DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Watson be the Browns starting QB this season..?

Personally I'd say that would squash the nonsense that some kept insinuating that it was the Texans owner that got his neighbor to initiate all this.

Really Watson may not at all play for anybody. But what was the team thinking when they signed him?! Really what were they thinking?! Would be not surprising if there are more than 66 lawsuits against him. Number goes way beyond that!

I’ve said it from the start you would have to be brainless or soulless to not know what went on with Watson. Now the evidence is becoming undeniable even for those. He should be banned from the nfl period.

Jimmy is the ultimate villain from the browns perspective, but it says a lot about many browns fans that they were willing to accept as their qb someone that treats women like this…not all browns fans but way too many.

Hmmm, you mean like you and the anti-Baker club did to him. The irony is just rich.

Watson still has his day in court coming, but the NFL seems like they may move to limit the ongoing PR damage to the league. That and more women coming out making him look like a predatorial whatever you call a guy with his money choosing women like 2-hour mail order concubines. I don't know whether I should hate DW or pity his pathetic ass. I do know that I'm not going to root for him this year, no matter how it plays out. The whole damn situation is just shameful. The world has enough problems and the Browns just ruined football in 2022 for all their fans. Well, except those that are cool with this. smh.

Hey hey noobie , don't lump all of us into that. Many of us have felt like you from the second this all happened. Trying to wait until the facts all come out, after rooting for this team for 50 years, has not been easy. I think there will be more twists and turns as we go forward.

I am no Watson fan! 25+ women apparently aren't either.

We might need 6

He's gone, lamp. He burned his bridges by alienating his teammates and the organization. No one else is willing to take him on right now, either. Yet, many are still blind to the reality of the situation and continue to attack those that do see the light.

I think we all need to take a step back, breath, gather our senses and be a little considerate of others. There's a ton of good people on this forum that all have the same desire, to see our team get over the hump and win a championship. In a nutshell, the Watson experiment is looking more and more like a move that was not well thought out and involves some shady actions that will eventually be exposed by the Browns, the Texans and of course Watson. For the Browns, Jimmy H certainly made the final decision to go all in but someone fed him the information needed to make the decision. I don't know who or how many are involved but you can be sure that those individuals that screwed this up will take the fall. Whether it's Berry, Stefanski, Depo, or whoever - someone sold Jimmy H on going all in and it will eventually come out.

The second part of this fiasco has to do with the treatment of Mayfield. I took and still take exception with the attempts to lump Mayfield issues into a scenario where he's been painted as poorer option than Watson not for their football ability but for their off the field activities. There might be someone on this forum that thinks Mayfield is better than Watson in pure football ability but I haven't seen that. Watson was clearly an upgrade at this point in their careers. However, chastising Mayfield for demanding a trade, questioning his coach, making a general statement about players playing for money rather than team, or god forbid writing a thank you letter to the fans as being a death sentence while looking the other way for player that also demanded to be traded, questioned his coach and FO, and was accused at the time with 22 civil suits for sexual abuse as being a better option is questionable in every sense of the word. There wasn't and still isn't any reason for the Browns FO to try to justify their decision to move forward with Watson at Mayfield's expense. That's what has happened and now the unnecessary burning of that bridge has equated to zero chance of repair. Mistake number 2 for this FO and owner.

So, now the Browns have 230M guaranteed invested into a QB that most likely won't be playing for the Browns for a long while. They have 18.9M guaranteed into a QB that most likely won't be playing for the Browns this year. The Browns have a journeyman backup scheduled to lead what many considered a Super Bowl contending team with few if any options of getting a bonafide NFL starting QB for the 2022 season. Jimmy H is not going to take the fall. IMHO, there will be changes in the FO and as soon as the Browns start losing, I expect Stefanski to be gone too. A boatload of mistakes have been made here and it was all preventable. No matter which side you fall on in this matter, the FO and the head coach are going to be the ones eventually held accountable. When that hammer falls will be anyone's guess but as this Watson thing gains more speed the hammer gets bigger for the smash. Stay tuned......

I don't know, but sometimes there is info that can't be found out. Some of the info may have been sealed by outside eyes as part of grand jury testimony. Maybe the defense attorney had a few in the pocket so to speak to strategically bring forward. Possibly the Texans took steps to hide information. The same goes for Watson.

When digging for information, it isn't always like private detective Jim Rockford getting to the bottom of things. I am confident that the Browns dug as best they could and were comfortable with the situation as it presented itself at the time.

