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I decided to put this thread in Pure Football because it has covered most of the entire season, but I have to admit the stupid penalty against the Cardinals definitely sparked it.
Also, this isn't a thread saying to cut him, trade him (unless it's a good trade), skin him alive, or hang him.
But, what the heck has happened to this guy this year? Why has he just all of a sudden gotten not just bad, but stupid!?
He makes poor decisions in coverage, consistently falls down, his footwork is horrendous, and now apparently he's just decided to kick dead balls. I know he was never a top 5 corner, but why has our former #1 corner digressed THIS bad!?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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man... I don't know whats going on with him, but why is it that McDonald is playing a lot better than a vet!!!??? 
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He doesnt have any speed.
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WE've heard it a lot that he's been injured this year, and though its true, it's to a point where it doesn't matter. He's suffered a few injuries now and can't stay consistent because of it.
Bodden hasn't lost his talent, or his smarts (despite the bonehead play today), his body is failing him. I think we're just going to have to deal with it this year because it's unlikely he's going to get to 100% having to play every week. If he comes back next year healthy, great. But if he can't get past it, it's time to give up on him. It's too bad, he's a good corner.
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RAC will probably stick with him WAAAAYY past the time when most coaches would give up on a player. His undying loyalty to the vets is honorable sometimes, and disgusting at others.
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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Maybe Bodden's ankle isn't fully healed and never will be.
All i know is he's not nearly the same guy he was 2 years ago.
It's a shame because he truly was a great corner two years ago...he was all over the field like McDonald has been lately.
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He got an extension during the offseason, got paid and fell off.
Actually I can't say that's the truth. I know I've heard RAC say he's working through some stuff......whether that's the legal stuff from his airport incident, personal stuff, injuries or just basically meaning he's been sucking, I don't know. I know he shows up on the injury report a lot, limps off the field a lot so it's possible he's not 100%. If that's the case, get someone else in there, because he's not helping things out.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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He actually has not been on the injury report all regular season, I believe. Makes me wonder what's really wrong with him. I think it's just small, nagging injuries. Things that are bad enough to slowly make him play worse, but not so bad that he's forced to miss time.
Or, maybe he's got other problems, like mental ones, or legal ones that have been mentioned...
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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Quote:
RAC will probably stick with him WAAAAYY past the time when most coaches would give up on a player. His undying loyalty to the vets is honorable sometimes, and disgusting at others.
Very well said. I think a lot of us feel this way.
If I were making a list of Pros and Cons regarding RAC, this perception is definitely one that would go in the Cons list.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c
Can he play safety?
Willie, not sure if you were joking about this or not, but I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately and was going to start a thread on it.
I think he has shown he has decent instincts, but his body can't do what his mind wants him to do which is killing him as a cover corner.
But put him at safety with those same instincts and a little more space to work in ... hmmm?
I also think he is a solid tackler and is not afraid to help in the run game.
I do think he might be a little light. Probably wants to add 10-15 lbs.
But I do think this is an intriguing idea.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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He actually has not been on the injury report all regular season, I believe. Makes me wonder what's really wrong with him. I think it's just small, nagging injuries. Things that are bad enough to slowly make him play worse, but not so bad that he's forced to miss time.
Or, maybe he's got other problems, like mental ones, or legal ones that have been mentioned...
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I've seen him listed during the week as not practicing for whatever reason. He ends up playing in the games but I know a lot of the games in the middle parts of the season, I remember hearing him missing practice.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Injuries + contract extension in office season = less motivation to play hard every down.
McDonald would like that fat contract extension and to make a name for himself (just like Bodden) and goes all out when needed.
Hopefully Leigh can shake the injury bug in the off season and get back to a top notch corner.
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Injuries + contract extension in office season = less motivation to play hard every down.
McDonald would like that fat contract extension and to make a name for himself (just like Bodden) and goes all out when needed.
Hopefully Leigh can shake the injury bug in the off season and get back to a top notch corner.
I thought the contract extension was the season before last.
I don't think that has anything to do with it. Seems like the guy has a ton of pride and confidence and wants to get the job done.
