|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
Rocky Mountain News The Rockies are set to trade infielder Jamey Carroll to the Cleveland Indians for a minor league player. They just have to decide which player. While the Rockies were finalizing the details for the departure of Carroll, they also were emerging as the most viable alternative for free-agent second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, whose attempts to return to Philadelphia have stalled. The trade of Carroll would seem to assure Clint Barmes of the utility infield role and make rookie Jayson Nix the top in- house candidate to fill the second base vacancy created by the loss of free-agent second baseman Kazuo Matsui to Houston. But the Rockies could add to the candidates by signing Iguchi or David Eckstein, about whom they've had internal discussions. The Rockies have stuck to their plan of refusing to give more than a two-year guarantee, which has kept them from serious talks with Eckstein. Iguchi has adjusted his demands because the Phillies, the only other team currently showing interest, have focused on a two-year offer plus an option. San Diego and Milwaukee have been mentioned in connection with Iguchi. The Phillies want Iguchi to play third base, but agent Rocky Hall said Iguchi's preference is second base. That would seem to work to the Rockies' advantage, but Hall said Japanese players have reservations about taking positions previously played by countrymen. Iguchi is working out at third base in his native Japan this winter. More than the positional issue, the Phillies face a hurdle because they released Iguchi at the end of the 2007 season, in accordance with the three-year contract he originally signed with the Chicago White Sox. A released player cannot re-sign with his former team until May 15, a rule the Phillies were hoping to circumvent on grounds the contract was signed with the White Sox. But Major League Baseball has advised the Phillies it is unlikely such an appeal will be allowed, according to an MLB source. The Phillies would be willing to have Iguchi spend the first six weeks of the season playing third base at the minor league level, but whether he would agree is questionable. Carroll, who is guaranteed $2.3 million in 2008, was the Rockies' starting second baseman in 2006. He returned to a utility role in 2007, and there were indications he was uncomfortable with the idea he might not get an everyday opportunity in 2008. The Rockies originally appeared ready to acquire right- hander Sean Smith from the Indians, but complications arose and the teams are expected to talk today to determine other compensation.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
So a 33 year old utility infielder is the best we can do at this point?
Stunning numbers last year:
AVG .225 | HR 2 | RBI 22 | OBP .317 | SLG .300
Seems like a waste of a prospect. Let Barfield learn to play the other infield positions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
The Rockies are set to trade infielder Jamey Carroll to the Cleveland Indians for a minor league player.
WHEW!!! For a minute there, I was afraid we weren't going to do anything to counter the Tigers getting Cabera and Willis and the Yankees/Red Sox getting Santana. 
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
Honestly, I'm not sure how much needs to be done. Extend CC and I'll be content. Coming into the season there were two holes on the team that HAD to be filled, utility infielder and a bullpen arm to take some pressure off of Jensen and the Raffys. I'd like to get a nice bat to add to the lineup, but not at an above-market cost. I'm more impressed by Shapiro not caving and wanting to make a big splash to answer the bobbleheads on ESPN and what-not than I would be if he overpaid in getting Bay for LF.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
I heard Gammons and Onley both says that they liked us as the favorite still in the Central.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
I heard Gammons and Onley both says that they liked us as the favorite still in the Central.
...and Jamey Carroll is a big factor for that.  
Come on Shap, trade/sign a player that will actually make an IMPACT!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401 |
We already have players that make an impact, and if we only stay pat this year, we will still win our division again this year. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Quote:
We already have players that make an impact, and if we only stay pat this year, we will still win our division again this year.
I can taste that Heineken now.  That is if we are on again for next year. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401 |
You have not tasted any Heineken yet, but that coors light sure went down smooth  and Yep we are on again for this year, you deserve a chance to get even. (I.E. I want more free beer)
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Quote:
You have not tasted any Heineken yet, but that coors light sure went down smooth and Yep we are on again for this year, you deserve a chance to get even. (I.E. I want more free beer)
Um, that's only because you didn't pay up the year before last. 
This year it's my turn again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567 |
Quote:
I heard Gammons and Onley both says that they liked us as the favorite still in the Central.
And JulesDawg comes into play to give us the kiss of death.......
Seriously, I'd rather focus on re-signing C.C. Sabathia then the Jason Bay deal.... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Speaking of paying up..
