DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Are the Browns facing cap hell..?

As far as I know the cap for 2023 has not been made public. But what is known is that there were new TV contract deals reached that should allow for a huge increase in cap space. As such I highly doubt the browns have anything to worry about in regards to cap space moving forward.

Me neither, but I plan to write a strongly worded letter to Berry nonetheless.

Thanks for the heads up.

No. The Browns are not facing "cap hell."

I will try to make this as simple as I can. If the Browns decide to restructure Watson's contract to free up 35.963M as stated above, this is what will happen to the Browns going forward:

Current state: 2023 Watson Base salary is 46M plus 8.993M prorated bonus which equals a total cap charge of 54.993M for 2023.

To free up 35.963M in cap space for 2023, the Browns would have to restructure Watson's 46M base salary and convert it to additional prorated bonus. The problem is that per NFL salary requirements, a team can only use 5-years to spread out that money. Being that this will only be year 2 of Watson's deal - they can only add 1-year which would be a void year since he's only under contract for 4 more years. Watson's new contract structure will look like this if the Browns do the restructure as stated above (all guaranteed):

2023 Base Salary___1,000,000 Prorated Bonus___17,993,000___Total Cap Charge 2023___18,993,000___________A cap savings of 36,000,000 from the original 55,993,000
2024 Base Salary__46,000,000 Prorated Bonus___17,993,000___Total Cap Charge 2024___63,993,000
2025 Base Salary__46,000,000 Prorated Bonus___17,993,000___Total Cap Charge 2025___63,993,000
2026 Base Salary__46,000,000 Prorated Bonus___17,993,000___Total Cap Charge 2026___63,993,000
No Contract - Void Year
2027 Base Salary________Zero Prorated Bonus____9,000,000___Total Cap Charge 2027____9,000,000

The JJ3 cut post June 1 does save the Browns 9.75M in 2023. What isn't told in the post is that a post June 1 cut of JJ3 will cost the Browns a cap hit of 8.85M in 2024.

Just an FYI

No.

/Thread

That looks like a solid take and factually accurate from the limited knowledge I have.

I'm no Cap Expert. I do know a team can (and do) find ways to create cap room. I know the cap escalates and is going up every year. I also know that the idea that you can simply give one player the largest guaranteed contract in the history of the NFL and somehow there isn't a bubble that is created that needs constant moving and inventive ways to work around is silly. Of course having Watson's contract on the books is a huge deal and limits what you can do. As is not having 1st round picks the next 2 years. As is having to replace JJ3 - Clowney and any other starter on the OL or other positions on the team. I mean we COULD throw a 2nd or 3rd round rookie on a cheap contract, or a cheap free agent .... but it has a huge impact and means we are relying on luck that the pick up is viable.

I'm not panicking - but the idea that this is no big deal is way too convenient a way to 'handle' the discussion.

I would certainly agree that it limits the future moves the FO can make in regards to signing players. I see cap hell as being above the cap and having to cut players to get under the cap. I guess your definition of what cap hell actually means will impact your opinion of whether the Browns are in it or not.

Nope, we are fine. But I'm worried about 2035, we may have to cut a few people before then.

I don't think Berry will get into "Cap Hell" as in having to cut players. But it means instead of signing a DE like Clowney for $10M - maybe we can only offer $8M for his replacement. Instead of Teller at $14M you are signing a guy at $10M per. etc etc etc .... right down to your 2nd and 3rd string guys possibly.

There are guys in the NFL on smaller contracts playing better than the guys on bigger $$$ - but finding them, identifying/prioritizing them and landing them consistently ??? A whole different ball game.

To add to that ... the % of the salary cap you pay your QB has been the subject of discussion and articles. I definitely remember an article pointing to the success of teams getting success with (top performing) QB's on the ROOKIE deals so that the $$$ can be spent on the rest of the team.... We have the reverse of that. As a % Watson will be very high - the rest of the team is going to get less.

I would say you summed up my opinion on the mater pretty well.

Berry should have signed Jerry Hughes and Melvin Ingram in the offseason instead of plowing all that money in to Clowney. Would've cost ~$8M and could've have rotated each player in and out keeping them fresh and getting greater production for less money.....but that's for another thread!

