DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Another Mass Shooting Thread. Cause....

Right?? Wanting to ban it simply because they didn't like it or understand it. Insanity.

The LP bonfires, Tipper Gore, and her legacy, the RIAA Parental Advisory stickers. Such stupidity.

Imagine if anyone ever came out thinking that alcohol was the Devil's sauce, and made efforts to ban it?

Ummm... that happened... Prohibition.

He was being facetious.

j/c...

**Warning...Graphic**

What a complete failure on the Uvalde PD.

https://www.statesman.com/story/new...ntary-shows-police-response/65370384007/

I don't know a thing about their training, but it seemed like courage was what was lacking. I can't imagine sitting still in the hall while kids are being killed if I'm armed like they were. Like I said, I don't know about their training, and they may have followed procedure, but damn man, save the kids.

Based on what I've read, the 'issue' or the 'lack' is not limited to 1 thing. The sniper had a shot on the guy and didn't take it because he was waiting on a thumbs up from a superior.

Man, that was upsetting to watch.

In a situation like this, that's unacceptable. And the sniper would have had his ass ripped if he fired without a green light. Sigh. We complicate these situations because we can't get out of our own way. I get trying to keep the officers as safe as possible while DOING their jobs, and I recognize the anti-cop atmosphere they deal with daily, but I don't get letting BS like this keep them from saving kids when that was their primary job.

I seem to remember reading that the department policy would have allowed the sniper to take the shot. Likely gun shy from all the crap cops get in shootings these days.

Correct, I should've been more clear. He DID have the thumbs up, but wasn't sure that he did.

Well we all know how much flack cops get if they kill a mass school shooter who is in the act of killing kids.

I understand that human reactions can vary greatly when watching such an emotional scene, so I am not projecting my feelings on others, but simply expressing how I felt while watching the video.

--I'm still distressed that the shooter was able to enter the school. From experience, I do know that some teachers don't follow the rules and there are many doors that are left ajar.

--I was completely outraged watching the shooter walking down the hall w/purpose. I wanted to jump down there and strangle him w/my bare hands. What possesses anyone to want to commit mass murder.

--I was heartbroken thinking about the reactions of the children who were in that school in general and that room in particular. I have to add in that child in the hallway. I can't even fathom having for children having to endure such a thing.

--I was completely frustrated w/the reaction of the police as I watched the time stamp ticking onward.

Everything about this situation is tragic. And it's going to happen again and again.

Not sure if this was sarcasm or a really poor attempt at humor.

We have people demonstrating and activist groups and politicians calling for justice for the incident in Akron where a dude shot at police and after they had already tried tasers. It's not hard to understand if a police officer is hesitant to use deadly force, even if it's wrong.

My understanding is that there was a whole bunch of hesitation and time wasting going on that day. That points to systemic issues (IMO), whether it be training, communication, leadership, etc.

I agree w/your general premise. There is absolutely no doubt that police officers have been severely compromised and put in even far greater danger due the amount of negative attention that police shootings have received from the media and a significant percentage of our population.

However, I am not sure if that applies in this particular situation. I don't know that for a fact, but there were breakdowns in the protocol, decision making, and execution from law enforcement. It was really frustrating to watch/read about how they handled this particular situation.

But again, I think your point is a good one and it needs to be addressed on a larger scale. I think we are actually endangering more lives due to all the negative scrutiny placed upon law enforcement in regards to shootings.

And I repeat, nobody has ever complained about a cop taking out a school shooter. You know as well as I do there's no comparison to be made there.

No, no one has complained about your specific example made for solely for argument. People have complained about use of force in general, and there has been a lot of complaining. I know cops that have said it makes them worry that they will hesitate in a situation they shouldn't. When you get told nonstop your job is hunting and killing citizens it takes a toll.

But people have complained, both correctly and incorrectly, where the officer made an incorrect judgement call that killed the person in question. That officer with the rifle who could've taken the shot was outside the building, watching the gunman walk in (before said gunman got into the classroom and started killing). At that point, he was not a school shooter, as he hadn't shot anyone yet.

It's 6 of one, half dozen of another... they made the wrong decision which is something we can all agree on. The 'why' behind it is up for debate, if perhaps irrelevant.

You're the one who tried to compare this specific example of a mass school shooting to other scenarios.


Not in reference to mass shootings and especially school shooting which was the topic you replied to.