It's just that physically he is not able to.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quote:
Injuries + contract extension in office season = less motivation to play hard every down.
McDonald would like that fat contract extension and to make a name for himself (just like Bodden) and goes all out when needed.
Hopefully Leigh can shake the injury bug in the off season and get back to a top notch corner.
I thought the contract extension was the season before last.
I don't think that has anything to do with it. Seems like the guy has a ton of pride and confidence and wants to get the job done.
It's just that physically he is not able to.
My point is that he is not playing to make the team or get the fat contract. He did that.
And if he's that hurt, get off the field. Either you can play or you can't, we can't afford a 'kind of can play' status.
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It's just that physically he is not able to.
And now it looks like he can't get it done mentally either.
Romeo needs to drop the double standard and stick the guy on the bench.
Had McDonald kicked a ball like that, he would have yanked him in a heartbeat. He should have done the same with Leigh.
It isn't as if the guy is Deion Sanders who is going to make it up 5X over in a game.
Who knows?? We might actually see a few more passes broken up.
Sit him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think some of his homies got cut, and he is mad about it.. He just dont care anymore. He doesn't ;play with a high motor, dont look for the ball, just seems he dont care.. Just like in Cleveland Airport, he dont care... He has other things on him mind.. i said this back in week 1, and i think preseason too, that Bodden was falling off the wagon.. Im looking for it now, because I had it summed up pretty good back then too.. Got your flame throwers ready AGAIN? 
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That was a serious question. Lots of corners become safeties later in their career. It's a little early for Bodden, but I was thinking 'safety' for the exact same reasons you posted. Brilliant minds think alike.  Could be interesting.
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What has happened is obvious..
Bodden's had some injuries that have hampered his play.
But those injuries haven't sidelined him...
So teams know he's weak and suspect to getting beat and they're going right at him on crucial plays..
IMO he should go to the nickle but I know coach isn't gonna do that..
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He is playing hurt, and fighting a court case. Never a good recipe for maintaining focus.
But lets not forget that Bodden leads our team in INT's so far this year. Including 2 INT's that sealed up wins for us.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Bodden can't even go to the Airport without screwing up.....How come you never see the good teams doing this stupid stuff like kicking the ball andspikeing it at mid-field.
Personal fouls are also killing us. I hope at the end of the season RAC takes a hard look at guys like Bodden and Dinkins. They must be dumber than dirt.
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j/c
My main worry about Bodden is that he's going to be a story similar to Courtney Brown... always less than 100% due to injury. Now CB always seemed to end up on IR and Bodden's still on the field, but it's starting to become a concern for me.
I tend to see things long-term, so I don't feel the same level of frustration that others do. Some players have off years and come back just fine for seasons to come. I don't know if that will be Bodden's case, but he hasn't exactly played himself out of a job just yet.
Maybe some time at nickel this season would put less strain on his body, and speed his recovery time after the season is over.
As for the mental lapses... I wouldn't presume to "shrink" the guy, but let's be honest- until recently, he's never been anything less than a model player. I'm just not ready to fire up the Greyhound and start steering at him just yet. Some fans are just strung a little higher than others, I guess.
Until he becomes a true loose canon, benching him seems a bit extreme... unless it was like the Braylon thing last year (1st qtr in prison/on the field the rest of the game). As a coach, one must weigh the impact of benching a player against the entire team's best interests. There are other ways to handle a player than with a 2x4.
At any rate, given a choice between benching him or putting him in nickle packs, I'd prefer to do the latter. I mean, we aren't exactly the Mariana Trench when it somes to depth at DB. Who knows? Maybe the reduced playing time will make the same impression as a benching, without voiding ALL his services.
It was stupid, for sure. It led to a score, true. But do you honestly think he's a threat to do it again? I say fine him, toss him to the Top Dawgs in the locker room, and move on.
This is a molehill that shouldn't be allowed to become a mountain, imho
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
Bodden can't even go to the Airport without screwing up.....How come you never see the good teams doing this stupid stuff like kicking the ball andspikeing it at mid-field.
Personal fouls are also killing us. I hope at the end of the season RAC takes a hard look at guys like Bodden and Dinkins. They must be dumber than dirt.
