DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2022 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Saints 17 Post Game Thoughts

Painful truth about Browns loss and season on display in the frigid weather – Terry Pluto’s Postgame Scribbles
Published: Dec. 25, 2022, 5:51 a.m.

By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook after the Browns’ 17-10 loss to New Orleans:

1. A few times in his postgame interview, New Orleans coach Dennis Allen said: “We talked all week about how this game was going to be about mental toughness, and I thought our guys showed incredible grit.”

2. Allen was right – about his Saints. As he also explained, “We went down 10-0 (in the second quarter) and ... were able to take the lead. Then the defense finishes the game.”

3. More from Allen: “The most mentally tough team was going to win ... heart and grit, it’s what they (the Saints players) have.”

4. Here’s the sad part. Those are the kind of words Browns fans should have expected to hear from coach Kevin Stefanski after the game – a game that was there for the Browns to win. A warm weather/dome team playing on the road ... on Christmas Eve ... in well below zero wind chills ... that was set up for the Browns to win. And that was especially true after taking the 10-0 lead.

5. Browns veteran Joel Bitonio said: “We have had too many games that we’ve not been able to close out this year – Jets, Falcons, Chargers and this game. It’s four or five games ... Good teams find a way to win those close ones and find a way to close the door. We’ve not done that enough this year.”

THE GRINCH & THE BROWNS
Cleveland Browns fans donned holiday outfits and braved the freezing temperatures to watch the Browns lose. John Kuntz, cleveland.com

6. The Browns are 6-9. They are now guaranteed of one thing – a losing record ... again. They could lose even more games than a year ago, when they were 8-9. Even with Deshaun Watson sitting out the first 11 games with a suspension, did those in Berea who make big decisions expect the Browns to be 6-9 at this point in the season? Did they think they’d be 4-7 with Jacoby Brissett at QB when his offense was 11th in the NFL in scoring?

7. Interesting point made by Myles Garrett: “I don’t think the intensity dropped, but I think the attention to detail of being where you are supposed to be – and making those plays when they come to you, that really came back to bite us.”

8. Something has been missing with this team for most of the season. They will play a good game, such as last week’s 13-3 cold-weather win over Baltimore and the 32-13 Halloween night victory over Cincinnati. But they don’t sustain much. Since the Browns were 11-5 and made the 2020 playoffs, they are 14-18. Given the talent level, that’s underachieving.

9. I wrote a lot about the strange play calling in my game column. Coach Kevin Stefanski and Watson were looking to hit some big pass plays in the second half. They had receivers open. They had some balls overthrown. They had two drops that could been TDs.

MISSED CHANCE
Cleveland Browns wide receiver Amari Cooper slipped and then dropped a possible TD pass. Joshua Gunter, cleveland.com

10. But this day with 25 to 55 mph wind gusts and below zero wind chills made it hard for receivers to run their usual routes. Players were slipping. Quarterbacks had to throw the ball hard to cut through the wind, but that also makes it tough to catch on frigid days. If you noticed, the Saints rarely tried passes other than short and a few medium throws. They didn’t fight the weather, they adapted. Andy Dalton was 8 of 15 for 92 yards passing.

11. New Orleans used Taysom Hill several times in the wildcat running formation. Snap it to him, try to stop him. He had 56 yards on nine carries, including a rugged 8-yard TD run.

12. Allen: “I thought we did the things we needed to do to win the game. That was run the ball effectively and stop the run effectively on defense.”

13. The Browns ran it 34 times, but averaged only 3.6 yards per carry. Kareem Hunt had only 8 yards on seven carries. Nick Chubb rushed for 92 yards on 24 attempts. The longest run of the day was 19 yards by Chubb.

14. The Browns only TD was a 12-yard designed run for Watson. This weather begged for the Browns to let Watson use his legs and athleticism more. But he had only three total carries for 24 yards. The Saints continually used the wildcat formation with running back Alvin Kamara and part-time QB Hill. They lined up and dared the Browns to stop them. Nothing tricky. And when it meant the most in the second half, New Orleans won the test of wills.

ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?
Cleveland Browns fans braved the freezing temperature and wind to watch the Browns lose to the New Orleans Saints.John Kuntz, cleveland.com

15. Comment from Bitonio: “We have investments up front (the offensive line) and in the running back room. On a day like today, it’s cold out, windy and hard to throw ... we are trying to run the ball and they are trying to stop the run ... it didn’t work out.”

