DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Another Mass Shooting Thread. Cause....

im trying to be civil here, but did you not see the big ass quote box that had FATE's name on it?

just curious.

I don't know that I would fat shame the quote. Looks fairly svelte to me.

I missed Fate's name in that one once I started responding. I apologize for that.

100% agree.

Hell, I think Tucker Carlson buddied up at some point with Hunter Biden to try and get his kid into Georgetown. Imagine that. It all seems like such a facade, almost like pro wrestling. Except they are the ones who talk trash and we’re all the ones fighting each other in the ring.

You forgot all about former law enforcement too. Stop trying to pretend you have some upper hand here. You don't. There are more than enough former police and former military to fill these jobs. You have done nothing to show otherwise except throw out generalities. As per usual. And Memphis thinks you actually accomplished something. The blind leading the blind.

The good guys with guns didn't use their guns. All that was needed was good guys.

And you keep letting your hoplophobia blind you to thijig every teacher in the US is somehow unqualified.

Can't get through a rebuttal with insulting someone can you?

So you claim we should just allow teachers to take some courses and that's just as good as having people that have actually handled firearms for years on a daily basis be in charge of protecting our children. That doesn't even sound logical no matter how many ways you try to twist it. The one person I know on this board that has been a teacher for decades, who knows the dynamics of teachers that works in these schools thinks it's a terrible idea to arm teachers. But somehow you seem to think you know better. Figures.

Actually I suggested they get the same training as the police do, but you glossed that. There is nothing magical that happens when someone becomes a police officer or military, they are no better or no better equipped to deal with an active shooter that teachers. You don't even address the idea that civilians can already carry in public, and that an arbitrary location outside of a school is likely less controlled than a school would be, yet you, in your benevolence, would allow some ambiguous and arbitrary training and people can carry in public,

So you know someone, on the internet, that has been a school teacher for years and this makes you some sort of expert on teachers? I've lived with someone that has been in education from classroom to front office for 30 years. I know a boat load of teachers. Some hate the idea of teachers carrying but they also hate the idea of anyone having a gun. Some think it would be better than being a target.

You knowing one is simply confirmation bias, you chided someone recently for allowing one source to be authoritative, but s'ok when you do it.

When was the last time you went through any active shooter training? We had a seminar at work. Here's the best they had. Run! If you can't run, Hide! If you are found "use anything you can get your hands on, like a stapler, as a weapon".

Telling me it is stupid to arm teachers is like saying it is a good idea for them to be targets.

So a person experienced at carrying and handling a weapon every day for years has no advantage over someone who hasn't? Alrighty then. This is simply something that can't be denied by anyone trying to hold a rational discussion.

I addressed the public carrying because they won't be facing a mass shooter situation inside a school with hundreds of children present. And no, knowing that teacher doesn't make me an expert. It makes HIM far more of an expert on teachers and how schools operate than you however.

Speaking of glossing over. You never did tell me how many times in a public setting you actually needed a firearm to protect yourself?


Not if you have people far more experienced at handling firearms in the building it doesn't. I mean since you brought up stupid.

To be honest the act of carrying isn't the hardest part. It is the drilling and practice with draw and shooting that really are the necessary skills, and most police don't do that "every day". Most do it when they qualify.

There may be more qualified people to do the job, there might not be. Again in your 19 million vets (which, BTW you haven't provided reference for) you believe the pool of qualified and agreeable people would be spread evenly over the 130K public schools. We know each of those schools already has a teacher in them, and other staff. Some of whom might already meet your arbitrary demands. But because they are a teacher you have ruled them out. Period.


BTW, my personal experiences are mine to share as I deem, not yours to demand.

71-Year-Old ‘Occasional’ Churchgoer Opens Fire at Alabama Potluck Dinner, Killing Three

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alabama-church-potluck-shooting-leaves-013146388.html

i guess the "back in my day" generation wants in on the action as well...

seriously, dude shot up a potluck. how are we supposed to even process this?