I may be imagining things but ever since Bodden got talked about being a shut down corner and "The only guy that shut down Chad Johnson" , he has had some arrogance about him that even a guy I talked to who worked at the airport when Bodden had his run in with the law told me about. Alot of his teammates came to his aid by saying that what they heard wasn't like Leigh. But I heard a different story from someone there. I wouldn't mind if McDonald and Wright took over next year as the starting CB's. I hope Leigh is humbled sometime soon and becomes a team first guy and starts working towards getting better before he finds himself as a nickelback or benched. I hope I'm wrong about him.
![[Linked Image from i71.photobucket.com]](http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/vanhalun18/GradySizemore.jpg)
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Clem all good points, with sound reasoning and a even more sound approach. Posters like yourself give me hope. Why do fans always start the bus up every time a player or a coach makes a mistake. Hey tell you guys that fire up the bus all the time what. Lets say the next time you make a mistake we fire up the bus on you? thats the point of all the speaches you all constantly hear about working to get better. I might add the very best teams make mistakes. The very best coaches and players make mistakes. It's funny everyone skips over most of the mistakes when we win but when we lose they go into their micro football mode. Bodden has been hurt most of the season, inspite of that he has continued to play. Instead of giving him a break some fans just pile on. The real kicker is this, if RAC felt there were a better option then playing LB then he would exercise that option, count on it. Please folks save the emotional kid stuff, yes Bodden made a mistake, and I bet without you all jumping on his case he knows it. If he comes out and does the same thing again, then I will drive the bus, until that happens give the guy a break. The thing I can't believe the most is this one. Heading into the season everyone was soooooooo happy we were going to get Bodden back, and now that he is playing thru injury he sucks becuase he is hurt. Then there is the trade him crowd. This one really adds up to dumb. Why would you trade a player that has an injury that likely will be addressed in the off season that has shown when healthy that he plays at a pretty high level. Of course once you have traded him off and he is healthy he begins to play at a high level then you want to fire the guy that traded him. I will never understand some people thats for darned sure... 
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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You know what Bone? If I was playing in the NFL I would make a point of knowing the rules. Being fired up is OK. Being stupid and losing the game isn't. I heard Bodden say he didn't know you could'nt do that. RAC said well if he didn't know then its my fault. You might have noticed New England didn't kick the ball away or take their helmet off and throw it( we lost a game that way if you remember). I never saw a Parcells team pull something like that. Quit making excuses for an idiot. He doesn't cover anybody anyway. 
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I'm sure stupid penalties have been called on NE AND Parcells teams'.
I can't name any b/c stupid penalties aren't exactly something you recall over the years.
But I think calling Bodden "an idiot" is just ignorant. The guy lost his head a minute, it happens. Look at Tom Brady last night, spiking the ball in frustration after getting sacked on two consecutive plays. That could easily have been called--but it wasn't. Bodden did get penalized--get over it.
Its funny, Bodden has made two picks this year that sealed victories for us. He's tied with Sean Jones for the team leader in INT's.
But b/c we lost a game, and he made a bonehead play, suddenly everyone thinks he's the worst player ever. He's not the greatest DB, but definitely not the worst.
He's a great tackler, fills well against the run, and he has a nose for the ball. He's a bigger corner who can make some plays.
Has he given up plays throughout the season, of course, every defender does. Does that mean he is garbage-----hardly.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
RAC will probably stick with him WAAAAYY past the time when most coaches would give up on a player. His undying loyalty to the vets is honorable sometimes, and disgusting at others.
LOL,, you don't know what he'll do so this is just another vailed slap at RAC...
Now I'll get told to shut up again I bet!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The guy has played hurt all year...give him a break. Like someone said if we had a better option they'd be playing.
I think of him as Leigh "the warrior" Bodden.
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This should be the official, "what has happened to our defense" thread! LOL , though it's not funny at all! We should be 3 wins better, beating Oakland, Pitt (2nd matchup), and Arizona! I say it's in part because our defense isn't stopping opponents from passing the ball for good yards and scoring, not too mention that we aren't exactly stopping opponents rushing game either, although I've seen marginal improvement over the season, I'm very disappointed at the play of our defense! My bigges issue is with the lack of pressure, sacks, tfl's (tackles for loss).
