DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mass shootings & how politics gets in the way of solutions

A good guy with a gun that had the conviction to use it when called upon.

Problem is, if cops arrive on scene and see 2 people in a gunfight, how do they know who the good guy is? This isn't call of duty where the bad guys have a red mark over their head.

Just sitting around shooting (no pun intended) the breeze with neighbors the other day regarding this matter.. Pretty good mix of gun lovers, gun haters and those that don't really care other than they want the killing of school children stopped.



While discussing what could/should be done, we all started throwing out various ideas.. Not that I'm the brilliant one or anything but by accident I may have stumbled across a solution.

All these different solutions we were hearing, TRY THEM ALL.... Its kids for cryin out loud....

Try something,, if it doesn't work, don't make it political, just stop it and try something else.


It's really time for the nonsense to stop.., IT'S ABOUT THE KIDS........

Is there anyone here against stopping the killing of KIDS?

Not only that - anyone that's been the gun range and shot with a handgun at more than 15 ft knows it is not easy. Add stress and other random factors ??? To me it's a potential recipe for disaster depending on the situation and environment. All my gun loving friends lock their guns away, they take training classes, they shoot regularly. I do not think that is necessarily the norm for most people that own a gun.

Ye, I see your point. Allowing someone to shoot at innocent people without resistance is a way to lower the body count. She should have minded her own business and let things happen, I am sure it would have deescalated the situation.

No really, the bad guy tried to hurt people. Someone decided to stop it and the only person dead is the bad guy. Disaster averted.

BTW the police have protocols for these types of situations. But it seems more often than not when a bystander gets involved like this the situation is resolved before the police arrive.

Other than an explosive device, what weapon other than a semi automatic weapon can you kill so many, so quickly? And I agree with you that it would not stop all mass shootings. But as we have all seen, many of these, especially mass school shootings have been committed by people 18-20 who have purchased them legally. I'm not a big proponent of gun control. But I do however believe that if there is an obvious demographic who we can target which will help reduce these mass shootings we should use that as a way to reduce them.

"No Billy, I can not sell you beer. Society has decided you are not mature enough to use alcohol. But if you like you can go to Big Jim's Gun Emporium and purchase two AK-15,s several 30 round magazines and thousands of rounds of ammunition!"

Air bags do not prevent all deaths in auto accidents. But they help greatly reduce them. I think air bags are a good idea.

I see you completely twisted everything I said out of context - funny because I see you constantly trying to antagonize other posters in the same way. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

This is the third of my comments on the situation. My very first comment was I am glad the person saved lives.

That said the idea that this happened once so the same positive outcome would result in every such situation is faulty - and I gave some reasons for thinking that. If you disagree that's fine, but please don't distort what I said just because you want a fight.

I must have misunderstood "potential recipe for disaster"

Let me help you understand FrankZ - seeing as you want to fight and you are either deliberately misrepresenting a post or can't comprehend.

Squires post is in response to your comment about a good guy with a gun being a good solution. Squires comment highlights a potential issue with that solution.

My response adds other context and challenges to that solution. Namely people not trained to be in that situation. We have trained police officers sometimes shooting innocent bystanders ... what are the odds of a less well trained individual doing the same thing or worse? Higher or lower? What are the odds of a good guy with a gun with no training doing the same - much higher or much lower?

My original comment on the story: "I saw that story - and I'm glad lives appear to be saved."

So your comment -

"Ye, I see your point. Allowing someone to shoot at innocent people without resistance is a way to lower the body count. She should have minded her own business and let things happen, I am sure it would have deescalated the situation.

No really, the bad guy tried to hurt people. Someone decided to stop it and the only person dead is the bad guy. Disaster averted."

Is a 100% misrepresentation of my posts and my point. Thanks

...I can think of several, but I don't want to give you any ideas.

I'm 63 years old. If I were going to do something crazy like that I would have done it well before now. I'm not the one you need to worry about giving ideas to. I also already have the weapons it would take to pull of such a disastrous act if that was my intent.

I apologize. I wasn't trying to fight.

People keep talking about banning guns like the guns did something, or the millions of gun owners who did nothing wrong are somehow at fault. Then there i a situation that arises that a bystander stops some idiot bent on hurting people and someone points out a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with one. The narrative generally goes to the idea that if more people had guns these situations would just be a blood bath and that turns back to everyone should lose their guns again. I suppose right now I am just tired of being told I killed babies since I am a white male that owns guns and the liberals locally just blame everyone but the guy that did the shooting, he's not actually at fault for going into a school and shooting kids.

There is a statistic that indicated in a mass shooting 4.5 people died if a bystander interceed but if you wait for the police it was twelve (or somewhere in that area). The ire and gnashing of teeth that ensues with some people when you suggest that armed teachers could help is tiresome.