One other cautionary note, the info we get is info from the plaintiffs perspective. Let's just see where this goes before we get all worked up in to a frenzy. It is what it is and will all work out one way or the other. As of now, I don't expect that Watson will play this season.

That's not ideal by any means, but I think our team is good enough, and Brissett will be good enough to overcome. I don't know how far we will go, but it's not like Watson made us a Super Bowl team and Brissett makes us a 5 win team. I think we will still be a very viable playoff team.

That was a nice post and I like how you brought up to take a step back and the good people points. I am not saying this in a mean or confrontational way, but I want to respond to this one comment because I think it relates to a lot of what I have said. Other than that, I respect your opinions.


I'm assuming this part is mostly about me because I have brought up off the field stuff. I am not asking you to agree w/my stance, but I want to ensure that my stance is clear because there are at least four posters who misrepresent the things my intentions. In no way am I comparing Watson's off the field issues to Baker's. Not even one single thought of that. I hope that is clear.

I have been stating that the legal issues do not belong in the PFF since I returned. They were never permitted to be in this forum in the past. There are those that want them in here because of how strongly they feel about Watson and Baker. The owner of the board has permitted this and that is his right, but he is another huge Baker supporter. Again, he can do whatever he wants because he owns the board.

With that said, the problem [in my opinion] occurs when we start trying to mix football and team issues w/legal and social issues. They are different things. In no way is saying your teammates not wanting to win in the same moral or decency issue as sexual misconduct allegations in the real world. However, things are different in a locker room, on the practice field, in games, in the organization, etc. Trust is huge. Guys can accept guys that have taken a whip to their own child's private areas. They can accept women beaters. Alleged murderers and rapists. They accept guys w/different sexual persuasions than their own. They have accepted all kinds of guys who have had legal and social issues. But, they don't accept guys who violate their trust. They don't accept guys who play the victim and refuse to take accountability while blaming teammates, coaches, the fans, etc.

Baker's fans like to attack anyone who dares bring this reality to the table. Heck, they attack when you provide stats or film breakdowns that validate points of contention. It's just odd to me how so many continue to ignore the real facts. The Browns clearly wanted to move on from Baker. They upgraded the position. Other teams have not traded for him despite his youth and relatively low qb contract. I've said this before, Baker is one of the best 32 QBs in the league talent wise. However, he is not good enough to overcome the questions of how he will be accepted in the locker room. He could act the way he does if he had Aaron Rodgers talent. Hell, Rodgers is a damn drama queen. He is also good enough to get a job if he didn't have the questions about what he brings to the locker room and how he will fit in.

I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree w/my takes. However, I just want to ensure that I am not comparing the off the field issues of Baker and Watson. I just knew that the lines would be blurred once it was determined that legal/social issues be permitted into the Pure Football forum. In the past, the leaders of the board wisely separated the issues. This time, I believe emotions got in the way of a sound decision. Just my opinion.

I was a baker fan. I wanted to draft him and made that clear from the months leading up to the draft.

With that context painted, I think Baker shot himself in the foot more than anything the Browns did to him. I started to lose my respect for the guy when he was in a PC and started to talk about that "He" was the only person who would decide if he played or not.

That had to fly over like a lead balloon with the coaches. I would also bet those conversations were going on behind closed doors before he came out with that public proclamation. To play off something I used to say about Butch Davis letting his ego interfere with making sound football decisions, Baker let his ego interfere with making sound career decisions, cumulating with his pod cast appearance.

Is that like when OBJ said he wasn't ready to play until week 3? Or any other player with a serious injury who ultimately has the #1 decision as to if he's able to play?

Or was Baker a selfish [censored] from week 3 through week 16 for putting himself on the starting lineup card?

Has it ever once crossed your mind that perhaps Baker insisted on playing because he knew he was not playing that great and he wanted to correct that lasting image because of his contract situation? I am not saying that as a knock on Baker. I would do the same thing.

Btw--------I haven't received that apology yet. Are you willing to offer it so we can move on or do you really want the last thing you said to me was you calling me a liar?

J/c

I feel WAY worse about this situation than I did a few months ago. It’s apparent that Buzbee is making this thing drag out as long as possible and the NFL looks worse every passing day (and we all know how important image is to the NFL).

I used to think half of a season suspension was worst case scenario … but now I honestly think he’s going to be gone forever.

I have no idea why Baker did what he did...I don't know him...that doesn't stop you though.

I have no reason to apologize to you...I have nothing to move on from...so you can stop holding your breath.

