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#1994093 12/19/22 10:02 AM
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As usual, I would like to keep the conversation in thread to be specific about this game only rather than season long or organizational topics. Thanks.

This was a hard-fought game that was pretty clean as each team had only 3 penalties. The Browns did not show an ounce of quit. They played w/energy, passion, and determination. It's great that they have not quit on each other and the team. I think it was huge that we won the turnover battle 2 to 0 and that we were 2 for 2 on 4th down while the Ravens were 0 for 3.

Some observations:

--Watson is improving each game, but he still isn't close to where he was in past years. It was nice to see him run a bit, but I think he should be running a little more. His legs are a real asset. He protected the ball and made some plays. Overall, it was a solid effort.

--Cade York frustrates me. After his tantrum last week, he misses two relatively easy kicks on Saturday.

--J. Johnson had an excellent game. I've been critical of him, but he was all over the field until he got hurt. Yes, he made some highlight plays, but he also made a ton of solid plays where he was in the right spot at the right time.

--Ward had an excellent game, as well. The Browns ask a lot of him and he was in perfect position so many times.

--Clowney was usual no-show self. He's overrated. He also left w/yet another injury.

--The interior played better.

--The biggest difference in my mind was that are LBers were in better position than our usual guys were. We played a ton of different combinations and they were around the ball most of the day.

--Delpit still is lost in coverage, but he did make some nice run stops.

--DPJ and Cooper were solid. I was expecting to see Njoku go off in this game. It did not happen, but his athleticism was on full display.

--Chubb and Hunt had nice games. I think Hunt actually ran a bit better, but both were good. We kinda wore the Ravens down. They have a good run D and stuffed us for much of the game, but we got yards when we needed them late.

--Dobbins had 125 yards on 13 carries. Chubb had 99 yards on 21 carries. What does that tell you?

--Folks won't want to admit it, but Stefanski and his staff clearly outcoached Harbaugh and his staff. In-game decisions, clock management, scheme, play calling, etc.

--I might have imagined this, but the crowd looked different to me. It seemed like there were a lot of fans there who typically don't get to go to games and they were doing a great job of cheering on their team and having a lot of fun doing it. That warmed my heart.

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York is frustrating for me too. He’s an enigma … huge leg and potential but has certainly had a rookie slump. You wonder how much of it is mental or how much of it truly is him having to cope with tough conditions/wind/stadium/etc.

I liked Grossi’s point about our safety play: it’s almost like we go as a team as they go as a unit.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
York is frustrating for me too. He’s an enigma … huge leg and potential but has certainly had a rookie slump. You wonder how much of it is mental or how much of it truly is him having to cope with tough conditions/wind/stadium/etc.

I liked Grossi’s point about our safety play: it’s almost like we go as a team as they go as a unit.

York is frustrating me as well. No steadiness, consistency, etc. Either high or low. I wanted to give him a pass due to the wind but that first kick was a complete dud from the jump. The second one? I could see how that might have been because of the wind but he has to get used to this. With all that said, I'm assuming the wind played a factor as I saw the snow going every which direction on TV. Maybe it wasn't as pronounced though?


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Good recap, Vers.

I did not see the entire game. And I do not have much to add to what you stated. I also agree that we seemed to be the better prepared, and better coached team.

- There is a lot of talk about how Baltimore lost the game, we did not win it. That's not how it works. Not to mention, we have shot ourselves in the foot many, many times over the years. It's a win.

- We swept the division at home. When did that last happen?

- Tucker with two misses (yeah, one was a block) in a game. Wow.

- I do not know why teams bother throwing on us. We can get decent pressure, and our DBs are playing well as a unit. We have been having a lot of success defending the pass game, but not at all the run.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
- I do not know why teams bother throwing on us. We can get decent pressure, and our DBs are playing well as a unit. We have been having a lot of success defending the pass game, but not at all the run.

Agree. The Browns were getting absolutely gashed on the ground. Fortunately, Greg Roman inexplicably insisted on having Huntley throw the ball.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
- I do not know why teams bother throwing on us. We can get decent pressure, and our DBs are playing well as a unit. We have been having a lot of success defending the pass game, but not at all the run.

Agree. The Browns were getting absolutely gashed on the ground. Fortunately, Greg Roman inexplicably insisted on having Huntley throw the ball.


So does this mean Stefanski outcoached Harbaugh or Harbaugh outcoached Harbaugh?