Another “Mass Shooting” Happened This Morning, but it Was in Chicago So Democrats and Corporate Media Will Ignore
By J.D. Rucker • May. 29, 2022

The phrase “mass shooting” is being used as the centerpiece of the left’s push for gun control. It’s a fearmongering phrase that draws emotional remembrance of events both recent and in the distant past. Whenever it’s used, generally it means the public is supposed to get angry and call to remove those dastardly guns from law-abiding citizens because apparently, that’s supposed to help.

It won’t of course, as 2nd Amendment proponents can certainly tell you. Wherever there’s strict gun control placed on law-abiding citizens, criminals flourish. By their very nature, they tend to disregard laws, so the notion that gun control will do anything other than make an area less safe is ludicrous. Nevertheless, the false narrative persists.

But not every “mass shooting” gets media attention. One happened in the early morning hours Sunday. Kids were shot. The perpetrator is still at large. But since it happened in the strictly gun-control criminal haven of Chicago, you won’t see it getting any national attention. Democrat darling Lori Lightfoot will not be in front of any cameras today.

According to local news channel Fox32Chicago:

Five people were shot in Chicago’s West Garfield Park neighborhood Sunday morning. The shooting occurred in the 800 block of South Karlov.

At about 1:32 a.m., the victims were standing on the sidewalk with a group of people when a fight broke out, police said. Shots were fired, and five people were struck.

A 21-year-old man was shot in the left side of the body, and transported to the hospital in serious condition. Another 21-year-old man was shot in the left arm, and transported to the hospital in serious condition. A 21-year-old woman was also shot in the left arm, and transported to the hospital in serious condition. A 16-year-old girl was shot in the back, and transported to the hospital in serious condition. A 33-year-old was shot in the face, and transported to the hospital in serious condition.

No offenders are currently in custody.

https://thelibertydaily.com/another...mocrats-and-corporate-media-will-ignore/

I think the person you directed this towards feels much the same way I do. To a large extent all three of us want the same thing. We feel it's the right thing to do to have armed people placed within our schools. The difference is that you advocate it be teachers. People with no experience in life or death situations involving firearms. While from my understanding both myself and mgh would prefer it be someone more experienced with that type of situation such as retired law enforcement or retired military. I think there's too much on the plate of teachers now. We expect them to teach, counsel, discipline and be support for these kids. And now we think we should expect them to carry a gun too? It's not that large of a disagreement.

I have found it's best to block out the extreme voices on both sides to try and find common sense solutions that vast majority of us can live with on things that never should be political to start with. Saving the life of and cutting down on the deaths of our nations children is one such topic. I get labeled a liberal on here all the time. But I don't advocate banning any firearms. I don't blame anyone but the shooter for his actions. I also expect accountability from those who ignored the safety protocol which allowed this shooter easy access to the school that may very well have prevented it. I also expect accountability for those who broke police protocol that may have prevented many of these deaths. The shooter is certainly guilty for what he did. Just as everyone else is accountable for their actions before and after the shooting started.

Try to focus and stay on topic for a change. We're talking about mass shootings in our own schools. A little common decency on this topic might make you look less foolish than normal.

I understand your point, but I also understand his.

Utah has allowed teacher with permits to carry in schools for quite a while now.

We don't read about school shootings there. There was the incident of a teacher carrying and having a ND but really it is pretty quiet on the school front in UT.

Just to add, my sweetie was involved in a school shooting, she would have been number 2 if the guy hadn't missed. I have seen the video, she was stellar. She went towards the shooter almost instantly, this might be why she was missed. Other teachers pinned the kid against the wall. I think had she been armed she would have made the right decisions, and a lot of teachers would. Most teachers I know are about making sure students are safe first.

I am not against training teachers in schools to be more proficient with arms. I would expect it to be honest, proper training and not the crap that is done in some of the current training (throw erasers and distract the shooter type nonsense).

Most teachers I have encountered personally would be a poor choice to arm and rely on. Having an armed police officer at every school, coupled with strict locked entry like my kids school and possible metal detectors.... All positives.

There have been 304 school shootings in American Since 2010:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s


Utah's population is 3.15M, the US population is 329.5M

So we would expect 3.15/329.5 * 304 = 2.9 shootings to be in Utah.

3 of the shootings have been in Utah....

So it seems, exactly like you'd expect.

I guess. to match your point - one of the shootings was a teacher with a concealed carry permit accidentally shooting herself.

jc

Wondered how long it would be before we circled back to Chicago... next we'll see posts about how blacks kill blacks more than anything... Same old crap every time some SOB kills kids... I can't do it anymore. I don't give a damn about your guns, I want to protect the babies in their schools, AND not have them 'training' to not die from this idiocy. Hunters are fine, anyone else crying about their guns need to shut up and think for a minute. Put themselves in the position of these parents burying their babies. Then tell me the guns are worth it. All Political crap aside, I want to hear them say these kids lives are worth losing to keep their guns, if you can't say that, then everything else you are saying is a lie.