DM.. are you and I even or do I still owe you?
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,401 |
I didn't pay up because SOMEBODY didn't make it to any of the three Browns games I attended 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
Quote:
Can Garko play the outfield or third ??
No. Not just no, but without a doubt in my mind, no. Garko was a poor catcher and started as a poor 1B, but worked his way up to average by the end of the season (below average range, above average at short-hops). Garko is a 1B for the rest of his career.
I cannot understand why people have this infatuation with moving Vic and Peralta. Their defense isn't Gold Glove caliber, but it is far from killing the team. Plus, these guys are worth the money they are getting for playing that position. Offensively, Vic is average at 1B and Peralta would be average at 3B. If you leave each at their true position, they are far above-average in value. When you are a small-market team you have to maximize value to compete (in this horrifically flawed system that we are forced to deal with).
I don't call it an infatuation; it's just an outtake from trying to keep Shoppach. I don't want to package him and Lee just to get a "corner bat." I'd leave Peralta at short for one more year, Blake at third, and leave Franklin in right unless they don't get Lofton back for left,...I wish Marte could get up here and play 3d,....since Gark's can't, maybe HE is the trade bait. I hate to get rid of him too with Hafner being such an iffy during the playoffs.
Tribe pitching is way too DEEP to just let Lee go fly a kite. Like you say, signing CC would be plenty, and require NO moves.
Again, all in all, good problems to have.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Can Garko play the outfield or third ??
No. Not just no, but without a doubt in my mind, no. Garko was a poor catcher and started as a poor 1B, but worked his way up to average by the end of the season (below average range, above average at short-hops). Garko is a 1B for the rest of his career.
I cannot understand why people have this infatuation with moving Vic and Peralta. Their defense isn't Gold Glove caliber, but it is far from killing the team. Plus, these guys are worth the money they are getting for playing that position. Offensively, Vic is average at 1B and Peralta would be average at 3B. If you leave each at their true position, they are far above-average in value. When you are a small-market team you have to maximize value to compete (in this horrifically flawed system that we are forced to deal with).
I don't call it an infatuation; it's just an outtake from trying to keep Shoppach. I don't want to package him and Lee just to get a "corner bat." I'd leave Peralta at short for one more year, Blake at third, and leave Franklin in right unless they don't get Lofton back for left,...I wish Marte could get up here and play 3d,....since Gark's can't, maybe HE is the trade bait. I hate to get rid of him too with Hafner being such an iffy during the playoffs.
Tribe pitching is way too DEEP to just let Lee go fly a kite. Like you say, signing CC would be plenty, and require NO moves.
Again, all in all, good problems to have.
I like having the depth, but besides the long man role in the bullpen, where do you put Lee. That there lies the problem. And Lee doesn't want the bullpen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
I guess now my main concern is we got this new second baseman I've never heard of,....
Does that mean Peralta moves off short or not,...?
Blake back to right --??
Is Lofton hanging yet or not,....??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
Carroll is a utility player, he'll take the Mike Rouse role and Barfield/Cabrera open the year at AAA. He can play 2B, SS, 3B, LF and CF. Think of him as a better version of a Joe Inglett.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Thanks 'log,...sure won't be hard to think of him as being better than Inglett 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326 |
The Tribe really doesn't have to go out and get new players... Look at how young the players are on this team and the experience they gained last season. We also have depth to get players from in house and waste prospects on players of uncertainty (Bay's down-year---will it continue?). Now I would love to see Alex Rios on this team even it took Franklin Gutierrez away, but we really don't need it.
I was one of those screaming for a trade after the Miguel/Willis deal, but I really thought about it and we're really in a good position right now. We have the depth to pull off a trade since pitching is in high demand and there is next to nothing on the FA market. This makes Lee, Laffey, Sowers, and possibly a few others available while keeping Miller, Lofgren, Huff for the future. We're loaded in the outfield with Choo, Francisco, Gutierrez, DeLucci, Michaels, Snyder, Crowe, and a number of others. While I would love to make a trade for a big bat in LF or RF.... Choo, Crowe, and possibly Francisco can be options as well even though they're bat is weak (except for maybe Benny)
We could also look into turning last years first rounder (Beau Mills) into a outfielder. If we do this we can get him to the bigs quicker because he had a big league bat, but has a wierd throwing motion that is keeping him off his original 3B spot and moving him to 1B. However he has exceptional speed for being 6'3 235 and could turn into a Holliday type outfielder/hitter IMO. If we can successfully do this and he goes through the system quickly, this allows us to keep Garko at 1B, Hafner at DH, and Victor C.
