I think what you're speaking to goes along the lines with what has been done at the United Nations over the years - various conventions and whatnot - in a pool much more diverse than what we have. Of course, basic human rights, such as killing and whatnot, are not tolerated, as per your example.
The logical balance can change over time - as does the "reasonable person" standard you and I have often contended with throughout the course of our respective careers, yet it still remains the measuring stick. Not directly correlating it to this incident FATE mentioned, but for the sake of discussion with things like drag shows, I think a reasonable person standard would be that they have every right to have the shows and celebrate their culture, but doing so - especially in a hypersexualized way - for a school-related event would be the tipping point violating the second prong.
There is always the potential for obfuscation, like what you are inferring, wherein one person's logic may not apply to another's, but if we're putting things down to brass tacks, there are still objective approaches and precedent to be applied based on society, common law, basic human principles, etc. that can be inferred and applied as such.
I think the biggest fight nowadays is rather extreme movements drastically intended to change current objective cultural paradigms rather swiftly, in two very different directions, lending toward pendulum-like volatility, which frankly creates a dynamic of fear, anger, militarism, etc. that we are currently witnessing on multiple levels of our society (cultural, political, religious/anti-religious, etc.). What tends to be the center of ire from all these various groups are those who are trying to remain objective and logical in their thought process and considerations, IMO.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
One party exudes hate, denialism, and lies everywhere 24/7. This stuff goes way beyond political jockeying. The bastardization of what free speech actually is to cover for bad behavior seems like the new GOPer schtick.
We are exactly where politicians want us to be, focused on our differences, fighting amongst ourselves over things that if people sat down face to face would realize they are closer on most topics than they realize when they quit bickering target points and really discuss the issues.
Social media, main stream media, digital text all remove the human interaction factor that used to get things resolved. We now only interpret what some pixels on the screen mean, what the writer meant, through the lens of our own preconceived notions, and not with the benefit of the writers emotional gesture, body language, vocal inflections, all of which can drastically change the delivery of words, lost in digital context.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
I agree with you to a large extent, and I think that is still the case in a lot of circumstances. However, I think more and more people are too far gone, which, to your point, may be an after-effect of the dynamic that you mention.
That became apparent to me when I tried to have face-to-face discussions with my brother and my sister a little over a year ago. I don't consider myself very fiery or stubborn in my delivery or my viewpoints, but goodness, you would have thought - from their eyes - that I was a deep state propagandist or something during that conversation. Man, the amount of recoil was insane. My family has become an echo chamber. And these were people who previously were resolute in their viewpoints, but listened and engaged. Now, it's instant recoil and rage. There is no getting through.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
We are exactly where politicians want us to be, focused on our differences, fighting amongst ourselves over things that if people sat down face to face would realize they are closer on most topics than they realize when they quit bickering target points and really discuss the issues.
Social media, main stream media, digital text all remove the human interaction factor that used to get things resolved. We now only interpret what some pixels on the screen mean, what the writer meant, through the lens of our own preconceived notions, and not with the benefit of the writers emotional gesture, body language, vocal inflections, all of which can drastically change the delivery of words, lost in digital context.
QFT.
You have to be pretty blind to think this is one side.
I agree - but that does not mean, for example, when the Ex-president removes top secret documents he has no right to from the Oval Office, then lies about it, then lies again about it and then instructs his lawyer to write knowingly false statements to the Govt. . . . . that it's all the same and just political theater. Some of this schtick is a real problem. Trump is an outlier in my minds - just a bare faced grifter out for himself alone. The real inherent problem with politics is the likes of Moscow Mitch, Desantis, Pelosi, etc
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The problem is how Trump changed the game. I would actually put DeSantis in his own category, but I agree with you on Mitch and Pelosi. The biggest problem with those two morons is that they have been part of a gang of aging, self-interested, corrupt, blow-hards who have been in power too long, and fail to plainly see how the way they played "the game" was eventually going to lead to someone like Trump. Now they're acting like they have some moral high-ground and that they just need to get everything back to being good. The problem is their "good" wasn't good at all and they're too disinterested and far-gone to see that.
Trump - for all his flaws - recognized a perfect opportunity to insert himself as an outsider. He was - and still is - powering himself first and foremost through rage and resentment, which, honestly, is pretty warranted considering how horrific, corrupt and self-interested people like Mitch and Nancy were during their drawn-out careers when they controlled the legislatures. What wasn't warranted was how that rage turned into growing extremism and and reaction where many people seemed to shut down their objectivity and critical thinking altogether. Trump channeled all that for himself on the right, but the left is pretty splintered now, too. It's ripe for a similar style hostile takeover, however, I don't know who the person would be that would do that.
