To be fair confirmation bias can blind even smart people. Not saying they were but it is possible.
Multiple posters have said that the Browns did not do their due diligence. While I find your idea possible, I do not find it likely. I think it is far more likely that the Browns did indeed conduct a thorough investigation. I also think that we are not privy to all the facts and are relying more on sensationalist articles that are designed to entice clicks.
I think this was good watching. I think they said a TON of stuff that the average NFL fan or average Browns fan is thinking. They really did a good job of highlighting just how messy this is.
They got a few things not 100% right - the Grand Jury didn't look at "Everything", they only interviewed 1 women. I don't agree that DW was nonchalant in the interview yesterday, I thought he's been coached well and did a great job of setting the discussion and how seriously he takes the allegations. I didn't get a take away from the meeting yesterday that DW is a narcist. But that seems like it might be an in show joke or something ... I think he also did a great job of highlighting just how huge this story is for the NFL. Also highlighted some of the inconsistencies and changes to what DW has said.
Def worth watching for 10 minutes.
Maybe I’m wrong but I got some Amber Heard vibes when I was listening to him. Lots of complicated words but less substance.
I didn't see Amber Heard or watch any of the testimony. I did read a couple of things and it sounded like she was very fake and not a good person, but I have no way to know. I hope you are wrong in that sense of vibes you got.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I watched Watson's interview and in no way did I get any sense of narcissism or Amber Heard vibes. Goodness!
That’s the thing.
26 women have one version of what happened and Watson has his version. Who’s right and who’s wrong? This is why a settlement is his only way out because 26 peoples view is worth more then 1 mans view, especially when all women says almost the same thing. Doesn’t mean Watson is the guilty one but that’s how it works in the public eyes.
I like Eisen too. I even like Pat McAffee...But Florio has always rubbed me the wrong way always seem to have an agenda and it is never positive. Especially when pointed at the Browns...(Although sometimes we deserved it...lol)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
I feel so bad for DW, I don’t know one athlete that has been accused of being a sexual predator by a single masseuse and 26 women accuse him, how unlucky.
Definitely lots of reasonable explanations for seeing 66 all young women masseuses in 17 months.
And his press conference today, what an amazing perry mason defense. Im convinced he is totally innocent. I am so glad there are fair minded guys like Pete and vers that maintain believe in DW despite all the evidence. You guys are the true browns fans, your fanhood literally has no limits, congrats!
You forgot your purple font....
First and foremost...I have NEVER said I believe DW. Not once...Second of all what evidence is there? NONE. All we have are allegations. And I am sorry to tell all of you this...but "where there is smoke there is fire" has ZERO legal implications. IF and when actual evidence comes out then I will make a decision and either condemn him or not...but you and others seem upset that I haven't automatically convicted DW. That says far more about all of you than about me.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
I feel so bad for DW, I don’t know one athlete that has been accused of being a sexual predator by a single masseuse and 26 women accuse him, how unlucky.
Definitely lots of reasonable explanations for seeing 66 all young women masseuses in 17 months.
And his press conference today, what an amazing perry mason defense. Im convinced he is totally innocent. I am so glad there are fair minded guys like Pete and vers that maintain believe in DW despite all the evidence. You guys are the true browns fans, your fanhood literally has no limits, congrats!
You forgot your purple font....
First and foremost...I have NEVER said I believe DW. Not once...Second of all what evidence is there? NONE. All we have are allegations. And I am sorry to tell all of you this...but "where there is smoke there is fire" has ZERO legal implications. IF and when actual evidence comes out then I will make a decision and either condemn him or not...but you and others seem upset that I haven't automatically convicted DW. That says far more about all of you than about me.
Civil law is mostly about probability and less about evidence. It’s basically one mans word against 26 different women’s testimony.
Sworn testimony is considered a form of evidence. Suggesting there is no evidence is not quite accurate - although I think I get what your intent was. We do have some other evidence too - the shear numbers is a form of evidence. The text messages about the girl crying is evidence. The payment to the Spa Manager "just because" is evidence. The communication by the Houston appointment manager (or whatever her title is) when she indicated there was a problem and DW had a reputation - is evidence. none of it conclusive by itself - or even all together. But it is all evidence to be reviewed and considered.
As Flo just mentioned - probability becomes a factor. As I posted in the Tailgate thread - It's all well and good to say "I hope he is innocent". That'd be great because this is my Browns we are talking about (speaking just for me) - but after so many abnormal issues pop up - logic and probability become a factor.
