DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Back to Football

Yes and Yes ! Like every team we have a few questions - but we have a very good team.

You are naturally more optimistic than I am. This is no exception, but I also think we have a very good team.

It starts and ends w/Watson. I think we can survive him missing 4 games. Anything more than that and I think we are toast in regards to getting to the Super Bowl. The AFC is just loaded w/good teams and quarterbacks. Watson is one of the elite qbs in the league. Certainly in the top 7 and maybe higher. He can elevate others and make game-changing plays.

I think we have the best stable of RBs in the league.

Our guards are the best combo in the league. Conklin, if healthy, is a top tackle in the league. Wills is good enough. Not sure about our center? Still, the OL is one of the very best in the league.

Our TEs are probably below average.

Cooper is a #1, but I question his desire. We do not have a proven #2, #3, or #4 yet.

Our corners are ranked #3 overall by PFF. That's impressive.

Our safeties are probably middle of the pack. Maybe a little bit lower, but that ranking can improve.

I think our LBers are probably below average as a group. Maybe average.

Our two Edge guys our near the top of the league.

The DTS are a question mark.

Not sure about the place kicker and punter at this point.

Coaching is very good. FO is very good.

I think this team is good enough to challenge for the Super Bowl. They will have to stay healthy, have Watson available for all--or almost all--of the season, catch a few breaks, and get momentum on their side at the right time. I had pretty much given up hope after I saw all the talent at qb in the conference, but we now have a shot and it's a great thing to have hope.

I think the game is evolving where you need a franchise QB and franchise WR.
The Browns have 1 of 2.
The Browns will be able to run the ball effectively .but if the offense can't get enough
Big plays out of the WRs then defenses will just crowd the box.
I'm not as high on DPJ as most. He is too inconsistant . I think he only had 2 or 3 games
Over 70 yds last year. Landry did nothing last year much like Higgins
And DPJ failed to step up and make plays when those 2 couldn't

I think somebody like Woods could push Schwartz down the depth chart
Schwartz lacks football instincts for the position

I wouldn't be surprised if David Bell ends up with more targets than DPJ.
DPJ was drafted in the 6th RD for a reason

Jedrick Willis needs to take his game to another level.he has to develop more tenacity
It's a big year for young OT to develop and evolve. Conklin may be injury prone from here on out

Defensively the talent is unabundant. But this defense couldn't make enough plays in the 4th q.last year
I think another LB needs to Rachet his game up.
The defense needs to create more turnovers and takeaways.
NFL games are so decided on the turnover differential and possessions in the 4th q.

I don't think the Browns are a SB team. It's a wild card team. All the better AFC teams
Have stability at the QB position and better WRs overall.
A loaded RB room can't you to the SB anymore
That went out with the 72 Dolphins

Yes, we do have a good team. An argument could be made we have top 5 talent in the league. That's why we went out and signed DW. Our ownership and FO determined that QB was the weak spot. If DW plays, we have a shot at the SB. If not, getting to the playoffs will be tough. JMO

I thought about doing a positional breakdown - but decided to look at this another way: We have no glaring weakness. To win - you do not need a stud at every position. You need a few stars and then decent/good enough players in the other slots to let them do their job or do something special. It's why - despite Clowney not being a stud anymore, just him being good, let's MG be a superstar. It's why Philips, Walker and Taki are good enough to let JOK look like something very special. It's why Harris doesn't need co come in and play like Alex Mack.

I think RB is elite. OL is possibly elite depending on the recovery of Conklin. DL isn't elite across the board - but MG is. LB - JOK is potentially a break out superstar, Walker is good enough and Phillips has a chance to take a giant step forward. CB we are elite. JJ3 and Delphit - I like very much as a safety duo. Harrison is ok if he doesn't keep doing dumb schtick. DT is out most "meh" position. Maybe WR too - but Cooper is better than any WR we've had on the team for a while. DPJ was hurt last year and I think Bell is going to absolutely impress everyone. Interesting the one segment of 92.3 (I think it was) during training camp they had Schwartz on - I'll believe it when I see it but it sounded genuine that this guy is going to break out and contribute too.

Depodesta on CBD, (Cleveland Browns Daily) once again parrots the line.
" you don't win a lot of games in the NFL by scoring field goals."

I take this line, which I've heard this current group of the Browns coaching staff and head front office guys say on multiple occasions now,
as a way to excuse that they won't put in proper perspective, what is one of the top 2 ways to score points in an NFL Game.

When you have a chance at a field goal, you have to take that field Goal.
And Taking those field goals sends a message to your offense also.

It reminds the offense how important 3rd downs are.
If the Head, front office coaching cooperative constantly decides to forego field goals and not get the 3 points, and go for an offensive play on 4th downs, then the Head coaching coop, sends a wrong and damaging message to their own offense,
a message that 3rd downs are somehow less important than they've always been,
and therefore, going the extra mile in effort and precision on 3rd downs isn't as important, because the coach isn't going to make you sit down, they will let you give you another shot, and one which often goes bad, to miss out on the field goal points,
and make a turnover on downs possible.

