 4 th quarter. I could explain some of it away be cause we were so heavy run first in the 4 th he wasn't really getting A chance. The thing is it happened over and over. I felt bad for him getting injured. He was able to still played fairly well until the Cards game where he completely broke his shoulder.

I thought it took a lot of guts to keep playing. He really shouldn't have. He was no longer helping the team. I hoped we would play Case but we didn't. If we would have I believe we would have had better luck. I don't blame the season one Pittsburgh game on Baker. Our pass blocking was atrocious on the right side. We should have made adjustments in protection early on but it is what it is.

My support for Baker began to wane after his announcement that he made about not playing the Cincy game. Something about it seemed off to me. We then get the Browns public interest in Watson . The post he put on Instagram was dumb but I still felt for him. I thought the adult at QB comment was disrespectful. His reaction to it was childish, making me wonder about him further. His trade request was immature in my mind, especially when he tried to pick the team to be traded to. I found it odd that none of his teammates were standing up for him. Hooper alluded to problems in the locker room when he was announced at his press conference. Coupled with all that happened with OBJ I really started to want him to go. I heard from someone who would know that he was a problem in the locker room was the final straw.

We should hold on to him until we can get the most possible for him. I don't care if he gets upset or not. Hopefully he will learn and grow up.

Just my ramblings about the Mayfield saga.

Do you mean like the QB we gave up the farm for and signed who demanded a trade because he didn't get to hand pick his own HC? That kind of grow up?

Did I show any support for Watson? Have I ever? The answer is no. I'm on record not being happy about him. It isn't an either or other for me.

Then you could have just said yes rather than have a cow about it.

Translation: "I have no idea what your overall position is as I just simply like being confrontational without having all the information. So now, in an poor attempt to not look foolish once again, I'll now blame it on the tone of your post instead of its content."

Awe...... You blame me for someone else throwing a tantrum? I asked if watson should be held to the same standard as Baker is because of watson's actions. It's a simple question. If I had known his position I wouldn't have needed to ask him the question. And not only did he not directly answer the question, you also didn't. But that's what's become of this place. Avoid the issue and blame the one that is bringing it up. Your kind won't change anything. You may as well be banging your head against the wall. You dodge and blame anyone that follows a narrative you don't agree with. Watson demanded a trade because he didn't get to hand pick his own HC. You better hope he does a good job picking coaches.

Then people lambaste Baker and give watson a free pass. But that's something you don't want to address. It seems that neither did Pdawg. Instead you try and portray it as my fault I brought up the obvious comparison. You are hilarious.

I wasn't going to reply again but you make it hard not to. You just got the response in the same tone as you asked the question in.

I' m not giving Watson a free pass. I commented on him in the first Watson thread after we signed him. This is a Mayfield thread anyway.