Last edited by mgh888; 06/15/2210:28 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
All I know is this is DW we are talking about and the team that had him actually they chose to sit him for an entire year rather than play him. This is a rare occasion and we of course are right in the middle of it. All those elite QBs you mentioned were not sat down by their team for a year and then trade him. We made an offer they could not refuse. But we are hearing how great he is and we will resign him. 1. will he like playing here in the cold. He has been working in a state that has some very attractive Tax Laws. He might want to go back to Fla or Texas dome stadiums
2. We might cut lose cause this isn't a one year and then its going away. These young ladies are out for blood they will not go away. Also not all the fans are in a WIN at all cost. Some or may I dare say many fans actually have a negative view of DW playing for their Browns. I know I do and I can't be alone, I'm sure there are more. I hate losing but I think we got a little greedy on a kid who put up great numbers. In a dome all they did was throw...total spread great stats except one...Record 4-12.. What I'm saying is was it worth it? One year remember that means it was 2020 when he last played. Now he will come along in 2023 and who is to say the suspension will be over. They might want to have a crack at his 46 mill salary for missing games thinking that we thought we were smart putting it after the first season. The NFL will want to punish him so that he will be suspended 6 games in 2023. How much for the rust to come off. The fans are not going to be patient with him. We were built to win this year 2022 2 years without a first round pick in 2023 the teams around us has been able to grow as a team...not us. Who will stay and FA will not give us what it use to because of the cap
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
So, you believe that Berry and Depo who both attended Harvard and Stefanski who attended Penn were too ignorant to do a thorough investigation. Three Ivy League educated men were clueless about the possible repercussions of not doing their due diligence?
Brilliant.
Brilliant people make mistakes. Alumni of Ivy League colleges make mistakes. Attending one of these institutions does not make someone infallible.
Agree on both accounts, but these are two very different ideas. I could paste Frank's statement as well, confirmation bias plays an underrated role in every human's life -- there is no way around it. But again, doesn't speak to "doing the work", which is what a lot of fans are saying the Browns didn't do.
There are a few areas where "due diligence" may not have been the main culprit but certainly may have played a role:
The Browns "couldn't" talk to the accusers because of ongoing litigation. They say couldn't, and I get it, but I think there was a way to create some checks and balance in that department... mostly in getting cold, hard details from Watson ahead of the criminal trial -- so they could match it up with what comes out in the trial. Did they? I don't know. Was it as simple as accepting Deshaun's statement at face value? "I didn't do anything they accused me of". If so, that's problematic.
How comfortable were they with being forceful with Watson (for details) because they knew they would be one of many teams courting him? Trying to dig and get the entire story does you no good if you eliminate yourself from the running in the process, right? Watson holds the key because he has a no trade clause. Accepting his story as gospel may have been the biggest problem in the process (not saying they did, but very possible). If you're going to walk away, with sparse detail, under the assertion that "Deshaun seems earnest in his innocence". That is, in fact, a due diligence problem. When #24 (25? I can't keep track) came forward, the Browns said they were aware. Aware of what? Of the fact that there may be more coming forward or that specific person and interaction? I would bet the former. Which leads me to the next question in my head... did the Browns always ask the next question in theirs? The obvious... who, what, where, when & how... or was it kid gloves because Deshaun answers every question by maintaining his innocence? We don't know, but I suspect there may have been a due diligence issue in aggressively seeking all of the gory details.
Which is where the confirmation bias problem comes in... (and really also speaks to the problem with "us", the fans, because we have the gift of retrospect with every passing moment). The Browns built this "saga" around waiting to see what happens at trial. Once there was no indictment, "due diligence" was done. The immediate next phase is going after Watson. Their mindset from that point was "he has been cleared of any criminal wrong-doing, we can weather the storm with the media". Months later, many fans are saying (myself included) "how did they not see this coming". Well, let's be honest, they couldn't, not the extent and specificity of the details as we know them today. That was part of the gamble, they knew it and wrote it off under the 'ole "okay, what's the worst-case scenario here". They probably did what many of us did... judged the league's past punishment history for what may happen in the future.
So... "Three Ivy League educated men were clueless about the possible repercussions of not doing their due diligence?" No, not at all, at least not in my opinion. The problem is determining what due diligence actually means at the time you start. The problems they've faced since the signing has less to do with "doing their homework" beforehand and more to do with improperly judging possible downside... Especially since everything was (basically) built on trusting that Desaun was being honest and forthright. I'm not saying he wasn't, I'm just saying that was another big issue with judging due diligence in the first place. Every brick in the foundation of being "sure" was actually built on uncertainty. That doesn't make them less intelligent, that doesn't mean they didn't do the work. That simply means "they", for all the work they put in, were taking a very big gamble. And I know, because I've watched, the "gambler" sits in the big-boy chair.
Their mindset from that point was "he has been cleared of any criminal wrong-doing, we can weather the storm with the media". Months later, many fans are saying (myself included) "how did they not see this coming". Well, let's be honest, they couldn't, not the extent and specificity of the details as we know them today. That was part of the gamble, they knew it and wrote it off under the 'ole "okay, what's the worst-case scenario here". They probably did what many of us did... judged the league's past punishment history for what may happen in the future.
They couldn't know the exact specifics, but they certainly should have known the risk. One of my first posts on the topic were concerns that new women coming forward or new statements by Watson could get him in front of a criminal jury. The Grand Jury declined to indict based on the evidence before it which means new evidence can still be brought and a criminal trial still can happen. That is the huge risk and the difference between "innocent" and where we are now. That is where we are today and it was predictable, not guaranteed, but possible and this was in the media as well. I do not think we can say the Browns couldnt have seen it coming, they just decided to risk it.