Field goals matter, those 3 points additions to your score, they add up!

You win less games by going for it on 4th down and failing.

No Quarterback thread.
Drafting the Cleveland Browns roster, mine vs. yours. more specifically drafting the Browns defensive line.
I'm drafting Clowney with the first pick, and assuming the rest of the DTMB would take Myles Garrett.
With the next pick of drafting the Browns DL I'm taking Alex Wright the rookie DE with his potential and leave the next pick, because there is a philosophy to building that defensive line, and the defensive front 7. And you have to have the front 7 to have the back 5.
Once the DL is finished, the Board can have the first pick of any other position.

Pretty much know what to expect with the Offense and Defense, excited about the rookies and seeing the upgrade in the back up positions.

What excites me the most is seeing how the special teams play !

The player I want to see the most successful is Cade York ! I'm excited to see his play ! I really feel he is going to rock this and get the stadium team and fans fired up with his Leg !

Very true.

I guess the thinking is one TD and extra point is worth more than 2 field goals, and that does make some sense.

It also makes sense to take points when you can get them, especially early in the game. In ways, I would rather go for it on 4th and 2 when you are outside field goal range. Between the 40's is prime real estate to go for it.

I thought most of this board liked analytics?

Data shows that going for it on 4th down is better than kicking FGs. It's complicated and there are many factors, but that is the general consensus.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...-plus-2-point-conversion-recommendations

https://bestballstats.com/2021/01/26/go-for-it-a-guide-to-optimal-fourth-down-decision-making/

https://www.nfl.com/news/introducin...guide-a-new-analytics-tool-for-fourth-do

Bonefish, I'm also excited about having Jakeem Grant on STs

It was an area of much needed improvement.

Excited about the ones who will be on STs, Lets see who ends up on that squad !

This is giant. I don't know why? sorry

What does PFF say about the Patriots roster, the Patriots, cleaned the Browns Clock(s) last year, and they did it with whatever roster, the game wasn't even close,
So a top 10 roster won't guarantee any wins whatsoever.

They'll have to find out how to actually earn the wins, find out what that recipe is.

What’s ironic about the QB fixation this off-season is that I feel like, if coached properly and the right sort of offense and defense is maximized, this is an excellent team for a “manager QB” to succeed in. What’s probably going to be a top 10 and maybe top 5 D, excellent OL and maybe the best running game in the league, and decent if not spectacular possession reviewers. Not perfect but if played right could be methodical, lunchpail, clock chewing team. In fact, a Brissett type might actually thrive more than a gunslinger Mayfield type even though he’s not as talented. Of course if you have Watson it opens up a whole different chapter of the playbook but this team can consistently beat all but the top tier with a manager who doesn’t turn it over and gets simple first downs IF the coaching is smart.

Top 5 Rb duo and top 5 Defense, ( The players were here last year and where was it?)

This may have been explained on the podcast that originates from the team facility in Berea. Discussing the top 10 roster ranking, A representative came on and said they factored Watson avail.to the Browns for a full year, but that the system docks points from anyone who for whatever reason, didn't play at all the previous year.

Our qb last year was ranked 30th by PFF. He was dead last in 4th quarter QBR. Watson is a top-tier qb. That should help winning some close games.

Fixed it.

To be fair, as bad as he was, Baker was still ranked way above Watson last year.

The year prior, Watson was Top 5 and went 4-12, Baker was Top 10 and went 11-5 and won a playoff game.
Better, but close to interchangeable.

And yet he played. There is a saying "you are what you put on tape". If he was injured to the point he couldn't put good football on tape maybe he should have sat his butt down.

He showed very poor play last year after the injury.

I had hopes for Baker after the playoff win. After his injury it became apparent he wasn't playing well, he continued to play. It was quoted that it was his choice. He choose poorly, now he has to live with that.

I was just answering Throw's question about why PFF might have us ranked so high and what might be the difference from last year to this year.

I thought
Anyway, Carry on. ...
Back to Football
Drafting the Browns' Defensive line, on my side, I have Clowney, and 2nd round pick Alex Wright.
On the opposing side, Y'all have Myles Garrett and the next player is up in the air.

Given those choices, is the 4th best, or next draftable player from the Browns current Defensive Line to pair with Myles Garrett on a side where the other side includes Wright, and Clowney, is the next best choice.
A. Perrion Winfrey - the rookie 3rd round pick who had a passionate interview introduction.
B Taven Bryan - the Former 1st round pick of the Jaguars who the Jags declined a 5th year on
C Jordan Elliott who is the projected starter after the departure of Malik Jackson from last year.
D. Sheldon Day- the long tenured Brown who hasn't started a lot,
Or someone else, maybe one of the remaining Defensive Ends.
Chase Winovich, Stephen Weatherly, Curtis Weaver, Isaiah Thomas, or Isaac Rochelle,
or could it be, Tommy Togiai- going into his 2nd year, or Glen Logan the LSU DT udfa who has played at a large weight in the past.
Or someone I forgot. Stephen Weatherly, Roderick Perry,
( Because, who is going to stop the run?)