Now getting back to those big passing yards we've seemed to give up way too much of this season, I'm not sure what the problem is? I know Bodden has been dinged a bit but even when he's playing he doesn't seem to be at the level he was at last season. Eric Wright is a rookie so he gets a pass, IMO, not too mention he's hurt too!
I haven't got to see much more than highlights all season, so I'm wondering if the safeties are holding up? Anyways, I sure hope Phil, RAC, and Grantham right the defense, because we will need a very good defense if we are to ever contend for the division and SB! If our D played to the lever of our O this season, we'd be a powerhouse team!
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Quote:
The guy has played hurt all year...give him a break. Like someone said if we had a better option they'd be playing.
I think of him as Leigh "the warrior" Bodden.
Yup,, I know and agree
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Bodden has been hurt most of the season, inspite of that he has continued to play. Instead of giving him a break some fans just pile on. The real kicker is this, if RAC felt there were a better option then playing LB then he would exercise that option, count on it. Please folks save the emotional kid stuff, yes Bodden made a mistake, and I bet without you all jumping on his case he knows it. If he comes out and does the same thing again, then I will drive the bus, until that happens give the guy a break.
The thing I can't believe the most is this one. Heading into the season everyone was soooooooo happy we were going to get Bodden back, and now that he is playing thru injury he sucks becuase he is hurt. Then there is the trade him crowd. This one really adds up to dumb. Why would you trade a player that has an injury that likely will be addressed in the off season that has shown when healthy that he plays at a pretty high level. Of course once you have traded him off and he is healthy he begins to play at a high level then you want to fire the guy that traded him. I will never understand some people thats for darned sure...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anyone here who wants to trade him or pile on him like he's garbage. In my starting post, I claimed just the opposite.
We were all excited to have him back this season because he had been playing well for us before. He is not playing well for us now. After struggling for much of the season he does something stupid that cost us points against the Cardinals. These are just facts, which I believe, should entitle us to be a little upset. I advocate him coming in for our nickel package right now, but if he's playing hurt, as you say, then he should be benched, and allowed to recover. Trying to play hurt at CB and giving up big plays is not a smart thing to do.
Also, if he knows that he's playing crappy, it doesn't mean that we should just roll over, and go, "Okay, well at least he knows about it."
JMHO.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
RAC will probably stick with him WAAAAYY past the time when most coaches would give up on a player. His undying loyalty to the vets is honorable sometimes, and disgusting at others.
LOL,, you don't know what he'll do so this is just another vailed slap at RAC...
Now I'll get told to shut up again I bet!
Shut up! 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Shut up!
I hate to say I told you so,, But,,,,, I told you so 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I'm not trying to take a slap at RAC. I'm just saying that, for better or worse, RAC seems to show a lot of loyalty to the incumbents. Is this good? In one since, yes, because guys can play better if they are not constantly looking over their shoulder, afraid of being replaced. However, it can be bad, such as with TW, where everyone could see that this guy was done, but RAC stuck with him a little too long. Is RAC going to do this with Bodden? I don't know. I don't even know if the game has passed Bodden by yet. But, I think RAC will stick with him for awhile, whether he's playing good or bad. Is that right or wrong? I guess that depends on your opinion. 
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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Quote:
I'm not trying to take a slap at RAC. I'm just saying that, for better or worse, RAC seems to show a lot of loyalty to the incumbents. Is this good? In one since, yes, because guys can play better if they are not constantly looking over their shoulder, afraid of being replaced. However, it can be bad, such as with TW, where everyone could see that this guy was done, but RAC stuck with him a little too long.
Is RAC going to do this with Bodden? I don't know. I don't even know if the game has passed Bodden by yet. But, I think RAC will stick with him for awhile, whether he's playing good or bad. Is that right or wrong? I guess that depends on your opinion.
The other vets on the team respect that RAC held onto Ted Washington as long as we did, and then put him on IR instead of cutting him. He gains points with the other players this way, and helps BUILD THE TEAM this way. Its not like he is still playing him. After a couple games of barely producing and not making many plays, Big Ted was on IR. I highly doubt that was a "season ending" injury either.