16. In terms of investments, the Browns have their offensive linemen on long-term contracts: Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin and Bitonio. Chubb also has a long-term deal. The Saints had allowed at least 148 yards rushing in four of their last six games. New Orleans beat Atlanta 21-18 last week, but gave up 231 yards rushing. This was not a good run defense the Browns faced, but they didn’t capitalize on it.

17. Still can’t figure out why Watson tried a relatively long sideline pass to Donovan Peoples-Jones on fourth-and-2 in the fourth quarter. The pass got up in the wind and sailed over the receiver’s head. In case you were wondering, Watson didn’t change the play, according to Stefanski. Why not run, or just a play-fake to a running back and quick short pass for the first down?

18. A final thought: The fans who did show up deserved better than what the Browns gave them Saturday – and all season. For the record, the Saints are now 6-9 and have won two in a row for the first time this season.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...her-terry-plutos-postgame-scribbles.html

Good point. I'm not sure, either. I'm guessing we are not because I recall Woods saying he had to "simplify" things.

I think man vs zone really depends on the situation at hand. And it depends
On the offense you are facing. I've seen alot more defenses
Deploy half man half zone concepts
Kinda like a box and 1 concept in basketball.
I think with offenses that have a chemistry between the QB
And his WR/TE giving them a zone look is a death sentence
For the defense.
Now when facing a young inexperienced QB a zone is great way
To confuse him. And if you have really good DBs that can at the
Last second vacate their zone responsibility and break underneath
On a throw and the QB doesn't see him, that's great too.
But I believe everything is predicated on the pass rush up front
If you can get home with 3 or 4 rushers running zone or man
You can negate passing Games with

It sounds like Bitonio even wanted to run more yesterday

What did he say? I missed it.

Btw-------Chubb had 24 carries. Kamara had 20. I don't think 24 carries by one running back is ignoring the run.

It's about what your personnel does best. It's about which scheme your players execute the best. You don't try to fit square pegs in a round hole. You also adjust your scheme depending on your opponent. Sweeping generalizations won't change that.

AS bad as the offense was, all it took was for NO to find some running plays, and that was the end. This defense is absolutely horrible. I would replace 75% of it. Myles is talked about as a once in a generation player, but if he isn't getting sacks, he does nothing. Did he even have a tackle yesterday?

The talk of "next year" is laughable. This team is a loser, and they will continue to be losers. I can't think of one player on this team that inspires their teammates. Another losing season, and a place at the bottom of the division. All the talk of Pittsburgh being really bad, yet, they are ahead of the Browns, and will probably smash the Browns in the final week.

I used to get hopeful. At the beginning of this year I was hopeful again. It only took about three games for that hope to disappear. I have no hope for next year, and feel sorry for anyone who believes it will be any different. The Browns are what they are. Underachieving overpaid losers.

Agreed, and I'm sure the geniuses on this board know what's best far more than the coaching staff does.

This is where I'm at.

If we replace the project manager, I can manufacture some hope, but if we don't you can guarantee the Browns will finish last again next year.

There is no point investing in this team anymore.

11-5, 8-9, 6-11. This has some fans wanting to continue with this experiment where ego, pride, inexperience, stubbornness, analytics, and general incompetence are all prioritized over winning.

They knew how poor the interior of the DL sucked. So in some cases I would agree. So they do man coverage better and the answer is to use it less? If you're trying to argue this defensive coaching staff are NFL defensive experts I think the actual results would disagree with you without anyone actually having to post it.

So I agree with just about everything in Terry's article.

I have highlighted in green the issues I believe directly correlate or are related to coaching. I keep seeing posters defend Stefanski as if he isn't responsible for this team's record, or for the defense, or for the players preparedness. I keep seeing how Stefanski's play calling is great and the players are at fault for failure to execute - but the 4th and 2 play by Stefanski and the comment: the Saints rarely tried passes other than short and a few medium throws. They didn’t fight the weather, they adapted. together with They lined up and dared the Browns to stop them. Nothing tricky. sum up for me some of the biggest game day management/play calling issues with KS. Sure he has great games. Sure he got the best out of BM and JB.... but just like Woods inability to call/coach a good Defense week in and week out - too many games KS lays an egg. The season is too short to do that as often as we do/have.