What do you think the private investigators the Browns hired did? Do you think they were utilized in ways that would have been improper for the Browns themselves to partake in?
Their mindset from that point was "he has been cleared of any criminal wrong-doing, we can weather the storm with the media". Months later, many fans are saying (myself included) "how did they not see this coming". Well, let's be honest, they couldn't, not the extent and specificity of the details as we know them today. That was part of the gamble, they knew it and wrote it off under the 'ole "okay, what's the worst-case scenario here". They probably did what many of us did... judged the league's past punishment history for what may happen in the future.
They couldn't know the exact specifics, but they certainly should have known the risk. One of my first posts on the topic were concerns that new women coming forward or new statements by Watson could get him in front of a criminal jury. The Grand Jury declined to indict based on the evidence before it which means new evidence can still be brought and a criminal trial still can happen. That is the huge risk and the difference between "innocent" and where we are now. That is where we are today and it was predictable, not guaranteed, but possible and this was in the media as well. I do not think we can say the Browns couldnt have seen it coming, they just decided to risk it.
Agreed as far as understanding ultimate risk. Things get a little gray when you say things like "predictable"... and I have no idea what you mean by "this was in the media as well". Again, the biggest part of risk (imo) is banking on the fact that Desaun's story is true and he is "innocent"... all further boxes on the flowchart are judged, almost entirely, on how much credence you place on that being true. As an organization, you have to look at each of these boxes and attach a risk factor to "uncertainty". If this turns out to be a failure, that will be the biggest mistake, in my book... Gambling on so much uncertainty because of the value you placed on upside.
What do you think the private investigators the Browns hired did? Do you think they were utilized in ways that would have been improper for the Browns themselves to partake in?
Not certain of any detail, but to your second question -- I certainly hope so! I almost went off on that tangent in my post. The biggest reason to hire private investigators, would be to do the dirty work that would be frowned upon if done by members of the organization. It also creates a layer of "plausible deniability", if someone says they pushed the envelope too far, i.e... crossing the line where courts were concerned or asking tough questions that would be unbecoming of a GM or coach.
So, you believe that Berry and Depo who both attended Harvard and Stefanski who attended Penn were too ignorant to do a thorough investigation. Three Ivy League educated men were clueless about the possible repercussions of not doing their due diligence?
Brilliant.
Sure, they could see into the future and know all of these new allegations that have come out. Two more cases they didn't even know about. The New York Times report that shows watson paid the massage service 5k for the hook ups. Are these guys smart? Sure, but they don't have crystal balls. Brilliant!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I have never done this before, but is there a way to contact Florio's employers to express my unhappiness w/his witch hunt? Everything he writes is an attack on Watson. The creep actually trashed Watson for taking the offense to the Bahamas.
Yeah, let's use cancel culture to attack the free press. Who was it using Baker being on vacation as a method to question his dedication to the game again? Oh, that's right.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I had posted two articles not all that long ago after other posters were discussing why Watson wanted out of Houston. However, there are still a couple of posters misrepresenting why Watson wanted out. I'll post the relevant parts again in case those posters missed them the first time around and also so others are not under the false impression of Watson wanting out because he could not pick his own head coach.
From a larger article:
Quote
Why Deshaun Watson is unhappy with Texans, and what comes next
Jan 12, 2021 Sarah Barshop ESPN Staff Writer
HOUSTON -- The Houston Texans took a step toward moving past their 4-12 season and previous regime when they hired former Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio as their general manager on Thursday.
But instead of getting to celebrate the hire, Texans chairman and CEO Cal McNair reportedly upset his franchise quarterback Deshaun Watson with the hiring process.
According to Adam Schefter, McNair paid search firm Korn Ferry hundreds of thousands of dollars, but ignored their recommendation of hiring Pittsburgh Steelers vice president of football and business administration Omar Khan or ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Louis Riddick -- both minority candidates -- and instead went with Caserio, a close tie to Texans executive vice president of football operations Jack Easterby.
Now, as McNair and Caserio focus on finding the right head coach, they have to worry about mending fences with their franchise quarterback because he did not have a say in the general manager search.
How did we get here? Watson’s frustration with the Texans’ organization started in March when the team traded wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals for running back David Johnson without letting the quarterback know about the deal before it happened.
While many feel the Texans did not get adequate value for the All-Pro receiver -- the Texans also received a 2020 second-rounder (which became DL Ross Blacklock) and a 2021 fourth-round pick and sent a 2020 fourth-round pick to Arizona (which became DL Rashard Lawrence) -- former head coach and general manager Bill O’Brien was right about one thing: Watson didn’t need Hopkins to put up big numbers.
Will Fuller V set career highs in receptions (53), receiving yards (879) and touchdowns (eight) in 11 games before he was suspended, and the addition of Brandin Cooks (team-high 81 catches and 1,150 yards, along with six TDs) helped Watson finish with an NFL-best 4,823 passing yards, as well as a career-high 33 passing touchdowns and career-low seven interceptions.