So none then.

There are around 19 million U.S. veterans as of this year, according to data from the Department of Veterans Affairs, representing less than 10% of the total U.S. adult population.Apr 5, 2021

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/

A renewed push to arm teachers over objections from law enforcement

http://www.teateachers.org/resources-not-guns

Bill to arm Tennessee teachers advances over objections of law enforcement, educators

https://tn.chalkbeat.org/2019/4/3/2...-objections-of-law-enforcement-educators

Efforts to arm teachers spark new — and old — safety concerns

Teachers, school safety experts and law enforcement professionals contend arming staff to address shootings brings considerable risks.

https://www.k12dive.com/news/efforts-to-arm-teachers-spark-new-and-old-safety-concerns/625562/

just commenting on you and Frank's back and forth for the moment.

not trying to be biased here, but does Frank not understand the huge potential psychological effects that can come from arming teachers? are we not considering the mental effects on the children attending the schools knowing their teachers are armed?

is this an admittance that there is nowhere safe for any american of any age to be, and thus firearms must be everywhere? not even to prevent shootings, but to stop them from having larger body counts? i cant even imagine the mental breakdown of the teachers and kids potentially watching their teacher killing a student they know.

Frank, you keep offering solutions to keep the body count low, and very little to actually prevent the body count from happening in the first place.

I don't believe who is armed would be broadcast, i.e. only the school board, and probably principal, would know. 1, or 2, or 4 people might be armed?

That's how it works in the schools around here anyway.

Well, you have to breed fear or people won't be afraid. And the right is good at breeding. Fear, hate, farm animals, etc.

but it's already been broadcasted. because policies in some states have been passed to arm teachers, children can already assume some of their teachers are armed.

Sadly I don't have the answer either. I'm too much in the middle to satisfy either side. Not that I've ever cared about that. As of now, yes, we are basically a potential target everywhere. At Walmart, at the grocery and in Church.

You see, saying I want experienced former law enforcement and veterans to do the duty of carrying arms in school is not what I wish was needed. I wish there were better solutions. The far left wants no guns in those schools. The far right wants teachers who many have never even carried a gun before to be those to do the job. They claim, "Well yeah, just give them some training and they'll be fine". Even rookie cops are watched over carefully by their more experienced counterparts. They ignore what law enforcement is telling them that arming teachers isn't a good idea. They ignore that teachers and the teachers unions warn against it. They'll twist all of that any way they can. It's because each side has dug into one extreme or the other. There's no room for common sense, middle ground anymore.

Sadly at this point in time there is no solution but to keep the body count lower in the short term. There may be better long term solutions if you could get the two sides to address it but we both know that's not going to happen. So I certainly hope that people carrying guns in schools isn't the final solution, for now I can't see any other immediate answers. I wish there were.

so we're basically screwed.

man, what a said reality for kids and parents in this country today.

And kids as well as adults, can absolutely assume someone around them is armed - just out in the general public. Because they'd be correct. Wouldn't know who, though.

that's very true.

You assume.

Again I don't feel compelled to discuss those details.

By disregarding and entire population out of hand because they might not fit your ambiguous requirements you are, at best, letting perfect be the enemy of great.

You will not convince me that people in the school everyday are not the first responders, nor will you convince me that there are teachers that are quite capable of fulfilling a role, even if they are just teachers.

Don't start that hogwash.

Politicians of all persuasions peddle fear. The media is complicit in it and you keep buying half of it.

Fear keeps them in office. Fear sells the ads. It is all about making you scared.

For now I would say yes. With having more guns in circulation that we have people in this country, I'm wondering if that will ever change.

My grandson and I rarely ever talk politics. In fact I never bring the subject up when we talk. His dad is a Republican, his mom a leans democrat and I try and stay out of it when it comes to him. His son, my great grandson is now three. He told me a couple of weeks ago that as f'd up is everything is right now with school shootings he will not be sending him to school. That he will be home schooled. As I try not to interfere with his beliefs, my comment in return was rather non committal.