My guns are worth it.

And it wasn't just children that died, we have already forgotten the teachers that did as well. Of course, politically, children play to the base so much better than adults do. "For the children" is a such the rallying cry.

Vile.

I've been called worse.

No doubt.

I agree.

As for teachers, no doubt you might want to be selective, and you would even need to have some that want to carry.

He self medicates and it shows.

#leadership

Driving a car into a crowd of people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-harassed-left-one-exes-scared-life.html

If you read this article and you think the problem is "guns" then you are clueless.

Dee Noonan Draws



May 26

So, I’ve been trying to decide if I should post or not. I’m from Uvalde, I currently live in Uvalde. I’m a few blocks away from Robb Elementary. I use to pick up my siblings from the school. It’s a poor neighborhood where wild chickens have run of the place. But regardless,

I’ve always felt safe here. I ride my bike around the neighborhood, people are friendly here. It’s a neighborhood filled with Latino families, I’m half Latina. We heard the shots. We knew to stay inside as the reports came in about a shooting on Diez st. Then we heard he was

Chased into the school. We are helpless. The cops do nothing but harass citizens they are suppose to be serving and protecting. I’m disgusted by our mayor sitting with Abbott and Cruz. Throwing [censored] rhetoric of thoughts and prayers. I need people to know.

We are not a red state. We are a oppressed state. Gerrymandering has put the power into the few. Stop telling us to just go vote. We vote. But the system is rigged. We need help. We are being held hostage by this corrupt government. It is such a helpless feeling.

I’m so angry. I’ve been angry. And I feel like I’m just screaming into a void. Abbott and Cruz, let us die in the cold two years ago. They let us die in the ongoing pandemic. And they will continue to let our children die with gun reform because of money.

I don’t know what more I can do. Sorry for this unorganized rant. I just don’t know what to do. #Uvalde #uvaldetexas

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1529871163312201728.html

I saw this earlier:



OMG!!!

Funny ... because I explained why what he said was out of context. After I explained he agreed. By comparison I see you making claims of posters not saying what you said - but then the exact quote is cut and paste. Hmmmm. You are always the victim - you always try tin insinuate something - but then when you scratch the surface there is a pattern. Consistent. Repeated. Constant.

HOW IN THE HELL DOES SOMETHING HAPPENING IN CHICAGO CHANGE WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS?

KIDS GOT KILLED... THAT'S GOTTA STOP... WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND

You can't drive a car inside a school.

The gunmaker whose rifle was used in Uvalde shooting reportedly runs direct-to-consumer ads aimed at younger buyers

Rosie Bradbury
Mon, May 30, 2022, 6:50 AM·2 min read

The gunmaker that made the rifle used at Uvalde advertises aggressively online, the NYT reports.

Daniel Defense was an early adopter of advertising directly to consumers online, per the outlet.

Its website promotes a buy-now-pay-later scheme and it runs "Call of Duty" inspired ads.

The gunmaker that made the rifle used in the Texas elementary school shooting uses online direct-to-consumer advertising tactics to attract young buyers, according to the New York Times.

Daniel Defense also runs ads modeled after popular video game "Call of Duty," likely also aimed to appeal to a younger audience, per the Times. The Uvalde shooter bought the rifles used in the attack days after his 18th birthday.

The Times reported how Daniel Defense also runs a buy-now, pay-later scheme, which is advertised on the home page of its website.

The financing program allows buyers to spread out the cost of an assault-style rifle, some models of which retail for more than $1,800, over multiple pay periods in "three easy steps."

The scheme is in partnership with Credova, a buy now, pay later company, according to Daniel Defense's website.

The Uvalde shooter reportedly bought a military-style rifle online from Daniel Defense a week before the massacre which left 19 children and two adults dead on May 24.

Legislators in several U.S. states are pushing to strengthen gun control laws. Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey called on his state's senate last week to pass a bill that would raise the legal gun purchasing age from 18 to 21, progress on which was stalled last year.

California Governor Gavin Newsom also said that he would move to expedite stricter gun laws, including allowing individuals to sue gun manufacturers, according to Forbes.

The Times also reported last week that Daniel Defense was one of many gun manufacturer companies which received pandemic aid from the US government in 2020. It was granted a $3.1 million loan through the Paycheck Protection Program.

Daniel Defense did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment. The Times reported CEO Marty Daniel did not respond to their requests for comment.

In a statement posted on its website, Daniel Defense said it was "deeply saddened by the tragic events in Texas."

"Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families and community devastated by this evil act," the statement continued.

"As reported in Governor Abbott's press conference, it is our understanding that the firearm used in the attack was manufactured by Daniel Defense. We will cooperate with all federal, state, and local law enforcement authorities in their investigations.

"We will keep the families of the victims and the entire Uvalde community in our thoughts and our prayers."



https://www.yahoo.com/news/gunmaker-whose-rifle-used-uvalde-105051653.html