DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Reaching out to and/or trading Baker

I agree with you Peen,, Baker is done here.. it appears that he wants to be done as well.

I've said it before and think it bears repeating.

Long before the Watson trade and long before the 2021 season ended, both the Browns and Baker were pretty much done with each other.

Absolutely. Baker was never coming back this year. It was clear after the Steelers game and began after the Detroit game when he wouldn’t even speak to the media after the team actually won the game.

Baker should take his 18 million owed to him and retire whIle he still is very healthy
He is just another QB drafted high who failed to live up to expectations
Who knows he might make a really good football coach
In the NFL team success is so dependant on QB play.
He simply cannot get a team to any kind of championship game
He limits what a,offense can execute on Sundays

Yeah, there aren't any teams who signing a QB that has proven he can take his team to the playoffs and actually win a playoff game would be a huge improvement. The fact that some people can look at that evidence and proclaim that he has zero chance at taking a team to a SB are obviously agenda driven. I'm certainly not saying Baker is an elite QB. But the length people will go to, to try and act like he isn't an upgrade to a lot of staring QB's in this league are and he should instead move on to coaching? We see who you are.

I'm pretty sure he can't retire and still retain his salary, even if it is guaranteed. The think guarantee part covers injury or if the Browns release him, not voluntary retirement, unless the old "personal service contarct" days are back.

T.J Yates won a playoff game with the Texans
I watched David Woodley win a playoff game
Rex Grossman won playoff games.
Winning a playoff game does equate all the time
That the QB is the answer at QB.
If Baker is a,upgrade to the QB position for
Another team then that only means the bar
Is set low there

Did those QB's start the entire season and have a passer rating of 95.9 with 3,563 yards, 26 touchdowns and 8 int's?

It's obvious you're trying too hard.

I can't see Baker retiring. He's still one of the best 32 qbs in the league. He's young.

I agree, I was just responding to the thought that Baker could grab the $18 mill and run.

Yes and the following QBs won Super Bowls, tell me which ones are elite?
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Joe Flacco
Brad Johnson
Jeff Hostetler

I could make an argument that Baker Mayfield is a better fundamental QB than all of those Super Bowl winning QBs. Joe Flacco was the only one even close to Baker's level and he was an eleven year starter in the NFL. I know we have all moved on from Baker, but let's not [censored] on his ability. If these guys could help a team win a Super Bowl (they make up 16% of the Super Bowl winning QBs), Baker Mayfield is capable of doing the same with a well built team around him.

The Browns and the NFL disagree w/your evaluation of Baker.

I'm well aware. And I will be proved wrong by sending him to a team wear Russell Wilson couldn't win either. He had a Baker Mayfield year last year with the latest version of the roster. Now, if they can make some quick headway with the roster and get it back up to snuff...then who knows.

Look, I'm not mad that they moved on from Baker. I don't mind in the least the team upgrading any position. It does depend on the "upgrade" and imho, this upgrade wasn't the massive leap everyone is making it out to be, especially when you take the mental off field issues that come along with him. We will see. Maybe he will be able to bury all of the distraction deep inside his skull and he will still be motivated to improve his craft even after being bribed to play in a place he didn't want to be with the biggest contract in NFL history. You are right, the odds are in your favor...

I like the way you present your arguments. We disagree on some things, but you always take the high road when presenting your points. I respect that.

4 of those Quarterbacks were elite, (Not Flacco), but I am sure of one thing. Jacoby Brissett, if he starts all 17 games this year, the Browns won't win more than 5 games. 5-12
Probably 4-13, or 3-14, so,
Baker, 8 wins + and in the mix in November, or,... on the other hand... multiple losing streaks while every broadcast talks about sex offenders.

Is that an upgrade at the Qb position?

If Brissett is going to start all 17 games, they shouldn't even put the Browns on Television, but the Browns ownership would still not get the message about holding on to their own players, or not getting those players in the first place.

But today I feel, If Brissett is going to start all 17 games for the Browns in 2022, they ought to just show other teams on Columbus Television.
There are 31 NFL teams, that don't trade the entire future for a player the caliber of a top Qb
and then
ask you to sit through a whole year with a quarterback you are sure is even worse than Danny (NY Giants QB) who is the worst you can think of in the entire NFL.

Why not just say, "Good boy. Would you like a treat?"

Two things. It was a pair of Baker supporters who brought up Baker in the Watson thread. Once that occured, others are free to weigh in even if you don't give your approval.

Also, do you have proof that a team has made a legitimate offer to trade for Baker?

Probably no more than you have proof that one hasn't. And legitimate is a tricky term to use. Whether one can actually believe them or not there have been reports everywhere that the Browns and Panthers have actually discussed terms of the trade for Baker but the Browns didn't like the terms due to how much of Baker's salary they would have to eat.