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
York is frustrating for me too. He’s an enigma … huge leg and potential but has certainly had a rookie slump. You wonder how much of it is mental or how much of it truly is him having to cope with tough conditions/wind/stadium/etc.

I liked Grossi’s point about our safety play: it’s almost like we go as a team as they go as a unit.
York was hitting 55 yards in preseason training camp and fans were
Fitting him with a HoF jacket already
Another Berry draft pick he missed on. I'd bring in a vet
Next year to compete with him

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
- I do not know why teams bother throwing on us. We can get decent pressure, and our DBs are playing well as a unit. We have been having a lot of success defending the pass game, but not at all the run.

Agree. The Browns were getting absolutely gashed on the ground. Fortunately, Greg Roman inexplicably insisted on having Huntley throw the ball.


So does this mean Stefanski outcoached Harbaugh or Harbaugh outcoached Harbaugh?

Harbaugh was doing his best Stefanski



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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
York is frustrating for me too. He’s an enigma … huge leg and potential but has certainly had a rookie slump. You wonder how much of it is mental or how much of it truly is him having to cope with tough conditions/wind/stadium/etc.

I liked Grossi’s point about our safety play: it’s almost like we go as a team as they go as a unit.
York was hitting 55 yards in preseason training camp and fans were
Fitting him with a HoF jacket already
Another Berry draft pick he missed on. I'd bring in a vet
Next year to compete with him

After watching Saturday's performance by our kicker, York...I'm left wondering if ANYONE from the Browns bothered to check to see what kind or FG percentage York had IN COLD WEATHER...and don't tell me it doesn't make a difference..IT DOES..!

Who was in charge of scouting York..?..depodesta ?

Last edited by mac; 12/19/22 12:12 PM.



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Game specific thread. Not a Depo thread or a scouting thread.

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Well - he played at LSU (that's Louisiana) and the college football season runs basically to the beginning of Dec, so how many "cold" weather games do you think he played in.

Those misses had nothing to do with the cold or the wind, in my opinion. I watched the flags before each kick and they were barely moving on both attempts. He shanked, yet another - looked very much like my snap hook golf shot. He then overcompensated for the shank by pushing the next kick.

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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
York is frustrating for me too. He’s an enigma … huge leg and potential but has certainly had a rookie slump. You wonder how much of it is mental or how much of it truly is him having to cope with tough conditions/wind/stadium/etc.

I liked Grossi’s point about our safety play: it’s almost like we go as a team as they go as a unit.
York was hitting 55 yards in preseason training camp and fans were
Fitting him with a HoF jacket already
Another Berry draft pick he missed on. I'd bring in a vet
Next year to compete with him

After watching Saturday's performance by our kicker, York...I'm left wondering if ANYONE from the Browns bothered to check to see what kind or FG percentage York had IN COLD WEATHER...and don't tell me it doesn't make a difference..IT DOES..!

Who was in charge of scouting York..?..depodesta ?

Jared Mueller was.


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As I said in the post game thread the Browns looked prepared and focused. And they kept that fire for all four quarters. As I expected watson once again improved over his second start in this game. I certainly agree with you that he's not there yet but I don't think anyone with realistic expectations felt it was going to be something that came right away but would instead be a process. Thus far we can see that process unfolding.

For the third week in a row it was the defense that were the heroes of the game. I have no idea why Harbaugh would have Huntley throw 30+ passes in this game but none the less he did. It certainly played into the Browns hands. The most concerning part for me is for as much as watson has improved they can't seem to turn that offensive production into TD's. I certainly understand that more points would have been scored had York made those FG's. But on 30+ offensive possessions in the last three games, the Browns O has only managed to find the end zone twice.

With the remaining schedule being comprised of the Saints, the Commanders and the Steelers it would seem there is certainly an opportunity for the Browns to work on finishing off drives and finding the end zone more efficiently. A very real chance of putting up more W's. Both would go a very long way in giving this team momentum and reasons to feel positive going into the off season.

If Saturday was any indication of the direction the team is headed for the rest of the season it was very positive. Hopefully this trend continues.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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ESPN Game Stats says that the Browns were 1 of 4 in the red zone and Baltimore was 0 for 2. The recent Red Zone woes are concerning. Need to find ways to score TDs down there.

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Yeah, we have been bad in the red zone all year (and really, any short yardage in the last half of the season). I am wondering if the OL struggles marry that struggle


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Probably. They are at least part of the problem.