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1st you should read thru the posts, it was put up that perhaps we should trade Bodden. Never said it was you that said it, right!!!  There is one thing I have noticed, and I have said this before and I probably need to repeat it. When Bodden makes a big INT to seal the win he is the hero, but if he makes a mistake he is the goat. People, have pointed out that he got beat on the fade route. The TRUTH in case your wondering is this. He played that play exactly as he was suppose to it was a perfect pass. Ever heard the term, you can't beat a perfect route, and a perfect pass? Well thats what happened. To understand what actually happened you have to understand what LB responsiblity was and what the down and distance was. It was 1st and goal to goal from the 1 or 2 yard line. LB was to push his man to the outside to maintain leverage and postion for run support he did this perfectly, and was beatin by a perfect pass. But folks leave that part out. As I said people just react with their emotions not their brains, and certainly not their knowledge of the game.  Said this before too, if RAC thought he had a better option or a player that was better able to play the position, that player would be playing. I tell all this if you think LB will be taken down because he got beatin on that fade route you would be wrong. As I said he played it perfect. Yes he made a bonehead play, and as I said he knows it. Ever make a mistake, yourselfs? Ever kick your own ass over that mistake? Bet thats what LB has been doing. He has been a pretty good player for the Browns, he has health issue, and yes he isn't playing his best ball. He still is gutting it out and giving everything he has got, to try to help the team. When a better player presents himself RAC will play that guy.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,450
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,450 |
The problem is this,, RAC hung on to Carthon and so now, no matter what he does, he hangs onto people too long,,
So now we have the Washington thing.. Good god, the man is 900 years old and he was playing hurt,, finally, RAC had to pull the trigger,,Yes, maybe a little later than he should have.
But see what I mean, because of the Carthon thing, it's now being said that he hung onto Washington too long,,
And with comments like yours, it will continue to go on and on and on.
Can you name anyone else he Hung Onto too long?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 74
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 74 |
Well, by my estimation, we dumped Andruzzi about one season too late as well. God bless him, I know he has cancer right now, but he had no business starting last season. And, I know this wasn't entirely his call, but using up a roster spot on Baxter was a questionable call. Giving up a roster spot so that the vet could make an unprecedented comeback was a noble move, but it also took a roster spot from a young, up and coming player who could've made a difference. I wanted to see Gary come back as much as anyone, but realistically, I think everyone knew he had no shot. Some would say he'd earned that oppurtunity, but then again, this is a business, and sometimes you gotta break someone's heart for the good of the team. Obviously, there's the whole TW and Carthon thing... Again, I'm not saying that this is necessarily a BAD thing. I'm sure it garners a lot of respect from his players. Leigh's still on the field right now because of his experience and past accomplishments, not because of his current play. Hopefully RAC's faith in his abilities pays off,Leigh turns the corner, and starts to look like he did in 2005. 
Much respect to ya, even if you wish me the opposite...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,450
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,450 |
Quote:
And, I know this wasn't entirely his call, but using up a roster spot on Baxter was a questionable call.
I can't totally agree with you... Sometimes, and I think this is one of those times, you have to hang onto a guy because he's the best you can get your hands on.. Notice, as soon as Stienbach was available,, Druzzi was gone. (like you say, god bless him, I hope it's gonna be ok)
So it's not Hanging onto a guy because of loyality in this case, it's need. Druzzie was the best option..
As for Baxter, all indications were that he would be able to play this season... what would you have him do,, IR him and then come to find out that he could have played.. can you imagine how good that would look right now since Eric Wright went down..
No No,, I don't agree that Baxter was a loyality issue.. it was one of those calculated risks that you take.. this one didn't work out.
So basically, you can't name anyone else that he hung onto to long right? And that's my point,,,
Basically, we have Carthon and maybe Washington... and really, that's it.. How does a guy like RAC get the reputation of hanging on to "His" guys too long because of Loyality based on that?
See what I'm driving at. It's all perception.. in this case, I tend to think it's an undeserved perception of RAC... JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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