Also, I'm confused at what will happen with out infield next year.... 3B- is it Andy, Peralta, or Blake. SS- Peralta or Cabrera 2B- Cabrera or Barfield???
Marte is suppose to have this big league bat, but we've yet to see it. I think we need to put Marte at third to start the season next year with Peralta and Cabrera at SS and 2B. If Marte can prove he had that big league bat and show a sign of life then Casey become the Utility man. If not, and Peralta shows life at 3B during Spring Trainnig move him there and fill Cabrera's spot with Barfield.
Now... on to the youth of this team... Imagine if these players come back next year and get better as many young players do. We'll expect the same from Victor and C.C and so on, but those who haven't reached their potential yet... Sizemore, Cabrera, Garko, Gutierrez, etc.
I think Sizemore could be a future 30-30 guy year in year out and potentially hit .285 or better every season. Garko could ultimately turn into a plus .300 30-45 homerun guy. Gutierrez could turn into an Alex Rios type player hitting above .300 and 25 or 30 homeruns a year. Not to mention those that haven't gotten their chance in the bigs yet Josh Rodriguez, Adam Miller, Chuck Lofgren, and a few others. If these guys continue to progress, I truly believe we're the best team in the MLB through all levels (AAA....)
We also did what we did last with down years from Barfield, Hafner, and didn't get what we hoped for from Marte and Delucci. If Hafner and Barfield can bounce back and everyone else is on their game from last season or better then we should be the favorite to win the series; not just the division!!!!
I do think we have the pitching depth to make some big trades, but their are too many key pieces to this puzzle and the future of this club to give them up for one man. While Jason Bay would be nice if it comes at the expense of Gutierrez, I would be pretty upset because now who is playing right? We're back in the same position we were in when we started...
With all this being said, and if you've made it here thank you for reading, GO TRIBE and do your magic Shapiro!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253 |
Something has to be done about Peralta. He is not a bad hitter when he's not trying to pull the ball. Trouble is he's always trying to pull. I wish I had a dollar for every weak ground ball he hits to short or third. In the field if the ball is hit right to him he's a little bit adaquate. If he has to move much he's horrible. He's hard to watch as he fumbles around out there, especially after having Omar here all those years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Nice rumor,...but at what cost ??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326 |
Quote:
Nice rumor,...but at what cost ??
exactly... the cost is frightening.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326 |
Post deleted by Referee2
Last edited by Mercer2b; 12/09/07 08:36 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
I'm not sold on Jason Bay. His minor league stats don't show him being the player he was for two years. They don't show him as bad as last year, but rather around a .270 hitter with 20 HRs. I'm not giving up Shoppach for that.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,426 |
On a side note the Brewers have signed Eric Gagne for a one year 10 million dollar contract. Pretty risky move for a guy who has not been as effective as he once was.
Last edited by Rambo; 12/09/07 09:06 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567 |
That would be sick!
Last edited by Referee2; 12/09/07 11:55 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
Quote:
Just read on Yahoo.... look for the Bay to Cleveland deal to be revived in the next week or so... Pirates are more interested in Sowers or Laffey rather than Lee. They also want Shoppach. Gutierrez name was also mentioned but I think this is only in a deal where the Tribe would get Paulino as well.
Would love to see a Lee/Sowers/Laffey and Shoppach for Bay. If it comes at the cost of Gutierrez... I say no deal.
If we're going to move Laffey, I'd much rather deal him, another starter and a prospect or two for Haren. I don't see why we're even considering Bay given what Pittsburgh seems to be asking for.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just read on Yahoo.... look for the Bay to Cleveland deal to be revived in the next week or so... Pirates are more interested in Sowers or Laffey rather than Lee. They also want Shoppach. Gutierrez name was also mentioned but I think this is only in a deal where the Tribe would get Paulino as well.