Where did I argue that. I will be very clear. I think they are smarter than you guys when it comes to football. I also think they know their players better than you guys. I trust their judgments far more than I do guys like those of you who are pretending to know more than the coaching staff.

I have no doubt Stefanski knows way more football that I do. Unfortunately for him and the Browns, he isn't coaching against me. He is coaching against guys named Tomlin and Harbaugh.

This is a great point. Stefanski shouldn't be graded against message board posters but against his peers.

I asked this before and I'll ask again...can you name even 5 coaches you would take Stefanski over? Anyone?

Just a handful that came to mind immediately: Hackett, Saturday, McDaniels, and maybe Staley. Not sure any others

I was kinda glancing at the Pats game today
At BW3s...Joe Burrow threw the ball 35 times
By HALF TIME in extreme cold conditions
Mac Jones threw it 40 times by games end I think
It's funny to think if it's really cold out
You have by rule throw it under 20 times
And run it 58 times.[/quote]

The BRowns don't have great receivers at every position, just a couple.

What does this even mean?

My first thought is "One more season".

That's all I have left in the tank. We have lost in every fluky stupid way that anyone can think of, and yet we continue to come up with more. No other fan base can possibly understand. Lions, Texans, Saints are close, but at least they all had at least a few good seasons.

It's just not physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually possible for the things that happen to this team to keep happening.

I get the NFL wanted us to be bad this season which is why they overruled 2 judges whose sole job was to consider Watson's suspension and make it 11 games, the exact worst amount of game suspension possible, while also ripping us off on ref calls.

So you'd think "so the coaches get a pass?", NO, cuz despite the horrific sabotage the league (once again) took against the Browns, we still found ourselves in winnable games. Heck, the Jets game was OVER. We won, take a knee, run the clock out, GG, and we STILL lost. Just honestly some of the dumbest coaching I've ever seen in all 3 phases of the game.

Chubb was slicing up the Saints in the 4th quarter, so we decide to pass nonstop... what?

Meanwhile the Steelers are still in the playoff hunt with a trash QB, almost nothing at WR, and their best D player on IR all season.

I just refuse to believe this is real.

In theory, next year we are setup to rock. A "top 5 QB" (in quotes cuz I still need to see it to believe it), The best or at least top 3 RB, Top 5 O-line, and an insane amount of playmakers on D if we can shore up the DT spot and coaching can get it's head out of it's butt.

If we somehow fall victim to "bad luck" again, I'll throw in the towel. I know nobody will care or miss me, so I won't make some kinda dramatic goodbye post. I'll just leave and accept that my dad picked the whipping boy of the NFL's organized entertainment plan, and I was too dumb to realize it any sooner.

Rooting for Cleveland has robbed me of ever getting to root for a football team. Even if they won now it wouldn't be the same as if they won when I was younger, before the burden of cancer, friends & family dying, debt, bills, etc. You know, life. I still very much want them to win, but the evidence is overwhelming. If the NFL robs us again or the coaches do things that literally could only be explained by someone trying to lose, and Haslam doesn't raise hell, maybe even suiting the league, I'm done. Again, I know nobody cares, just venting lol

The Browns fans I've met IRL and on this forum are exceptional people and you all deserve better.

Oooh fun, I'll play!


1) Kliff Kinsbury
2) Todd Bowles
3) Lovie Smith
4) Nathaniel Hackett (honestly this one is close since Russ has played so bad no coach could win with that team, but he's also done some bonehead calls so it's a tie at least)
5) Josh McDaniels

But that's it, if not counting interim coaches. I can't think of a 6th, so I agree with you fundamentally for sure.

It’s like my wife always says … youre good at some things, but even those things you aren’t that good at

1) Hue Jackson 3-36-1
2) Freddie Kitchens 6-10-0
3) Pat Shurmur 9-23-0
4) Mike Pettine 10-22-0
5) Chris Palmer 5-27-0

No, it's moving the goal posts so that an agenda is being forced upon others. I was responding to statements where posters directly criticizing which schemes and packages fit our personnel the best. I'm saying those posters do NOT know more about those things than the coaching staff does. Once again, it's fans pretending they are smarter than the coaches. It's been going on forever and it's lame as can be.