I agree with this, Deshaun's 4th contract is liable to be a doozie. Charley Hughlett will likely then have to take a step down from league's highest paid long snapper... or take a hike... no pun intended.

Justin Houston was another option. We could have signed two for the price of one.

Yes the role over cap money is enough money to resign
Conklin and Willis due you extend them or send the message that
You can not afford 25 to 30 level tackles for you 250 million
Qb.
Pocic will get a contract on Bitonio level so we have to let him go
Harrison another free agent who is his replacement.
Williams he walks
How due stop buffalo's wr Miami wide receiving group plus Kc wide receing group
Cincinnati wr
Pittsburgh they are probably licking there chops at facing Emerson 1on1

Clowney contract hits the salary cap at 10,900,000
If he walks this year

Yes the role over cap money is enough money to resign
Conklin and Willis due you extend them or send the message that
You can not afford 25 to 30 level tackles for you 250 million
Qb.
Pocic will get a contract on Bitonio level so we have to let him go
Harrison another free agent who is his replacement.
Williams he walks
How due stop buffalo's wr Miami wide receiving group plus Kc wide receing group
Cincinnati wr
Pittsburgh they are probably licking there chops at facing Emerson 1on1

Clowney contract hits the salary cap at 10,900,000
If he walks this year

We always worry about the cap and it never comes to fruition. I am of the belief that the FO can manipulate stuff however they want with bonuses, restructures etc

I agree. Other teams have been reported to be in cap hell, but they always field a decent team.

The cap is going up. Once we know where it is going, then we can see if we are in trouble or not.

My bet is we will be fine.

But it also goes to part of the issue ... how easy/hard is it to identify the "cheap" solid players to acquire that will stay healthy and contribute as starters or quality rotation? How many fans were screaming NOT to sign Clowney and for us to go hard for Ingram and Hughes? A couple seasons ago I wanted to trade for Trent Williams, so did a few others ... that's another move we should have made, then trade back in that draft instead of drafting Wills.... but we can play the hindsight game forever. Berry and Co get graded on what they actually do. And it's not easy. For every move they make that is right (or that one of us wants to make) there are normally 3 or 4 others that don't pan out.

I think it was Ndamukong Suh that influenced the situation of the Browns not signing Ndamukong Suh.

I don't think there was much interest either way.

FYI: Suh reached out to the Browns multiple times on Social Media saying he would be a good fit in Cleveland. It's been reported [by Mary Kay, I think] that the Browns were not interested.

A head scratcher for sure....

Just to clarify. I don't know if that is true. It's just what I read.

vers is correct, Suh did show interest in the Browns...


Ndamukong Suh Remains Interested in Browns as Landing Spot: Report

link

Then there is this from yhoo sports...

Report: Browns have no interest in Ndamukong Suh but could consider Sheldon Richardson
link

IIRC Suh expressed interest in a bunch of teams.

He was also asking for 9M in salary.

Tampa Bay declined Suh and signed Akiem Hicks... for 8M+ incentives.

Maybe there's more to the story than "Suh wanted to come here and we did nothing!"

Not really.

We have $32M in cap room right? I think I have seen that claimed - maybe that's next year but I doubt it since DW contract hits after his year one $1M salary.....

It really doesn't matter if $9M for Suh is good value in relation to other players of his position on other teams. Suh would be a VAST improvement on any DT we had on the roster. Immediately impacting every other front 7 position by his ability to play even 50% of the snaps. Hell if he wanted $9M to sign for some other team - offer him $11M. We needed an upgrade, it was available and we didn't take it. We are 3-6. Maybe we'd be 4-5 with him??? HUGE difference and worth it.

I forgo. I may have been one of the fisrt to mention Suh.

At this point it is what it is.

Hindsight is what?

the 32 mill can roll over to next year which will be huge as we go into tighter cap years.

That’s the things, cap isn’t going to get tight, we have the most and it’s only going to grow as rollover and the cap explosion that’s going to happen with the new deal. Winning the cap seems to be the only thing we can win. We need to value winning on the field by spending some of that cap. There was help out there for LB and DT and we did nothing. Berry blows

Caps are accounting BS. If we do nothing to change our cap situation, we’re headed for issues. But there’s plenty teams can do. It’s a shell game.

The way bigger issue is whether this team can even get their heads out of their a$$es enough to play football.