Going back to DeSantis. I think he's the potential next step on the right. I always use Game of Thrones references referring to him as Petyr Baelish because that's how I think he plays the game. He's far smarter than Trump, less impulsive, and a more refined politician, which I think actually makes him more potentially dangerous in many ways, even though I think he's more of a rational actor than Trump. He knows how to create and take advantage of chaos. He also knows how to stir the pot and galvanize rage in his favor by creating a multitude of villains. I think he's waiting for his moment to usurp, and I think that many on the far right want that as well, because he has a much better chance of beating Biden than Trump. As a matter of fact, I think he'd mop the floor with Biden. The problem is that Trump wants to be the guy and that's a big hurdle to overcome. If Trump gets indicted or has to bow out for any other reason, I think that he might feign anger on the matter, but in reality, he would be elated to take the reins.
Last edited by dawglover05; 10/20/2203:42 PM.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Hong Kong protester dragged into Manchester UK Chinese consulate grounds and beaten up.
A Hong Kong pro-democracy protester was pulled into Chinese consulate grounds in Manchester on Sunday and beaten up. Unidentified men came out of the consulate and forced a man inside the compound before he escaped with the help of police and other demonstrators. The protester told the BBC: "They dragged me inside, they beat me up." The UK government called the reports "extremely concerning". The consulate says protesters displayed an insulting portrait of China's president. The Foreign Office said it was urgently seeking clarity on the incident. Greater Manchester Police has launched an investigation. Speaking after the incident, the protester, called Bob, told BBC Chinese that "mainlanders" - people from mainland China, as opposed to Hong Kong - had come out of the consulate and destroyed their posters. "As we tried to stop them, they dragged me inside, they beat me up," he said, adding that he was then pulled out by the UK police. "It's ridiculous. They [the attackers] shouldn't have done that. We are supposed to have freedom to say whatever we want here [in the UK]."
Close the consulate. Tell them immunity for the people responsible is revoked if they’re not out in a couple days.
Man, with this and those reports of the secret police stations, I’m worried Xi is about to pull a Putin.
If you think strategically, from their point of view, it is the perfect time. You have a USA that is politically torn in two, a weak administration (enhanced by the political divide), and the USA having to deal with a Russia problem. Now is a good time to exert their Manifest Destiny because I am sure they see it as such.
We have to be honest here. We have or potentially had the same problem with Cuba. If there was a strong Russian or Chinese presence on the island, we would be more aggressive in our determination to get them the heck off the island. I don't think we would be satisfied with a simple trade embargo and refuse to have diplomatic relations.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Trudeau orders an immediate freeze on the sale of handguns in Canada
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is placing a nationwide freeze on the sale, purchase and transfer of handguns, effective immediately.
The handgun freeze is the latest in an ongoing battle among Canadian lawmakers over gun control measures. In parliament, legislators are still debating the passage of a bill, introduced in May, that would be one of the strongest pieces of gun control legislation in decades. The new handgun freeze is an "immediate action" the Trudeau administration said it is taking as conversation around the bill continues.
"When people are being killed, when people are being hurt, responsible leadership requires us to act," Trudeau said at a news conference on Friday, announcing the new measure. "Recently again, we have seen too many examples of horrific tragedies involving firearms."
Update: People can no longer buy, sell, or transfer handguns within Canada – and they cannot bring newly acquired handguns into the country.
— Justin Trudeau (@JustinTrudeau) October 21, 2022 In addition to a ban on handgun sales, it is also now forbidden to bring newly acquired handguns into Canada. The freeze is being met with elation from gun reform groups who welcomed the immediate action.
"Reducing the proliferation of handguns is one important example of the evidence-based measures Canada needs to reduce gun violence and save lives," Canadian Doctors for Protection from Guns tweeted in response to the news.
But the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights argues that placing stricter legislation on guns does not decrease gun violence.
Shootings in Canada are on the rise, although the rate of violent deaths by firearms there is still a fraction of those in the U.S. Trudeau began steadily introducing gun reforms after one of Canada's deadliest shootings in history two years ago. The prime minister banned 1,500 models of assault-style firearms and variants of AR-15 rifles in 2020.
"Our goal, over time, is to see the amount of handguns, in our communities, reduced," Trudeau said at Friday's news conference.