So you have set it up in a way that you can dismiss all of those reports by saying they can't be proven or you could claim that what you see as a low ball offer isn't a "legitimate offer". It's a trick question you can easily dodge no matter what response he gives.

I agree that you can't just accept media reports. But we also know that teams will not reveal any details or make statements that involve ongoing negotiations involving players. So you have framed a question in a manner you know there is no answer to.

j/c:

Better PFF grade than Baker last year.. Perfect,,

This guy is full of it.

1. Keenum is better than Brisset,.,

2. Judging Baker on a year where he was injured is stupid..

Its funny how Baker's 2020 season is supposed to be
The only standard used to draw a opinion on Baker
It's like 2021 is supposed to be thrown away
How did his injury affect his inability to read or diagnosis
Defenses. ?
Even Baker admitted as much he lost his confidence
In 2021. Yet he still kept insisting he was well enough
To start

The Browns FO disagrees w/you. Also, the Browns and other teams have had 4 years to evaluate Baker. They are not stupid.

Which teams should be thinking about making a run at Baker Mayfield?
Posted by Mike Florio on July 3, 2022, 7:40 PM EDT

For weeks, two teams have been linked to Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield — the Panthers and the Seahawks. With all teams in position to study film from offseason workouts and with plenty of teams perhaps not having clear answers at the position, which teams should be at least pondering the possibility of a potential upgrade from their current projected starter to Mayfield?

On this weekend featuring not much actual news, now is as good a time as any to try to identify the universe of teams that should at least be thinking about Mayfield. Here they are, in no particular order.

The Browns.

If Judge Sue L. Robinson decides that Deshaun Watson should miss the entire season, or if on appeal the Commissioner makes that ruling, the Browns will need a quarterback for all of 2022. Mayfield makes the most sense, on paper. Unfortunately, the bridge between Baker and the Browns has been obliterated. The only way to mend fences would be for the Browns to offer him more money and an unimpeded path to the open market in 2023. Even then, it’s probably not enough.

The Steelers.

When the Steelers made quarterback Kenny Pickett the 20th overall pick in the draft, the door seemingly slammed on the possibility of Mayfield making a beeline to the ‘Burgh if he’s ultimately cut by the Browns. But with Pickett by all appearances not ready to play, isn’t Mayfield (if healthy) a better option than Mitch Trubisky? Mayfield definitely is. And while that would be an intriguing answer for 2022, it could throw a wrench in the plans for 2023, if the Steelers have a great year with Mayfield. Some would call that a good problem to have.

The Panthers.

They’re reportedly still haggling with the Browns over the amount of money the two teams would pay toward Mayfield’s 2022 guaranteed salary of $18.8 million. At some point, the logjam needs to be broken. If the Panthers wait too long, one of these other teams may snatch him.

The Falcons.

Baker Mayfield is a better option than Marcus Mariota. Maybe the Falcons will come to terms with that during the slow weeks. Maybe they’ll realize that it won’t get any easier to get people to buy tickets and attend games absent a quarterback who plays well enough to make an NFC South also-ran into a potential contender.

The Seahawks.

Despite periodic reports of significant interest, they’ve done nothing to demonstrate it clearly and conclusively. Maybe they’re simply playing the cards close to the vest in the hopes that he’ll eventually be released. Regardless, the Seahawks are doing a good job of selling the idea that they’re comfortable with Geno Smith or that new darling of the U.S. Open, Drew Lock.

The Saints.

They were one of the teams pursuing Deshaun Watson. That necessarily makes them a potential contender for Mayfield, despite the presence of Jameis Winston. Maybe the Saints genuinely believe that Winston when healthy is better than Mayfield when healthy. Reasonable minds definitely would differ on that point.

The Lions.

Those familiar with this specific web destination may remember that I’ve been trying to type this one into existence. Mayfield is better than Jared Goff. Period. And Mayfield much better fits the current vibe that coach Dan Campbell is trying to create than the California kid who landed in what must feel to him like Bizarro Oz.

The Giants.

The new power structure didn’t pick up the fifth-year option on Daniel Jones. Although they refuse to explain it this way, they basically are betting that he won’t be good enough to make them want to apply the much pricier franchise tag in 2023. Isn’t Mayfield better and more accomplished than Jones? Yes and yes. If the Giants aren’t sold that Jones will be the guy for 2023, why not grab Mayfield now and see if he can become the future for a team that is still trying to adequately replace Eli Manning?

The Texans.

They claim to be all in with Davis Mills. And, in fairness to Mills, he’s possibly working his way toward a fairly high ceiling. Still, if the goal is to win now, Mayfield is the better option. And while they could have had him as part of the Watson trade, the Browns likely would have placed too much value on Mayfield at the time. As part of a separate transaction, the Texans possibly could get him for a lot less.