Amazing that you talk about Baker incessantly...yet you never mention the injury to his shoulder in week #2...it's like it never happened. Weird. What might one call "it" when another constantly leaves out context when beating a dead horse...er...I mean...makes a point?

I talk about Baker. You talk about me. I am not a member of the Browns.

You called me a liar and I proved you wrong. Baker said exactly what I said he did. It was on video. You can hear the words coming from his mouth. I am not surprised by your decision to not admit you were wrong. Bye.

I am talking about the Baker deal. It has nothing to do with OBJ.

You said selfish, not I. I said him making such a statement was a direct affront to the coaching staff in a public setting. That just doesn't play well inside the building.

I will say that Stefanski didn't do Baker any favors. He should have benched the guy the day after that PC, not so much as punishment, but mostly to help protect the guy from going out and playing like a Chump last season. I think a big part of that is because bakers proclamation wasn't the first time it was talked about, IMO. I would bet much had been discussed in private and baker got more or less in to a power play with the coach, being the starting QB.

Baker went on to be one of the worst starting QB's in the league because his ego got in the way.

I don't usually comment on a wife, and Bakers wife might be great, but in my view she isn't the person Baker needs to listen to when it comes to career advice.
Many times, loved ones are the last people you need to listen to for solid, unbiased advice.

This morning I read an article that was questioning this as well... They were wondering if there was a way to void the entire trade..

jc

one thing i dont want to hear about is how the Texans "enabled" DW's behavior. we can create all the conspiracies we want based around DW holding out from the Texans, but there's not a soul in this country who can place the blame of DW's action on anyone or any organization.

even if it happens to be true, that doesn't absolve DW from holding 100% of the blame. all it means is that the Texans organization is even worse than we ALREADY knew due to their crap ownership group prior to all of this.

Baker insisted on starting despite the injury to his non throwing shoulder.
Which leads me to believe to either
A. Due to his ego, him at 80% was better for this offense than a 100% Case Keenum
B. He is so insecure and mentally brittle , if he opted to shut it down after the injury, he was
Afraid Keenum would come in and lead the Browns to the playoffs.
Forcing the front office to rethink the situation with Mayfield going foward

Just my opinion, but I don't think there is any way that no one in the FO wanted Watson and Haslam forced them to sign Watson. Of course, the owner signs off on the contract, but I find it ludicrous to think that Berry and others did not want Watson.

With that said, I do wish what you suggest is true because I don't want Berry fired. I think he is doing a fine job.

Depo? LOL.........I'd say he is safe. He is the cockroach that survives a nuclear disaster that wipes out humanity.

[quote=Damanshot]This morning I read an article that was questioning this as well... They were wondering if there was a way to void the entire trade..[/quote}

I think that would be hard. I suppose we might if it was established the Texans didn't act in good faith and traded him under fraudulent terms, and even then it would still fall under the purview of the NFL and it's by-laws and I am not sure if that would be considered.

I think that is more the grasping at straws over anything that would actually happen.

Let's be honest here .... the reason that no one is willing to take on Baker is the same reason no one is willing to take on Jimmy Garoppolo ..... he's expensive, and coming off injury. This, more than anything else, is the reason teams haven't pulled the lever on either of these guys.

Jimmy G's injury is to his throwing shoulder. He can't even throw for about another three weeks. I outlined why no one wants Baker earlier on this very page. I could be wrong and you could be right. Or vice versa. I won't call you names or attack you for a difference of opinion. I'll just say we disagree.

Steve I am not a baker fan boy nor a baker butt kisser. But I do believe that given the situation with our qb, baker gives us the best chance to make the playoffs in 2022. He is a better qb than either of our backups. I do not think any of the professionals in our locker room would opt to go with an inferior qb because their feelings were hurt by something baker had said or done. I think much of the characterization of baker burning bridges is way overblown. Nothing has been said or done that cannot be addressed. Frankly the worst thing I have heard was the “adult in the room” comment. Whoever put that out should have been disciplined.

In terms of making this work both baker and browns admin need to have stressed to them that it is in their mutual self interest that they reconcile for the season. We have a window with this team and I do not want to waste one full year of it. Baker needs to see the advantage of putting himself out there. I know he is a confident guy who believes he will succeed and when he does play well and leads us to some success he will be at the end of his contract and a free agent who can choose the best option for himself.

It saying this will be easy but I think it can be done and it can help both parties moving forward.

Now that's rich right there.

While that's all certainly true, when you help assist in someone's bad behavior, when you provide the location for it to happen and give the offender NDA's to protect him, you are a direct contributor in aiding he get away with it and that he not be held accountable.