Stop pretending that has anything to do with a mass school shooting when even you know it doesn't. And 77 minutes isn't "hesitating".

So then you're not trying to pretend that mass school shootings are comparable to other police encounters?

Umm, no I said he was already cleared to shoot by policy and MAY have been worried about all the blowback these days. You choose to specifically ignore the important part to argue speculation



My reply pointed out he was cleared by policy to take the shot, not that people were complaining about police killing mass shooters. This is a perfect example of what people mean by moving the goal posts.



The sniper did not have the suspect as a target for 77 minutes. He hesitated because he was unclear on if he could take the shot, and that allowed the shooter into the building. Again, moving the goal posts so you have an attack surface for your inborn need to fight.

And you can stop trying to tell others what to do and what they know, think and feel.

I wanted to kick the butt of the guy with hand sanitizer.

You were actually speaking about him being gun shy being connected to this specific example.

And you can stop denying what you have posted. But you never seem to.

In a speculative way to understand a possibility about why he didn't shoot when he was cleared by policy.

Cops have been second guessing and hesitating due to the political environment.

But you must need to deflect twist and fight.

You said 77 minutes isn't hesitation, so you contend he stared at the shooter for 77 minutes? You failed to reasses your statement. You are welcome for the reminder.

Since their training was to quickly and actively confront an active shooter, the entire police department hesitated for 77 minutes....

Uvalde police were trained to quickly confront an active shooter. So why did they wait?

After Columbine, FBI training urged that fast action is critical to saving lives. Somehow that lesson hasn’t been learned

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/04/uvalde-police-training-school-shooter-response-time

There has been NO political environment surrounding mass school shootings that even slightly indicates an officer or in this case an entire police department should hesitate while a gunman slaughters innocent children. That premise is ridiculous.

True, but for arguments sake, what happens if he sees the guy in the school with the gun and shoots him. And then it turns out to be "a good guy with a gun" trying to address the situation?

I am not trying to justify anyone's actions. Just exploring different scenarios.

Nope.


This is more along the lines of what I was saying. Leadership, communication, and action were lacking everywhere that day.

Yeah, seemed an odd time to decide you need clean hands.

Again I was referring to the sniper that could have stopped this and did not.

There is a political environment surrounding police and use of force. There is an agenda to paint police as violent killers that hunt (mostly black) people. It is there. Defund them so they don't kill us. You can deny it, you can put your head in the sand, you can deflect all you like. The police I have talked to about it worry about it. Every day. They make a bad call they get crucified even if they survive a criminal trial. Lives get ruined even in good shoots.

Yeah, I'd say there could be some hesitation to ensure that he was clear, even if he had a clear from a policy stand point. Your google search for an argument doesn't seem to address the sniper directly.

And none of that has been associated with mass school shootings. As Casey Kasem used to say.... "Keep reaching for the stars."

Dealing with mass shootings is a use of force situation.

I know your habit is to deny when you are wrong but you are wrong.

Also the daily abuse from the defend agenda takes toll on cops. That baggage goes into every situation theft find themselves in. This reaction, or lack thereof, was not in total isolation from everyday life. It isn't just a point in time with no prior context.

It's obvious you needed a fight and you went for it. Get some help. See a professional. You really need it.

Mmmm hmmmmm......

I'm sure small town cops like in Uvalde felt that pressure every day. Do go on.....

Well at least we've now agreed there is an agenda towards cops.

We have Browns fans worldwide, I bet even in small towns they've seen negative press, especially during the bad times and have been affected by it.

And again, my reason was speculative, which I pointed out and you ignore as you lose the attack surface.

I see you did decide to go on. No matter what depths you must continue to crawl to in an effort to do so.

Oh did you miss your last word?

j/c...

I am all for passing this act and I can't imagine why anyone would vote against it. However, I'm not sure how much it will help.

It’ll be about as helpful as a bandaide on a bullet wound.

My guess is there are some who voted Nay just because it came from the opposite party, and others because what I can find on it, is it is more about passing legislation to make a plan for what to do. There is no real set plan of how it will work, what activates it, etc from what I can find.

I take no message from the "those evil (insert party) voted against the (public good)" bill articles. There are usually so many other non related items thrown into those bills that only one party would vote for them. It's where the argument for line item veto comes in. Like when they inserted funding for the Kennedy Library into the pandemic stimulus package, and then slammed people for voting against the "COVID Relief for the Poor bill"