The frustration came back -- and increased -- after the Texans hired Caserio last week.
Can you blame Deshaun Watson for wanting out of Houston?
Hatred is a learned behavior that is passed down from one generation to the next. For the McNair family, it’s a tradition. So it should come as no surprise that their franchise is in shambles. After all, racism and mediocrity go together like peanut butter and jelly.
According to a report from ESPN, Texans owner Cal McNair — son of the late Bob McNair, who once doubled down on his criticism of Black players taking a knee, saying that he “can’t have the inmates running the prison” — paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to a search firm to help the team fill its general manager vacancy. But instead of hiring one of the two candidates of color presented to them — Omar Khan and Louis Riddick — the younger McNair ignored the firm’s recommendations and hired Nick Caserio, a white man.
Rumors and reports are flying about how pissed off Deshaun Watson is about McNair’s decision. It’s already been reported that Watson wanted Houston to hire Eric Bieniemy. As of now, the Texans are the only team with a head coaching vacancy that has yet to contact Bieniemy for an interview.
Bieniemy is Black, if you hadn’t figured it out by now.
Everything is falling apart for a team that just finished 4-12 with two of the best players in the NFL, and the ownership’s hatred of people who aren’t white is the reason.
This is the same franchise that hired, and fired, Bill O’Brien. A coach that allegedly made insensitive comments to DeAndre Hopkins during a meeting about his “baby mamas,” which is coded language used to describe Black people. O’Brien also decided to trade Hopkins, arguably the best wide receiver in the league, to Arizona for basically nothing. Interesting.
But, to be fair to O’Brien, it appears that he wasn’t liked by many in the locker room, regardless of color. In October, ESPN confirmed that J.J. Watt and O’Brien got into a “verbal blowup at practice” because the coach had “lost the team.”
However, while all of these things have taken place in Houston over the years, Watson had never publicly involved himself with any of it. He’d decided to stay away from anything controversial.
But then, Deshaun Watson woke up. As one of the faces of the league, he slowly but surely started to use his platform. We saw him marching and protesting over the summer. He’s found his voice and is realizing his power.
Quit bashing Baker in every post. That would be a start. Next up, realize your saviour DW ain't playing this year.
But go ahead, bash Baker. It must make you feel good.
That is three in a row. And who the hell are you to tell me what to do? Go ahead, LWA and have the final say, but I'm done talking to you tonight. What's crazy is that as much as you dislike Pit, you are like brothers from another mother. Always trying to dictate what others say and trashing them for alternative opinions. I'll talk about Baker if I want. You can't stop me.
Ah, still living in your head rent free I see. Can't keep my name out of your mouth but refuse to man up and address me directly. What an upstanding example of class you must feel you are.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
yea, im assuming this dude has some sort of massage therapist fetish, and some sort of sex addiction.
Did you even notice how when it's someone wealthy and or famous, they call it a sex addiction or fetish, but when it's your average person you're a pervert? Sort of like how poor people get labeled as crazy and rich people get called eccentric for the exact same thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Their mindset from that point was "he has been cleared of any criminal wrong-doing, we can weather the storm with the media". Months later, many fans are saying (myself included) "how did they not see this coming". Well, let's be honest, they couldn't, not the extent and specificity of the details as we know them today. That was part of the gamble, they knew it and wrote it off under the 'ole "okay, what's the worst-case scenario here". They probably did what many of us did... judged the league's past punishment history for what may happen in the future.
They couldn't know the exact specifics, but they certainly should have known the risk. One of my first posts on the topic were concerns that new women coming forward or new statements by Watson could get him in front of a criminal jury. The Grand Jury declined to indict based on the evidence before it which means new evidence can still be brought and a criminal trial still can happen. That is the huge risk and the difference between "innocent" and where we are now. That is where we are today and it was predictable, not guaranteed, but possible and this was in the media as well. I do not think we can say the Browns couldnt have seen it coming, they just decided to risk it.
Agreed as far as understanding ultimate risk. Things get a little gray when you say things like "predictable"... and I have no idea what you mean by "this was in the media as well". Again, the biggest part of risk (imo) is banking on the fact that Desaun's story is true and he is "innocent"... all further boxes on the flowchart are judged, almost entirely, on how much credence you place on that being true. As an organization, you have to look at each of these boxes and attach a risk factor to "uncertainty". If this turns out to be a failure, that will be the biggest mistake, in my book... Gambling on so much uncertainty because of the value you placed on upside.
Re: Media There were 2 or 3 articles right after we signed him that I read that spoke about concerns about future allegations. One article/video I actually posted was from Florio who pointed out that any new women coming forward or any statements by Watson could be put before another GJ and lead to a possible indictment. He stated it was in Watson's best interest to take the Browns money and pay off the women to prevent more concerns in the future. This is still a concern for me because woman number 2x-to-6x could provide something new and further damaging. The longer it drags out, the bigger it can get.