The story was going around was how it was the Texans themselves trying to undermine watson by helping spread and create this story. How Buzzbee and the Texans might be coordinating their efforts to destroy watson. Of course the stupidity in that theory knows no bounds. There's no way the Texans owner would wish to destroy watsons trade value so they could get little to nothing in return for him. That's just an idiotic premise.

Come to find out, not only were they not trying to destroy watson, they were actively trying to protect him. While that's certainly a creepy, nasty and morally bankrupt thing to do, at least it makes sense.

That isn't a decision Baker can make. He can say what he wants. But the starting roster is set by the HC, not the players. Unless of course someone in the FO, who would be the HC's job forces him to start someone else. No matter how many times people keep claiming Baker made the call, that call is up to the HC. But I'm quite sure that won't stop anybody from continuing to repeat it.

j/c:

Some people are so desperate to defend their beloved Baker that they don't even consider that Baker might have been making yet another excuse for his bad play. It's not like he hasn't blamed teammates, coaching changes, the fans, his coach, etc, etc before. No, not Baker. The HC and medical staff cleared him to play. Perhaps he was healthy enough to play and Baker overplayed the injury card because of his contract situation? Let's not consider that. Let's make more excuses for the player who receives more excuses than any other.

Most of Baker's bad throws had nothing to do w/his injury. Bad reads, bad decisions, inaccurate throws due to him not being able to make accurate throws in the pocket due to teams keeping him in there and getting their hands up and changing his arm angles. None of those things were visible to the Baker fan club.

There are so many reasons being thrown about for Baker's poor play and if even half of them were true, he would be another team right now. Other NFL teams could recognize why his throws were off. They could have recognized the terrible scheme that Stefanski ran. They could recognize how terrible Baker's supporting cast was. Of course, the Browns FO and all the other NFL teams can't evaluate talent and football on the field. Only Baker fans can.

Baker had chances in several games last year to rally the team in the
4th quarter and he couldn't vs the following teams

Chiefs
Packers
Ravens
Chargers
Steelers

In 3 quarters of those games he looked like the Lone Ranger
But in the 4th quarter he turned into Barney Fife trying to pull
The single bullet from his shirt pocket

I'm thinking the same sorta thing: Suspended all season or perhaps even indefinitely... or maybe we're just paranoid? Regardless, this whole situation just feels real bad now.

You have no way of knowing that. But it's expected of you.

It's one of the most biased and ignorant statements I've ever seen. But par for the course.

This has been hashed about so many times it's sickening. Just some facts again Vers, Mayfield is the winningest QB in the history of the NFL that started his career with 3 different HC in his first 3-years. Mayfield actually had 4 but interim coaches are not included. Not an excuse but a proven fact. The amount of injuries that were on the offense last year was vast and only slightly less than BAL that's been using that reason for their poor season since last fall. Again, a fact you continue to ignore. Stefanski, you, the FO or anyone else that buys into the rouse that Mayfield said he was playing and Stefanski had no choice in the matter is just plain BS. In fact, if Stefanski continued to play Mayfield with the problems he was having from his injury because Mayfield says he was going to play, then Stefanski should be fired immediately because it is clear he doesn't have a once of control of his team. I have to tell you, anyone making a statement that with Mayfield's poor play that Stefanski continued to play Mayfield because Mayfield said he was playing is trying to dish out the biggest piece of BS ever posted here. The person responsible for trotting out Mayfield each week was the damn head coach. He is the ultimate decision maker and it doesn't matter if he was medically cleared or if Mayfield said he was playing. Anybody watching those games could tell the injury was effecting his play so much so Stefanski even changed to scheme to compensate for not only Mayfield but the issues at both tackles and WR injuries you never give credence too. Mayfield playing all those games injured was a Stefanski decision and ONLY A STEFANSKI DECISION! If you're pissed about Mayfield's play, why don't you blame the guy who trotted Mayfield out there week after week when he wasn't able to perform up to the level he exhibited in 2020 and the first 2 games of 2021. But no, you hate Baker and everyone else gets a pass.

Finally, Mayfield is still on IR and no team is going to invest in a player they don't even know will be ready at season start with only 1 year left on his deal. You're a football guy and you know what I'm saying is true in every sense of the word but your disdain for Mayfield clouds your judgement and you know it. GIVE IT A REST DUDE!

I can't imagine that the candidate pool is very large. It's like saying he's the winningest qb in NFL history with the first name of Baker.

Well I don't know about all that - but he's the best QB ever in the NFL born on April 14, 1995.