I think this game proves that there is no such thing as a team being a cold weather team and we will somehow have an advantage.

All cold weather does is equalize things. It turns games in to luck of the draw.

Nobody likes playing in cold conditions, nobody likes sitting in cold conditions. People need to give up childhood memories of playing in the snow. Hockey is the only game that needs to be played in freezing conditions, and guess what, all but 1 game a year are played indoors.

It's not about trusting "us" or "you guys" as you say. It's about trusting the analytics of the situation which in the past you have been highly favorable of. The Browns have been one of the best in the NFL in man coverage yet use it the least. That's not an opinion.

^ This.


It's not luck of the draw, however. Each team is made up of guys from all over the country with all sorts of backgrounds all sorts of different levels of willingness to suffer for success in those sorts of conditions.

You have grown so old and grumpy that you refuse to even consider being educated. I posted my original points to help try to educate and all you want to do is argue by moving the goal posts.

You're no longer a teacher, we are not your students and this is not your classroom. The sooner you learn to accept that the better off we will all be. You call me grumpy yet fail to recognize that's the perception based on your own superiority complex. You act as though you're the smartest person in the room. You're not.

LOL..........of course you would find fault w/intelligent football talk and try to twist into another personality conflict.

It is what it is. Objectivity isn't your strong suit. To hear you tell it the only one who can possibly have a point in this forum is you. Anyone with a differing opinion has to be wrong. In your own post I responded to your claim was that you were educating me. Words have meaning.


That's exactly what I described in my follow up post. You simply refuse to own it.

I agree with what you said Peen.

I read this dumb comment by Pluto and similar from others over the years. How can you say this crap while their QB started 10+ years with the Bengals. Players are from all over the country, free agency/transactions change 20%+ of the roster every year, it's usually only cold for a a game or very few. It's a 17 game schedule (with just a few even close to the winter temps), it's not 60 game schedule throughout the winter. Just some of the reasons this is a dumbass comment this day in age.

Now if you want to say the weather can benefit or hurts a team's style of play, then I can agree with that.

While I think there is some merit to that the tendencies are for dome and warm weather teams to play a faster game than a physical game. Sure there are exceptions and the roster the teams field plays into that in some respects. But if this assertion is true then it's also true that the weather doesn't impact the passing game as much as some would like to indicate. First there is KC and Mahomes who seems to do well in cold weather conditions. Then there's the Bengals vs Patriots game played on Christmas Eve day.

Burrow went 40-52 and Mac Jones went 21-33. Cold weather didn't seem to hamper their passing games since both QB's threw for pretty much their season averages. In Burrows case even above his season avergae for accuracy.

Yes to this. Build a dome.

I agree with that assertion Pit.

Your examples is exactly what I was thinking while i was typing my post.

Just so I understand here - your premise seems to be that on a fan forum board, the fans should never offer an opinion on the coaches, their schemes, their successes or apparent failures - because none of us would even know as much as a professional coach in the NFL whose livelihood is coaching? If we do we are lame and you believe that anyone offering an opinion in these situations is pretending to be smarter than the coaches? I mean I honestly don't think I can read and interpret your post any other way.

Correct me or explain in more detail if I have not fully understood.

Retractable dome!

IMO, the issue with passing in bad weather isn't so much the cold rather the 20-30 mph winds.
They reported. that we had those duringour game. I don't know about the wind during Cincy game.

Hah. That is true he’s better than most of our other coaches since ‘99, but that’s like saying getting your hand slammed in a door is better than your family jewels. It’s true but I’d rather just not slam anything in the door.

I do have hope Stefanski can improve next year, but if not, oh well, maybe in another life we can win the SB haha

Fair point.

I still think there is a degree of randomness that is magnified and can't be factored in to the equation. I just chalk it up to luck of the draw. On another equally brutal day, maybe we catch some of those passes for TD's. Maybe we don't catch any passes. Maybe a defender slips and Chubb takes it to the house. Maybe Chubb slips and fumbles the ball.

Oh I certainly agree with that. But that would actually hold true in warm weather games as well. And if we're speaking of the Saints vs Browns game specifically as it pertains to Sunday you are most certainly correct. I was speaking in overall terms of how people seem to indicate that cold weather games have a big negative impact on the passing game.