Re: Watson's Story It could be possible Watson believes his truth, but that it conflicts with 60 other women. It seems to me he words things oddly when he speaks up. It could be he sees nothing wrong in what he has done, but society would. It could also be, and this I hope for, his lawyer is really bad at wording things for him.
Their mindset from that point was "he has been cleared of any criminal wrong-doing, we can weather the storm with the media". Months later, many fans are saying (myself included) "how did they not see this coming". Well, let's be honest, they couldn't, not the extent and specificity of the details as we know them today. That was part of the gamble, they knew it and wrote it off under the 'ole "okay, what's the worst-case scenario here". They probably did what many of us did... judged the league's past punishment history for what may happen in the future.
They couldn't know the exact specifics, but they certainly should have known the risk. One of my first posts on the topic were concerns that new women coming forward or new statements by Watson could get him in front of a criminal jury. The Grand Jury declined to indict based on the evidence before it which means new evidence can still be brought and a criminal trial still can happen. That is the huge risk and the difference between "innocent" and where we are now. That is where we are today and it was predictable, not guaranteed, but possible and this was in the media as well. I do not think we can say the Browns couldnt have seen it coming, they just decided to risk it.
Agreed as far as understanding ultimate risk. Things get a little gray when you say things like "predictable"... and I have no idea what you mean by "this was in the media as well". Again, the biggest part of risk (imo) is banking on the fact that Desaun's story is true and he is "innocent"... all further boxes on the flowchart are judged, almost entirely, on how much credence you place on that being true. As an organization, you have to look at each of these boxes and attach a risk factor to "uncertainty". If this turns out to be a failure, that will be the biggest mistake, in my book... Gambling on so much uncertainty because of the value you placed on upside.
Re: Media There were 2 or 3 articles right after we signed him that I read that spoke about concerns about future allegations. One article/video I actually posted was from Florio who pointed out that any new women coming forward or any statements by Watson could be put before another GJ and lead to a possible indictment. He stated it was in Watson's best interest to take the Browns money and pay off the women to prevent more concerns in the future. This is still a concern for me because woman number 2x-to-6x could provide something new and further damaging. The longer it drags out, the bigger it can get.
Re: Watson's Story It could be possible Watson believes his truth, but that it conflicts with 60 other women. It seems to me he words things oddly when he speaks up. It could be he sees nothing wrong in what he has done, but society would. It could also be, and this I hope for, his lawyer is really bad at wording things for him.
Your first paragraph is the most problematic for the Browns and the fans. At the end of the day -- Watson is going to be okay. He's not going to jail and has 230M. He could decide to take a chunk of that and over pay these accusers and not really lose any sleep. It is in the best interest for all involved (but especially "us") if he does. 2x thru 6x is the elphant in the room, especially since Buzbee has been masterful at crafting public opinion by controlling the "portion size" of the info itself. He gives a steady stream of "shock"... and let's it sink in fully before he puts any more steak on the plate.
I'll see your stories and raise you some stories.....
Report: Deshaun Watson Requests Trade From Texans Despite David Culley Hire
Deshaun Watson has officially requested a trade out of Houston, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.
The Texans hired Ravens assistant David Culley to be their new head coach on Wednesday. The trade request from Watson was reportedly made "weeks ago" and it has not been redacted after Culley's hiring.
It was a tumultuous 2020 season for Watson and the Texans. Houston finished last in the AFC South at 4–12 and there was significant organizational instability in addition to the on-field struggles. The Texans traded star receiver DeAndre Hopkins to the Cardinals in March 2020. The team also fired former head coach and general manager Bill O'Brien seven months later
Watson said after the 2020 season that the organization needed "a whole culture shift."
"We just need new energy," Watson said on Jan. 5."We just need discipline. We need structure. We need a leader so we can follow that leader as players. That's what we need."
Watson's frustration with Houston carried through to the offseason. He was unhappy with his lack of input in Houston's coach and general manager search, a process he was reportedly promised to be involved in. But the Texans didn't Watson before hiring Patriots' executive Nick Caserio, exacerbating the situation in Houston.
Houston's QB signed a four-year, $160 million extension with the organization in September 2019. Watson has a no-trade clause in his contract, which allows him to veto a trade to any potential destination. Houston reportedly does not wish to trade Watson, hoping it can "repair the relationship," per the Houston Chronicle's Aaron Wilson.
Numerous teams are expected to make a push for Watson, per the NFL Network's Ian Rapoport. The Bears could potentially pursue Watson, and the Panthers are reportedly expected to make a "strong push."
The Texans drafted Watson with the No. 12 pick in the 2017 NFL Draft. They reached the playoffs twice with Watson, including the AFC divisional round last season. Watson turned in his best statistical season in 2021 by throwing for 4,823 yards and 33 touchdowns.
Culley will lead Houston in 2021 after 27 years as an NFL assistant. He served as the Ravens' passing game coordinator, wide receivers coach and assistant head coach.
Houston Texans say they have ‘zero interest’ in trading Deshaun Watson
The Houston Texans have “zero interest” in complying with quarterback Deshaun Watson’s request that the team trade him, General Manager Nick Caserio said Friday.
