DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski cont

So you have resorted to self diagnosis I see.

More name calling. Nice.

Mac - it could be. I don't know. Regardless of everything, I think we have as much or as little chance of landing Payton if that's what the Haslam's wanted. Watson crossed the Browns off his list - Jimmy flew to see him, dropped his pants, Watson signed. Same thing could happen if that's the way Jimmy and Dee wanted to go - Depo and Berry and KS would obviously / probably all be gone too. A huge change - but not impossible to imagine.

I'll sit tight and hope for the best. If KS is the coach next year - I hope he turns it all around and learns to be better. That's not beyond the realm of possible either.

I think Payton wanted to end up in LA with the Chargers. But I don’t think they move on from Staley now. I can also see him being a fit with Brady where he ends up

Yes you are!

Yeah, Payton wants to coach the Chargers. I think Staley is one of the very worst coaches in the league, but I get what you are saying because they made the playoffs this year. I don't see Payton going to Denver w/Russ and that GM. I don't see him coming to Cleveland w/our history of firing coaches and the fact that I don't see Depo wanting to relinquish so much power to one person. Dallas is still a possibility if they lose early in the playoffs. I still think the Chargers would be smart to hire him.

j/c:

I guess it's easy to confuse "He should have sh!tcanned Woods early on this season" with not playing Watson in week 12. Honest mistake.

Think about what you're saying, Denver a better landing spot than Cleveland? The Browns main issue is that they have underperformed for a poor HC. Denver has twice as many holes to fill than the Browns do. Payton is going to be looking for a team to get him a Championship. I'm sure his demands will include control of the roster and the draft. IMHO, it's an absolute no brainer to give that up to get the caliber of HC that Payton has proven to be. If that means parting with Berry and Depo besides Stefanski - then let's go baby. I go back to what I said before, the Browns will never know unless they try and try even harder than they did for Watson. As far a Denver goes, the blockbuster deal sent from Denver to Seattle two first-round picks, No. 9 overall in 2022 and a 2023 first-rounder; two second-round picks, (No. 40 overall pick in 2022 and a 2023 second-rounder), 2022's fifth-round pick, tight end Noah Fant, quarterback Drew Lock and defensive end Shelby Harris. So, you're basically looking at just the 2024 1st round pick as the difference between the two destinations (Denver or Cleveland) plus a brand-new ownership team that has zero experience in the NFL in Denver. Of the non-qualifying playoff teams that could have HC openings, name a team that has a better starting point roster than the Browns.

I think a lot of his choice will be based on the power structure. I'm sure he will feel he has earned the right to be in control and will choose some place willing to give him that control. I'm not sure that Haslam would be willing to do that but maybe. He will want the luxury of being in control of his own destiny.

Guess the Browns won't know until they have a sit down with Payton.

You really don't need a sit down until you touch base to see if there's an interest to begin with. If there's not, a a sit down is pointless. There's also the fact the New Orleans would have to agree to the compensation in order to give up their rights to Payton. None of this is as simple as you're making it sound.

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Never said it was simple but considering the effort put forth for Watson, equal or more effort should be given to Payton. Remember, Watson initially said "no" to the Browns. That didn't stop them from making the deal. hearing the Browns are not on Payton's radar is no excuse for not going all in.

With Payton it will be more about control than about the kings ransom Haslam may offer up. And once again, we don't have a first round pick to offer the Saints for the next three years. There's not enough ammo in the tank. The circumstances are completely different now after throwing all of you largest draft assets at getting watson. I know none of that seems to matter to you though.

Easy brother, most of the time I'm on your side. Everything you say is true but how do you know unless you try? The defeatist attitude is part of the problem the Browns have always had. You can't win if you're not in - the real defeat is to not try and eventually find out the Browns was his initial choice. The Broncos don't have a 1st round choice for the next two years yet I don't hear anyone saying they shouldn't at least try. This is a little different than Watson since as Rapoport has reported:

"Payton has two years remaining on his deal after signing his latest extension in 2019. The Saints technically hold his rights until 2024 if Payton wants to return to coaching. Should another team want to sign him during that time span, they would have to “compensate” NOLA somehow, whether through draft picks or money."

If it's money and/or higher round draft picks, Haslam has the ability and wallet to make such a deal. Giving Payton control is also a no brainer because he has more experience and knowledge than the current people in place anyway. Bottomline, if you're not in the game you can't win.

I agree. I can’t see him in Denver. I also think he always wanted to return to Dallas as the HC, which might be in the cards if they falter early in the playoffs

Nobody here influenced my thinking as far as Stefanski goes, the three year body of work that is trending downward and pretty much unravelling at the seams did. I do read Rish's takes, and didn't agree at first, but he has a good history of hitting the nail on the head with coaches, and he will be proven right again.

Jerry Jones loves Payton. He admits he made a mistake long ago. I don't think Jones would give Payton the power he would want, though.

Another thing to consider is how Payton demanded ignoring the cap and how New Orleans has been struggling to deal w/it lately. I don't think the salary cap is as big of a deal as it used to be, but if Payton has power........the cap will become an issue. I don't see us thinking that's okay.

I think the Browns will stay status quo w/the FO and HC. I think some fans will raise hell. The only way to deal w/them is to win and they will eventually shut up.