I also would like to see Watson use his legs more in those situations. Think about how much pressure guys like Hurts, Allen, Lamar, Fields, even Mahomes, etc put on defenses in similar circumstances.

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In a more positive light, I have to say that David Njoku is one helluva blocker! Remember how bad he was his first couple of years? Now, most see that he is good at blocking. He had one play yesterday where our back [can't remember if it was Chubb or Hunt] had a nice run, but the story was that ran a trap block on a big, huge DT and completely stonewalled the dude. It was incredible. Opened up a nice hole as Teller led the way at the second level after chipping the guy. I love stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Probably. They are at least part of the problem.

I also would like to see Watson use his legs more in those situations. Think about how much pressure guys like Hurts, Allen, Lamar, Fields, even Mahomes, etc put on defenses in similar circumstances.
I think sometimes coaches don’t allow athletic QBs to use their legs as much. I hope we don’t fall into that trap too


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I do think having a mobile QB has advantages. But I think what a lot of fans don't take into consideration, or maybe not enough consideration is the risk factor involved here. Once a QB starts to run with the ball he no longer has all of the rule protections that are afforded QB's in the league when they aren't. At that point they're just another runner and open to seriuous and severe hits. That certainly puts them at a greater risk for injury.

I will only address the situation with watson. He is under a five year guaranteed 230 million dollar contract. No matter how fans see it, those in the FO and NFL owners are basing their actions on business decisions. Even players get accused of it and sometimes that may hold merit. And it's obvious that those in charge don't all see it the same way. QB's like Mahomes and Josh Allen certainly have designed run plays and RPO's as a part of the game plan. However it's not hard to see why some owners, FO's and coaching staffs have a different strategy.

They feel it's a wiser decision to minimize their QB's risk of injury by only having their QB's run the ball when it's a necessary evil to avoid sacks and hits. I won't say which one I would favor if I were in their position because I don't think people actually know the answer to that since they haven't been faced with it. But there are certainly merits to both strategies.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Memphis posted this in the Post Game thread. I think it is relevant in this thread, as well.




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Originally Posted by BADdog
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
- I do not know why teams bother throwing on us. We can get decent pressure, and our DBs are playing well as a unit. We have been having a lot of success defending the pass game, but not at all the run.

Agree. The Browns were getting absolutely gashed on the ground. Fortunately, Greg Roman inexplicably insisted on having Huntley throw the ball.


So does this mean Stefanski outcoached Harbaugh or Harbaugh outcoached Harbaugh?

Harbaugh was doing his best Stefanski

But Harbaugh doesn't call the Offensive plays, Stefanski does, no?


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And those are the top 5 you want to see on there every week (though you would hope Watson would be in there too).

As for the game, I unfortunately didn't get to see the whole game as I was flying back from Guam. I did catch the replay of the first half when I landed and now watching some full game highlights.

- first or second Ravens drive in the red zone. Jones with a big hit on Ricard that stopped his momentum for getting the first down on 4th and 1. Damn, that was a big boy stuff. Great gang tackling after the hit.

- there were a couple beautiful PA dump off passes to Njoku that I would love to see happen a few times a game.

- Baldwin with a couple nice catches for his first NFL game. Great catch and holding onto it while taking the hit on his second catch. The second was a beautiful play design with Cooper clearing out the left side while Baldwin came across wide open filling in that midrange area for the catch.

- Jones had a nice play on a first and 10 from around the 15. Huntley rolled to his left trying to find a receiver, and decided to run it. Jones closed quickly for what looked to be a loss of 1 or 2. His speed was a big factor as that should have been a big run down the sideline.

- there was some big plays due to YAC after the catch. This is one of the things I stated at the beginning of the year that I was hoping would happen once DW took over as QB. With our previous QB last year and Brissett as QB (though he played solid for us this year) my view was seeing it was more station to station passing. What I mean, is the the QB diagnosing the open receiver was a second or two too slow and also where the ball is placed. An elite QB will get more YAC out of a receiver by placing the ball in a better spot in stride, diagnosing it quicker, and also for Watson; his threat to run on rollouts/buying time will open windows up. I hope this becomes the norm.

- Nice INT by Ward! Great break on the ball and fighting for the ball to get the takeaway

- Dear John Johnson...i know it's one game, but your play today is what we expected from you for two seasons now. Nice game dude, please keep this up for 3 more games.

side note: while watching full game highlights...sure it doesn't show all the negative or no gain plays. But just watching Watson run on some of these plays and some of his passes are just a thing of beauty to watch.

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