The 49ers.

Could the best bridge to the Trey Lance era not be Jimmy G. but Baker Mayfield? Maybe. But they’ll be far better off letting Lance commence the process of becoming the best version of himself that he eventually will be.

The Dolphins.

I know I said I’d list the teams in no particular order, but I saved this one for last. TuAnon won’t like this, one bit. But let’s be fair. Mayfield, when healthy, can do much more than Tua has ever done. And with Mike McDaniel drawing up the plays, Mayfield could be exactly what the Dolphins need to hit their full potential in 2022 and beyond. If they can get him for cheap, they definitely should consider it. Even if they won’t.

That’s the full list. It probably means he’ll end up with a team that didn’t make the cut. Regardless, if he’s healthy, Mayfield has the ability to be very good. He could be the difference between making the playoffs and not qualifying. He could be the difference between one-and-out and winning a playoff game or two. Don’t let a 2021 season marred by a nasty Week Two shoulder injury cloud that reality.

Steelers.... well, that would be an interesting place for him to land.

I don't believe that.. If not for the trade for Watson, Baker would be here for at least this year. Beyond that, who knows.

Good morning . Hope you had a,holiday weekend
Now can you elaborate when you said YOU DON'T HAVE CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

cause Baker most indeed did say he lost his confidence.
2nd. Explain to me how Bakers injury caused him
To throw for INTs than TDs in the 2nd half of 2021?
And did his injury relate to him having among the leagues
Worst rating in the 4th q. Of games.

Maybe for once you can admit you were wrong in a Browns
Draft pick. Every year you hype up become a cheerleader
For a player and come to find out, he falls short of
Your hype.
We have all hyped up rookies and they don't pan out.
Just admit it, Baker isn't what you hyped him up to be.
Him,Veikune, Warren .......etc

I think a decision will be made before TC. It feels to me like Seattle are the most likely destination. They can win now - most of the other teams who on paper need an upgrade at QB have much less talent and why give up draft capital when you are a bad team and any deal might net you a one year rental?

Personally I'd like to see Seattle make the trade - I think it'd give us a chance to see who the real Baker is/can be. People judge him on his injury season, some point to his good run in 2020... the truth is probably in between BUT is that truth closer to good Baker which might make him a top 12 QB in the NFL. Or is it bad Baker and then he might be a bottom 5 QB in the NFL.

I don't think it's a dig at Baker at all.

I truly believe Berry has a perceived value for a 4 year starting QB with a playoff win one year removed. Unless he gets that perceived value, there is no reason to cut him, trade him for lessor value, etc. as long as they are in the 90 man off season roster status. Baker taking up one of the 90 means absolutely nothing. Now.. If/when the suspension is handed down, that could elevate the time table to move him. If Watson gets a full year, it could motivate a team that wants him(I'm looking at you Seahawks) to give something closer to what Berry is asking. Right now, every team perceives the Browns needing to cut Baker by July 26th, the day before training camp opens... I'm not sold that it needs to happen then, or at all. Even if they pay him to sit at home, he WILL have a higher trade value before the trade deadline, if/when a starter goes down. Especially on a team that is playoff ready. Not enough starters to go around, even less backups that are good enough to lead a team to the playoffs.

Speaking of which, Jacoby Brissett is that type of player. Those that think he is going to lead this team to the playoffs need to do more evaluating of his two years as a starter. He will get the Browns close to .500, which is about as good as an injured Mayfield did for this team. His best season ever was 2019 when he went 7-8 with a team that had a 1,000 yard rusher in Marlon Mack, what they didn't have was a 1,00 yard receiver of any kind, not even close as the leading receiver was Zach Pascal with 607 yards and 5 TDs. TY Hilton, worst yards per target of his career, 1.5 yards below his average. Jack Doyle had a 6.2 and 6.4 YPT during the two years Brissett started for the Colts, the years, before, in between and after those two seasons? 7.8, 7.4, 7.6.... It isn't a coincidence. If/when Brissett is named the starter, just know the filed just got a lot smaller for the defense to scheme against.