I'm looking forward to camp starting and being able to get a look at Winfrey and the DT's. This defense really will go only as far as they hold up.... otherwise, it will be like last year when a non-running QB will be able to scramble for an eleventy-seven yard first down and there'll be nothing we can do about it.

There is! actually a point: because in the 2000-and ahem Super Bowl, the Arizona Cardinals with Kurt Warner,
(Hall of Famer Kurt Warner.) (Hall of famer?, should be.) the Arizona Cardinals met the Pittspuke steelers and the Cardinals got Robbed by the Refs, and the Cardinals lost the game even if they may have had an advantage early in the game, (memories?)

But! What I do remember, from that game. And, even if the Cardinals got Jobbed and Robbed by the refs, what stands out in my memories, and is of the UTMOST importance in football, (even American 7s' football where they don't wear helmets)
the basic staple food of football is Run Defense, and the Arizona Cardinals, a Super Bowl Participating team in that year,
had Piss Poor Run Defense on at least 2 major plays in that game.
Not just "oops" but "what the freak" run defense in that game. The Super Bowl. The Browns are 3 months from game 6 or 7 of their regular season schedule and even PFF and others agree the only weakness of the Browns roster are the interior defensive tackles.
What the heck?
You mean the run stoppers, the line holders?

Don't worry, Jordan Elliott, ( Jordan rollerskates Elliott ) is going to start?

Everyone on this message board has seen 100,000 football games. If your team can't stop the run, EVERYONE knows what happens.
What the heck are the Browns going to do, if they can't stop the run.
The 2 Maliks' aren't coming back. Larry O and whoever they had in 2020 isn't back either. Somebody has to stop the Run or it doesn't matter what Anybody else does on the entire team. Anybody.
If you don't stop the run you lose.
(Unless of course it's the 2021 Browns who lost a game with a ton of offensive rushing yards, but hey, analytics )

I don't think the field is eleventy-seven yards long, maybe diagonaly, it'd stop when he crosses the goal line.

The HC makes the starting roster, not the players. And when he did finally make his own decision to sit in the last game of the season when they were no longer any playoff implications, people say he quit on the team. It seems according to many fans it was a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation of what choice was made.


He most certainly did. Which is exactly why I pointed out he was playing injured. He played much better the season before, led the Browns to the playoffs and won a playoff game when he wasn't injured. He threw for over 80% completions in the first two games in 2021 before his injury. I find it quite disingenuous when people try to isolate his play based on the worst while omitting the best.


If in fact the HC allows his players to dictate who starts, that means the HC has relegated his responsibility to his players. That's not how any of that is supposed to work. You can choose to blame the player for that if you like.

Andy Kauffman was going to go back to reading "the Great Gatsby" on stage if the crowd didn't behave.

I think Harrison Bryant is going to make a big jump.

And yet players make the final call on if they can play. No one shoved him on the field and said "play or die".

And to be fair none of us know what happened in the locker room, but we know Baker was still going on on the field and he can override everyone and not play. He is also the only person responsible for his play. The coaches can help him succeed, and the can set him up to fail, but he is a professional at his job and he bears the ultimate responsibility for his play.

By the end of the season he had played half a season too long, then stopped. That really wasn't a good look either, especially with him walking out on the press etc. He already had a reputation (rightfully or wrongly) for being immature and last season he really didn't do anything to change that.

You are only as good as your last game or only as good as your tape. He was horrible last year, it will be an uphill climb for him, the reputation forimmaturity will only make it harder on him.

You're right, the medical staff makes the call if they're able to play. Not if they can play well or as good as normal, but that the injury is not severe enough to stop them from playing nor that the injury has much of a chance to get worse if they do play. So much for the dramatic, "play or die" part.


Sure, once the medical staff clears him to play and the coach names him the starter, he can refuse to play. Speaking of immaturity and quitting on the team. Even you know how everyone would have reacted to that. Baker is a competitor. I can't think of any athlete that would choose to sit on the bench if he has been cleared to play by the medical staff and named the starter by his coach. That is the very reason the HC has the final say. If you left it up to the athlete a lot of them would still play if they just had a kidney removed.


And you blame that on the coach not sitting him down.


I'm sure those who are actually in professional sport understand how playing with an injury, especially a shoulder injury, not to mention the leg injuries during the season, especially by a QB hampers his production and performance. I'm sure they have his 2020 game film as well as the game film of his first two healthy games of 2021. Now if you're speaking about fans who have chosen not to be objective I agree with you.

Really you could have just stopped there.

No, not really but great way to dodge the discussion. Touche' if that was your goal. #you'rejustheretofight