“Organizationally, just want to reiterate our commitment to Deshaun Watson,” Caserio said. “He’s had a great impact on this organization, a great impact on a lot of people, a great impact on this team. And we look forward to the opportunity to spend more time with him here this spring once we get started. And, you know, we have zero interest in trading the player. We have a great plan, a great vision for him and for this team and his role on our team.”
The comments by Caserio came during the Texans’ introductory video news conference for their new head coach, David Culley.
Culley, a veteran assistant coach who most recently was the wide receivers coach for the Baltimore Ravens, expressed similar sentiments about keeping Watson in Houston despite the quarterback’s trade request.
“He is a Houston Texan,” Culley said, “and I want him to be a Houston Texan. And the reason I’m in this position today is because I knew he’s going to be a Houston Texan.”
If the Texans refuse to trade Watson, Caserio and Culley face the task of attempting to convince him to change his mind and be content — and productive — in Houston.
“The best way that you handle relationships is to communicate and be honest and be forthright,” Caserio said.
The Texans have time on their side, given that it’s not even February yet.
“Our timeline is we’re a one-day-at-a-time organization,” said Caserio, a longtime New England Patriots executive hired earlier this month as general manager of the Texans.
Watson’s formal trade request was made recently, before the team decided Wednesday to hire Culley as its coach, a person familiar with the situation confirmed Thursday. Watson is said to be displeased that the team offered to allow him to have input into its organizational overhaul this offseason, then didn’t follow through.
Caserio and Culley replaced Bill O’Brien, who was fired by the Texans in October as their GM and coach. Culley is retaining Tim Kelly as the team’s offensive coordinator and adding Pep Hamilton as its quarterbacks coach.
Watson has a no-trade clause in his contract and therefore would have to approve any deal. The Miami Dolphins and New York Jets have been mentioned among the possibilities, although Watson is reported to prefer the Jets. He signed a four-year, $156 million contract extension with the Texans in September.
Watson, 25, is one of the NFL’s top quarterbacks and could command a hefty return if the Texans trade him, possibly a trio of first-round draft picks. Watson has been selected to three Pro Bowls in his four NFL seasons while throwing for 14,539 yards and 104 touchdowns. He threw for 4,823 yards and 33 touchdowns this season and was the NFL’s second-rated passer, behind only Green Bay’s Aaron Rodgers and just ahead of Kansas City’s Patrick Mahomes and Buffalo’s Josh Allen.
The formal trade request by Watson puts at least two prominent NFL quarterbacks potentially on the market. The Detroit Lions agreed to explore trade possibilities for quarterback Matthew Stafford as part of discussions with Stafford about his desire to leave the organization. The Lions, like the Texans, have a new general manager and head coach, having hired Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell, respectively.
The Philadelphia Eagles must decide whether to consider trade options for quarterback Carson Wentz. He was benched in favor of Jalen Hurts late in the season by former coach Doug Pederson. But Nick Sirianni, the team’s new coach, might attempt to make things work with Wentz so he can remain in Philadelphia.
You're arguing with a guy who wants to believe whatever suits his agenda. He's posted multiple times that the Browns are mulling around / considering / looking into bringing OBJ back. It was based on a single "report" and not substantiated anywhere. He chooses to believe that random story but dismiss MULTIPLE reports OBJ never wanted to be here (Glazer - mucho respected) - told teams on sidelines to come get him - sought a trade each offseason he was here - told Von Miller to stay away (Miller's own words if I a remember). Confirmation bias at it's finest.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Oh - and those reports are exactly the ones I have seen (multiple) all stating the same reason. The idea that Watson didn't want to play for a racist owner, might have merit - but then what does that say about the rest of the team? Are they Uncle Toms? Are they too stupid to realise or lacking courage to stand up and request a trade? Reality is it might be a little of both - but without question the overriding story at the time was his unhappiness at choosing the coach.
AND - what does it matter. Does anyone think that if Baker requested a trade because Haslam is a crook or because Haslam is interfering or morally bankrupt ... whatever similar sort of grounds... Does anyone here think Vers would be standing up for Baker for doing that? Excusing him? Or would he be the mental and emotional midget and bash him some more?
Last edited by mgh888; 06/15/2201:55 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Watson might escape jail if no criminal charges are brought by a grand jury in a different location..such as a different county in Texas or a different state.
One of the latest cases was a referral from an a law firm in the state of Georgia and the details have not become public knowledge as of now.
Early on in the Watson case I read that one incident may have occurred in California, so that could potentially be another criminal case.
Watson is not out of the woods yet, criminally speaking.