For comparison sake when it comes to stretching the field. In 2017 and 2019, when Brissett was a starter, this was a list of YPT for all receivers getting 25 or more targets

2017
TY Hilton 8.9
Donte Moncrief 8.3
Chester Rogers 7.7
Marlon Mack 6.8
Frank Gore, Jack Doyle 6.4
KAmar Aiken(44 targets) 3.0

2019
Zach Pascal, Marcus Johnson 8.4
TY Hilton 7.4
Eric Ebron 7.2
Chester Rodgers 6.4
Jack Doyle 6.2
Nyheim Hines 5.5
Parris Campbell 5.3

To put it into perspective, Baker's worst years 2019 and 2021(hurt)
2019
Jarvis Landry 8.5
Damien Ratley 8.3
OBJ 7.8
Kareem Hunt 6.5
Nick Chubb 5.7
Demetrius Harris 5.5

2021
Donovan Peoples-Jones 10.3
David Njoku 9.0
Harrison Bryant 8.3
Nick Chubb 7.0
OBJ 6.8
Jarvis Landry 6.6
Kareem Hunt 6.4
Hollywood Higgins, Anthony Schwartz 5.9
Austin Hooper 5.7
D'Earnest Johnson 5.5

Baker during his best(and healthy) season
2020
Donovan People-Jones 15.2
Hollywood Higgins 11.5
Jarvis Landry, OBJ 8.3
David Njoku 7.3
Harrison Bryant 6.3
Austin Hooper 6.2
Kareem Hunt 6.0

Again, this isn't a pull for Baker, Watson's skillset is better than Mayfield without a doubt.. But Brissett is a whole other level of below mediocre QB.

IF Watson were to be suspended. The Browns should eat whatever flavor of crow is needed to beg Mayfield to play his final year out in Cleveland for his next contract if they truly want the best option on the field. As for Baker, he will have a whole set of suitors in the 2023 off-season if he could play a healthy year and take the Browns back to the playoffs. He isn't taking either the Seahawks or Panthers to the playoffs... Despite how he feels about the Browns front office, Cleveland is the best opportunity to showcase any skills he possesses. Then he can stick up the middle finger on the way out the door if he so desires.

I know...burnt bridges, yada yada yada... Be professional on both sides and get him training camp if Watson is suspended for the year. I don't care if you don't like Baker, he gives them the best chance to win. Sorry, but you are delusional if you think otherwise with Brissett, imho.

There is a wide divide regarding Baker as a QB and how much of a factor his injury had on his performance. On this board and quite a few Browns' fans in general along w/a small smattering of people paid to give their opinions you have those that think that Baker is a good qb and that his injury severely hindered his play last year.

On the other hand, there are people like me, guys like Jake Burns, and most media members including former players who think that Baker is very limited as a qb and that most of his poor play had very little to do w/his injuries. We feel that being forced to throw from the pocket, his poor pre-snap reads, terrible post-snap reads, holding the ball too long, and poor vision were huge factors in his play. Many also question his maturity.

Thus, we are never going to reach a common ground on this subject. I really thought that people on this board would finally see the light due to his performance and actions and also how we were so willing to move on from him and how other teams have not placed much value on him, but that did not occur. In fact, people have dug their heels in and typically reply w/attacking the messenger and making things personal.

Who do you think gives the Browns a better chance to win? Baker or Jacoby? That is the ONLY Baker-related thing being presented on this board for months now. You are the only poster here concerned with evaluating Baker...there is no common ground to meet on anymore. Baker or Jacoby is the only debate that matters at the moment.

Ok (kkkkkkkjjjjkjkkkjjjjjjjjjuujhhjj I at it not how Jacoby gives the Browns a mature QB. Brissett isn't going to try to be something he is not.
I think he keeps his ego in check
Some QBS that become journeymen QBs, they are a bit more humble , a little more
AppreciatIve when they have a chance to start.
I think Baker had moments where he tried to hard to be BAKER
Instead of whats best for the team.
Brissett doesn't need a "chip on his shoulder " to be move the chains
That's just a cliche covering up for Baker's short comings as a,QB.

I'm shocked you didn't see tour own reflection as you typed this.

"Mature" doesn't count on my list of QB needs. Can he go through 2 or more progressions, can he throw an out pattern, can he throw the ball on a rope 20 yards down field, can he throw a ball 40 yards down the field without it going so high in the air a safety can camp under it, can he step up in the pocket, can he read a blitz, can he see a disguised defense, can he throw the ball over his line, can he hit timing patterns at a very high percentage, will he check down when his 3rd read is covered, will he slide when not going for an absolute need outside a critical minute of a game, can he throw the receiver to the sideline to protect against a defender? These are all aspects of QB play that will help you to win ball games. I put in some obvious one's that Baker doesn't rank high on the list of, but I don't think mature or appreciation that someone is letting them start some games because the better QB isn't available qualifies to moving the sticks.

The statement was made above, this isn't about Baker Mayfield and how many of these traits he has.... The question on this thread is, which QB between Baker and Jacoby have more? I think it is clear that Baker has more traits to move the chains than does Jacoby. If the coaching staff thinks the same, then if Watson is suspended for 10 games or more, Baker needs to stay, even if that means the coaches, GM and OWNER have to me "mature" and fly to him to talk to him about what is best for his career, as well as that of the team.