They are only banning handguns? Do they already have a ban on rifles or something? Otherwise it seems this is missing a big piece if they are trying to curb gun violence.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
We are exactly where politicians want us to be, focused on our differences, fighting amongst ourselves over things that if people sat down face to face would realize they are closer on most topics than they realize when they quit bickering target points and really discuss the issues.
Social media, main stream media, digital text all remove the human interaction factor that used to get things resolved. We now only interpret what some pixels on the screen mean, what the writer meant, through the lens of our own preconceived notions, and not with the benefit of the writers emotional gesture, body language, vocal inflections, all of which can drastically change the delivery of words, lost in digital context.
QFT.
You have to be pretty blind to think this is one side.
We need to also recognize that media (social, news and other types) get more clicks and views by promoting division and outrage. The money is with the passionate ones.
I look forward to the days of boring politics, but know that they are extinct as the dodo bird or country club republican.
But it also prompts me to ask: What must we, as 'consumers of info' do to counteract the media narrative spin that establishes the walls of our respective info silos?
Same thing we were told to do when when the world first started competing for our face time...
"Go outside and play".
Maybe the cheap, shallow-minded answer; but it's a start.
So true. I actually deleted all my social media accounts about a year ago, even though I seldom checked them over the last few years. I just found them to be all drama, even from "friends", even before they became more "random" ad posts and less "friends".
I seldom watch the news on TV either. Basically, I think I've disconnected from the world, and my life has been much more relaxing since.
I spend a lot of time working on house projects, watching sports, tinkering in the garage, or playing games online with our son.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
I tend to listen to Smerconish on SiriusXM in the morning. Don’t agree with everything he does but for a show that is trying to play it down the middle he does pretty well.
Same thing we were told to do when when the world first started competing for our face time...
"Go outside and play".
Maybe the cheap, shallow-minded answer; but it's a start.
So true. I actually deleted all my social media accounts about a year ago, even though I seldom checked them over the last few years. I just found them to be all drama, even from "friends", even before they became more "random" ad posts and less "friends".
I seldom watch the news on TV either. Basically, I think I've disconnected from the world, and my life has been much more relaxing since.
I spend a lot of time working on house projects, watching sports, tinkering in the garage, or playing games online with our son.
I've considered deleting mine... I try really hard to keep mine to things I find important... I also only have three social medias... I have IG to promote a business of mine... FB where I try to mainly stick to groups that I'm interested in (non-political) and then I have Tiktok for entertainment...
Any of my FB friends that gets too political I'll typically unfollow... on either end of the spectrum.... I have some extreme right friends I've unfollowed and extreme left friends I've unfollowed... don't need that crap on my feed...
Didn't really know where to put this, so I thought this thread could work. This resonated with me. I often times did not agree with Obama, but I certainly would have sat down with him and many others to discuss policies in a constructive way. Things really suck now.
I think this goes back to the conversation where FATE and I had when we discussed “calling out our own.” I have started to do that, and it has somewhat damaged my relationship with my family, but I think it has given them some semblance of awareness in their actions.
And I’m not even talking about being right or wrong when discussing politics. Just the idea of listening and avoiding that reinforced instinct to reflexively fling poo when you just hear a name or a party, because we’ve become mindless as a result. Our advanced logical thinking as a species is suppressed and overcome by our primal fear and anger instincts.
I think to some degree what it will take to overcome that is those of us who still want to live in a constructive world both calling out those that we’re close with, while also being willing to reach out to those we disagree with to be constructive. __________________________________________________________
Lee Moran Fri, November 18, 2022 at 4:41 AM Barack Obama reflected Thursday on what he could do when running for the U.S. Senate in Illinois in the early 2000s that he most likely couldn’t do now — because of Fox News and social media.
In an interview with “The Daily Show,” the former president recalled campaigning in rural, mainly conservative areas and still connecting with voters on a personal level, even though they were skeptical of his progressive ideas.
“There wasn’t the filter that has been created by Fox News or the media infrastructure, the right-wing conspiracy theory folks, and so they came at me with an open mind,” he told host Trevor Noah.
“I could listen to them and they could listen to me and at the end of the day, they might say, ‘Well he’s a little liberal for our taste, but we have something in common,’ ― like the love they have for their children,” Obama continued. “There was some sense of connection.”
“I think the filter now has become so thick,” he said. “It started with Fox News and some of the other traditional media, and now with social media that’s gotten turbocharged. If you go into those same communities now, they have so many preconceptions about what somebody like me believes, cares about, etc., that it’s very hard to penetrate.”
That’s why it’s important for people to try to break through their information bubbles, said Obama, including progressives, because “we have some preconceptions that bring barriers as well.”
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