The chances are never zero, but it is a VERY safe bet that there will never be any jail time, ever, over any of this. It would take some seriously undeniable and incontrovertible evidence to get an indictment, much less a conviction.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I never understood the racism aspect of Watson's relationship with the Texans. IMO (so take it for what it's worth), the racist stuff from the owner was a tangential storyline to the org turmoil that had been going on for a while. They dragged their feet kicking BOB to the curb, but not before he gutted the talent for peanuts. Then they are set to hire a strong minority candidate when they call an audible and hire Easterby's buddy. Then they hire Cullen (the same dude who was fired less than 365 days later (IIRC), to the surprise of nobody because he was totally not up to the job).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
oober, the Texans hired David Cully quite a bit after all the talk of racism was out there. Watson was actually being praised on various media shows/outlets, such as First Take, for standing up to the racist climate that was ongoing in Houston. Many saw the Cully hire as a deflection hire especially considering his resume. I don't believe he had ever been a HC and I don't even think he was an offensive coordinator in the NFL. It was no surprise he was fired a year later. I will say that he received some props because Houston's roster was so trash. Most expected them to have the first overall pick.
There are a couple of posters who refuse to see acknowledge anything that is not incriminatory regarding Watson and they work very hard to shut down those that try to point out opposing takes. They've brought the poor behavior that is ongoing in the Political Forum to the used to be Pure Football forum.
I can find more if needed, but to say that Watson wanted out of Houston because he couldn't hire the coach is deceptive and leaving out a ton of information. To deny that the racism w/in the organization was not the major issue in Watson's stance is absurd. To not acknowledge how the Texans ignored the independent search firm who recommended two black GMs and then hiring a white GM is outlandish. Here is one more article on the racism angle.
Quote
Deshaun Watson Wants Out Of Houston: Texans Must Blame Themselves By Devon POV Mason -January 31, 2021
The Houston Texans drafted Derrick “Deshaun” Watson with the 12th pick in the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson was the third quarterback drafted overall after Mitchell Trubisky and Patrick Mahomes.
Watson was fresh off leading the Clemson Tigers to their first National Championship in 37 years and he’d done so by going toe-to-toe with the juggernaut known as Alabama football in back-to-back title games, winning one and losing one in close fashion.
The Texans drafted Watson, whose college coach described him as The “Michael Jordan” of football, to be their franchise quarterback under the head coach Bill O’Brien. That description makes sense considering that growing up, Watson played basketball more than football and dreamed of being like former Duke and NBA sharpshooter J.J. Redick.
Houston’s GOAT QB Arrives Watson promised to make the NFL pay for drafting an inferior quarterback ahead of him and hit the ground running in his rookie season, throwing a rookie-record 16 touchdown passes in the month of October. Unfortunately, he tore his ACL during the first November game ending his very solid rookie campaign.
Following successful knee surgery, he was disrespectfully-ranked as the 50th best player coming into the 2018 season. All he did for an encore was lead the Texans to a division title, with over 4,000 passing yards, 26 touchdown passes and just 9 interceptions.
He also rushed for over 550 yards and 5 touchdowns, showing his true dual-threat ability in Bill O’Brien’s offensive scheme. Although the Texans came up short in the playoffs, the talent of this franchise signal-caller was undeniable.
The one knock was his holding the football too long in the pocket. His release of the football ranked second to last in the league, which led to him being pressured (281 times) and sacked (62 times) which is still the fifth-most ever in a single season.
What’s crazy is this didn’t seem to happen much when O’Brien had other quarterbacks that were not “Melanated”, so a lot of this was more about scheme than Watson being late on reads and ball delivery.
Things in Houston never seemed settled. The roster pieces never fully complemented his incredible talents, but Watson did such a great job of masking things that weren’t right by being a leader and carrying a franchise.
Systemic Racism Plagues the Texans Late Texans owner Bob McNair was a huge reason for the unsettled feeling, as he was at the forefront of owners raging against Colin Kaepernick’s kneeling for racial inequality, social injustice, and against police brutality.
His comments and actions created a stir and raucous in Houston and around the league.
During a three-hour confidential meeting between NFL owners in October 2017, McNair stated “you fellas need to ask your compadres to stop that other business (kneeling) and let’s go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we’ll help you.”
He refused to say “kneel”, but McNair was vocal about his stance concerning the national anthem for the better part of a year. He also compared NFL players to “inmates running the prisons” for their protests.
He later apologized for the comments but on the other hand, says he “regretted giving the apology” as he felt he had nothing to apologize for.
The damage was already done with his comments. That same month the aforementioned Kaepernick filed a grievance against the NFL for blackballing (COLLUSION) Kaep out of the league.
Commissioner Roger Goodell and McNair were deposed in the case. In September of that year, President Trump even took it as far as to recommend in one of his many legendary Tweets during his four-year Presidential run, that any player who kneels should be fired from their job.
The Threat Of Being Blackballed Like Kaepernick When McNair’s comments were made, Watson, as a Black quarterback, didn’t have the leverage or job security to speak out against his owner’s racist comments. That’s the kind of suppression the owners were aiming for when they tried to make an example out of Colin Kaepernick.
Since then, however, we are increasingly seeing more teams being led by brothers and that is a byproduct of a significant social movement that’s leaked into the sports world. Athletes are using their platforms to speak against the injustices that plague our nation.
Because of this movement, the NFL & its owners can’t as easily use players as examples to flex their oppressive powers. Now social justice and sports are joined at the hip.