I don't think Sean Payton would come to Cleveland for any amount of money. Not the way our power structure is allegedly set up. He would want a lot of control over decisions, operations etc. at least that's what I've heard others say. He won't get that here. JMO

As it should be.

Win freaking football games. That's all that matters.

Raise your hand if you're tired of rooting for a loser.

Once again you're making assumptions. You have no idea if the Browns have reached out to Payton and or the Saints to see if they're anywhere close to being on the same page. And yes, I know we agree on some things but everything is on a case by case basis. In this case I feel you're basing everything on what you think and feel while not considering that a lot of things may be or may have been going on behind the scenes that none of us know about. You have no way of knowing if the Browns have reached to the Saints and or Payton.

I'm reading steve as simply saying that they should look into Payton...while also saying that any roadblocks we/they see - real or imagined - shouldn't matter or stop us from trying. I'm not seeing claims that we didn't pursue Payton...just opining that we should. JMO

I am tired of losing, but I am not tired of rooting for the team.

Exactly, roadblocks are inexcusable at this point because no one, including me, actually know what those roadblocks are currently. I nor anyone else knows or can pretend to know whether the Browns have reached out to Payton or not but as I said, there's no excuse for the Browns not making that contact and adjusting the offer if needed to be in the game not unlike what they did with Watson. For all the perceived and known shortcomings of the current hierarchy, Payton addresses all those concerns and Payton should be 1st on the Browns to do list at this point. They've invested heavily into the players and it's time to invest in the HC. If the Browns lose out, they lose out, but you have to be all into the game first.

j/c:

I think it is pretty clear that Stefanski will be back next year as our HC.

There only seems to be one flaw in that logic. If they've already reached out to Payton and the Saints there would be no reason to keep droning on about the Browns needing to reach out to Payton and the Saints. The very fact that he keeps going on about the need to do so is a very strong indication he believes it hasn't happened. And none of us have any way of knowing that either way.

While I would tend to agree with this I still don't understand the logic behind it. For me it would be a borderline call at best.

Came up with what I think is an interesting thought exercise. Let's look back at the games we have played this year and see if we think KS and staff out coached the opposing coaching staff or were out coached. I missed a few games this year and there were many that I don't remember enough to answer with any confidence, so I left those blank. He are my thoughts. Looking forward to hearing what you guys think


Week - team - who coached better

1 - Carolina - Push -> with Rhule who ended up getting fired

2 - NYJ - Slight advantage Saleh

3 - Pittsburgh - KS

4 - Atlanta - Arthur Smith

5 - LAC - Push but in a bad way -> felt like both coaches were going out of their way to lose the gsme

6 - NE - Belichick

7 - Baltimore -

8 - Cincinatti -

9 - Bye

10 - Miami - Mike McDaniel

11 - Buffalo -

12- TB -

13 - Houston -

14 - Cincinnati -

15 - Baltimore - KS

16 - NO - Dennis Allen

17 - Washington - TBD

18 - Pittsburgh - TBD



So for me, at this point in the season KS record vs other coaches is:
2 wins, 5 loses, 2 ties, 2 TBD and 6 I didn't feel able to answer

Again, I look forward to what you guys think. Especially for the games that I didn't see or didn't remember clearly enough

j/c:

Good points or nah?

Most of the good there took place in season 1, the COVID year where he coached from his basement. It's been downhill since.

And that one good year with a QB who just couldn't get it done the following year...with a torn non-throwing shoulder strapped to his flack jacket...and who was replaced with an elite QB for a bounty of draft capital and guaranteed cash.

In fairness, Memphis posted facts. The post before his was completely subjective and not even close to how I would grade the games. Regardless, there has always been far too much emphasis placed on coaching at this level and not enough on the talent they have on the team.

Well regards "facts" and good points or not?

Baker has the most wins of any QB since the return.
Baker was the QB and led the team to the best season since the return.
Baker led the team to their only play off win since the return.
Baker was named Rookie of the year.

I do not think it's even worth me asking the question whether that means Baker is good and should not be fired/traded. But the same 'facts' for KS are similarly 'facts' for BM.

With Stefanski and Baker - the bar was set ridiculously low. Bottom line the trend since their 'rookie' year for both of them has been down.

Yet, people are still crying because we didn't keep Baker. Gotta love the double standards.

I will say this again. Stefanski is going to be back next year whether or not some agenda poster grades who won the coaching battle in each and every game. Remember, that same poster told us that Covid gave Stefanski an advantage because of out analytics while completely ignoring having to install a completely new offense, a completely new defense, etc and in an environment where meeting your new personnel was extremely limited.

The double standard seems to exist because most every one of those accomplishments Stefanski achieved was with Baker at QB. Yet you elevate one and deride the other for the same achievements.

6-9

If the team loses the last two games in somewhat embarrassing fashion, Stefanski will not survive. Everyone cross your fingers.

I'm not crossing my fingers. The best thing that could happen is this team rallies around watson and Stefanski and plays lights out football for the last two games. That watson continues to improve. I'm not sure if Stefanski is the guy or not to lead the Browns to a SB but I'm also not convinced that he isn't.

You can lead the charge hoping for his complete failure if you like. It seems to be your thing. But don't expect me to hop on board.

If after three years you're not sure he's the one to lead you to a Super Bowl, you should do that cross your fingers thing I mentioned.