I told him that the socialization that you gain from going to school can not be replaced and is important. But it's perfectly understandable to put the safety of his child first.

It's hard sometimes holding back from giving those you love details on how you feel and what you would advise. But at some point you have to give them the room to be themselves without trying to influence them. I'm so glad that my daughter back in the 90's. It wasn't a picnic back then but compared to now I can't imagine how I would have felt.

Having the requirement of only hiring people who have experience in handling forearms in schools is better than risking that you are giving guns to people in schools hoping to protect your children that will in turn further endanger them. But you do you.

And only relying on a small pool of people ensures that nothing changes.

Again you disregard an entire pool of people because you think no teacher has any experience "handling firearms".


Perfect kills great.

What do teacher unions and various associations say about arming teachers also?

That cheap school insurance is about to go UP, UP, AND AWAY! Unintended consequences.

Once again, the left leaves this insanity alone. Y'all are so biased. On both sides. But damn, this dude makes the most outlandish statements and y'all pile on guys like Frank, arch, and jfan.

Don't forget everyone piles on you too. Self-Pitying-Victimhood is another right-wing trait these days. You crack me up. You point, point, point, but never look in the damn mirror. How about you stop taking shots at EVERYBODY that doesn't think exactly what you think. Maybe things will get better for you. Then you might have a moral leg to stand on. Hell, you took a cheap ass shot at Purp today and he's the most decent-centered self-sacrificing dude on this site. Shameful.

Is it great? I mean, I’m not a teacher, but I can’t imagine that anyone at my kids’ school signed up for the job and thought “yeah, and I’d be good with a fire arm too.” Quite frankly, knowing most of the teachers there, I’d be scared to death if it came down to most of them responding to a threat in a live fire situation.

Again, no one is advocating arming all teachers. No one is advocating arming teachers against their will.

I'd be more scared to death thinking some enraged shooter is the only one with a gun and has free reign to shoot at will.

Victim? Get lost w/your BS.

I heard a segment briefly on the radio this week - the debate was whether fortifying schools would be effective.

A couple of the comments I thought were noteworthy - [1] The majority of school shootings are committed by someone who knows the school and either knows routines, or is supposed to be there. [2] With the possibility that perpetrators are then already on the inside, the fortification measures - doors, steel dead bolts etc ... can then work against police trying to gain access and get to the shooter.

I didn't catch who was making those comments - I do not believe it was a teacher or school body rep ... more so police or tactical response analysis. For me - once a shooter is inside a school or public building, the reality is you can kill a dozen people pretty damn quickly whether it's with a rifle or hand guns.

j/c:

As someone who was a long-time educator, it is impossible to keep out someone who is determined to enter a school. We do our best to secure our schools and we can do more, but there are so many factors and moving parts. Thus, I must go back to the take that we need to identify the factors that lead us to having so many social misfits, what we can do create a better environment, improve the identification process of the ones already in our midst, and find ways to remove them from the general population.

Think about how monumental of a task all that would be. Again, it's not going to happen. Embrace yourselves for even more mass murders in our schools.

All you got? smh.

What would that process look like? Do most shooters show public signs of identifiable mental illness enough ahead of time to actually separate them and get them help? I don't know the answer to that. And under what law would we just tell somebody their kid is a potential murderer and will be removed from the general population, without them actually doing anything? I don't think people will let that happen without a fight almost as bad as the gun control battle. Hell, we couldn't even get people to wear masks to save others.

And this is not attacking your idea, just wondering what you think that would look like? Really if anybody can tell us what that would look like, please do. The problem behind the problem is getting people, in general, to go along with whatever we decide to do without making political, religious, equality issues out of the plan. There are so many hoops to jump through while trying to thread this needle, that it baffles the mind when you think about it. I mean how hard can it be to keep our kids safe. I guess it's impossible.

Read my second paragraph.

mine too, was editing when you posted that.