READ MORE: Roger Goodell Admits NFL Was “Wrong” For Not Listening to Players’ Race Concerns
Watson felt severe pressure about the ramifications of speaking out against his team’s owner. He mentioned the hardships of playing for an owner who made those types of comments, especially when he compared his players’ social justice stance to “inmates” running the prison.”
Watson said these exact words as it pertained to speaking up:
“TO KEEP IT REAL WITH YOU, I FEEL LIKE WHENEVER A BLACK QUARTERBACK SPEAKS UP, THE OUTSIDE WORLD SOMETIMES DOESN’T THINK THEY’RE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON. SO IN REALITY THEY’RE LIKE, ‘HEY Y’ALL BLACK QUARTERBACKS ….. SHUT UP AND PLAY. Y’ALL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. “
New Day. Watson Wants Out With Watson no longer afraid to speak his mind, Watson is willing to take the criticism that comes with being a new outspoken athlete. He also has some guaranteed money in his pocket, which often frees up the lips a bit as well. The good thing is, he’s not alone in this movement. Sports hasn’t had a social movement like this since the 60’s and athletes are learning the power of their voices.
Texans fans want him back, but the organization and Cal McNair will have to work hard to fix the relationship. Watson feels irreparably disrespected.
CBS Sports analyst and former Raiders CEO Amy Trask joined Payne and Pendergast to discuss the situation with Watson and the Texans’ front office.
“It must start, in my view, with Cal McNair,” Trask said. “When you own a business, and have full total control of that business, and have full authority and full responsibility, you must be the leader. Even owners who delegate authority and responsibilities have the ability to take back that delegation. … “I believe this rests on Cal McNair to try and repair this damage.”
Bill O’Brien’s Shortsightedness Drops The Ball & The Bag In 2019 the Texans, behind the exceptional play of Watson, once again won the AFC South and hosted a home playoff game.
They won that game over the Bills and actually led the eventual Super Bowl champion Chiefs (24-0) at Arrowhead, before Mahomes & Company scored an absurd 41 straight points behind the playcalling wizardry of offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy for a 51-31 comeback win.
2020 brought many obstacles unlike any ever seen for most of us, and that pertains to sports as well.
In March the Texans, led by Bill O’Brien, who became the GM and head coach after the team fired their Black GM and Executive Vice President Of Football Operations Rick Smith, inexplicably traded all-world wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins to the Cardinals — much to the dismay of Watson.
In September 2020 Watson was awarded a 4-year ($156M) extension, but still feeling the sting of the trade of fellow Clemson Tigers alumnus Hopkins.
With the bag secured, however, Watson decided to look forward. The excuse O’Brien gave for trading away his QB’s best offensive weapon, was total bologna, saying he thought there was a power struggle within the locker room and Hopkins was too well liked per reports.
Another leaked report stated an issue concerning Hopkins having his children’s mothers around the team too much. Watson was never consulted on the move and that’s just wrong.
Consider this: Do you think his white counterparts wouldn’t be consulted if their franchises were thinking of trading their No.1 option in the passing game?
I seriously doubt it .
The Last Straw The team began 0-4 in the 2020 season and O’Brien was fired. Houston didn’t finish with a great record (4-12) but Watson had his best season as a pro and they played with a looseness and freeness they’d been missing under O’Brien.
Star defensive end JJ Watt was elated to see O’Brien finally fired and he basically stated this following the team winning its first game.
As the 2020 season came to an end, there was talk about the head coaching vacancy in Houston being a great fit for current Chiefs offensive mastermind Eric Bieniemy.
Watson had even consulted Patrick Mahomes about Bieniemy. Mahomes said he’d be a great hire for the franchise and especially for Watson who possesses a similar skillset.
Heir owner Cal McNair hired a firm to help with his team’s GM search and they told him the two best candidates were Omar Khan (Steelers) and Louis Riddick (MNF Color Analyst and Former NFL Front Office Exec).
At the last minute, he deviated and hired Nick Caserio (Patriots). This upset many in the organization as the Koran Ferry firm had done the work and ended up with two minority candidates and he completely ignored them.
Via Yahoo.com
“The Texans invited Watson to give input for both the G.M. hire and the head-coaching hire. He did, and the team disregarded his input. The Texans initially ignored his recommendation that Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy be interviewed for the head-coaching job. (Also) the Texans completely ignored Watson’s recommendation that former 49ers defensive coordinator (and now Jets head coach) Robert Saleh be interviewed for the job.
To those who point out that quarterbacks aren’t supposed to play that kind of a role in the management of a team, two points: (1) the Texans asked him to play that role; and (2) since quarterbacks are expected to be quasi-members of management, why shouldn’t they play that kind of a role in the management of a team?”
Watson was fuming and began to question the direction of the franchise, as he was assured he’d be kept in the loop of the hiring process of both the GM and head coach.
Following his comments, they all of a sudden wanna do a zoom interview with the guy who’s helped create this “Mahomes Mania” as we know it.
One has to begin to wonder, if not traded, will Watson withhold his services this coming season?