Would love to see a Lee/Sowers/Laffey and Shoppach for Bay. If it comes at the cost of Gutierrez... I say no deal.
If we're going to move Laffey, I'd much rather deal him, another starter and a prospect or two for Haren. I don't see why we're even considering Bay given what Pittsburgh seems to be asking for.
That and Bay is essentially an older Gutierrez (as far as production goes). I say go for more pitching and leave Bay in Pitt.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
Quote:
Just read on Yahoo.... look for the Bay to Cleveland deal to be revived in the next week or so...
Anyway next time you read something on Yahoo you could provide a link?
I couldnt find that on yahoo.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just read on Yahoo.... look for the Bay to Cleveland deal to be revived in the next week or so...
Anyway next time you read something on Yahoo you could provide a link?
I couldnt find that on yahoo.
It was in the rumor section of MLB.... sorry about that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996 |
Now I have a link to the Haren rumors... Starting pitching market will get hot Ken Rosenthal FOXSports.com, Updated 19 hours ago STORY TOOLS: This could be the week when the starting-pitching market begins to shake out. The week when Japanese free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda signs with the Mariners, Dodgers or Diamondbacks. The week when the Diamondbacks or Indians trade for A's right-hander Dan Haren. Maybe even the week that the Mariners or Dodgers obtain Orioles left-hander Erik Bedard and some team finally acquires Twins lefty Johan Santana. The trade of Haren could happen first — and the Diamondbacks and Indians, two clubs deep in young talent, are in the best position to make a deal, according to major-league sources. Once Kuroda signs and Haren is traded, the A's Joe Blanton would become the best right-hander available in trade or free agency, giving general manager Billy Beane greater trade leverage. From every indication, Beane is poised to acquire younger players and gear toward the opening of Cisco Field in 2011. Such a rebuilding program would raise questions about the A's interest in Barry Bonds, who would fit with the club only if it planned to contend. The Diamondbacks' offer for Haren is believed to include Class AAA outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, Class AAA second baseman Emilio Bonifacio and Class AA left-hander Brett Anderson, among others. The Indians' advantage is that they can offer superior major-league ready pitching, including righty Adam Miller, who projects as either a top-of-the-rotation starter or closer, and lefty Aaron Laffey, a sinker-baller who could develop into another Mark Buehrle. Haren, the starting pitcher for the American League in the 2007 All-Star Game, could form a potent trio with C.C. Sabathia and Fausto Carmona in Cleveland — and protect the Indians against the loss of Sabathia as a free agent at the end of the season. Or he could combine with Brandon Webb to give the Diamondbacks a formidable 1-2 punch at the top of their rotation — a rotation that also would include Doug Davis, Micah Owings and possibly Randy Johnson. Haren's contract makes him a bargain: He is signed for $4 million in '08 and $5.5 million in '09, and his deal also includes a $6.75 million club option for '10 that could become guaranteed if he pitches a certain number of innings. Bedard is under control for two more seasons and his salaries will be higher in arbitration. The teams interested in him include the Mets, Mariners, Dodgers, Reds and Cardinals. The Red Sox and Yankees also like Bedard, but it is doubtful the Orioles would trade him to an AL East rival. The Reds are heavily interested in Bedard, sources say, but unwilling to part with prized outfield prospect, Jay Bruce, a potential deal-breaker. The Dodgers can offer perhaps the strongest proposal, but they have yet to complete a major off-season trade in Ned Colletti's two years as GM, preferring to sign free agents and hold their prospects. The Mariners could be the team to watch — they want to trade for Bedard even if they sign Kuroda, and they're signaled a willingness to part with outfielder Adam Jones, who is perhaps the most attractive young player the Orioles could acquire in any deal. Jones, frequently compared to Torii Hunter, could become the Orioles' biggest African-American star since Eddie Murray. The inclusion of right-hander Brandon Morrow and/or catcher Jeff Clement would make the deal that much more tempting for Baltimore. The Orioles, according to sources, also are entertaining the idea of packaging Bedard with shortstop Miguel Tejada to yield an even higher return. Such a proposal would make particular sense for the Dodgers, who have the need for both players and the young talent to make such a deal occur. Finally, there is Santana. The Red Sox continued to talk with the Twins over the weekend. The Mets desperately want to be in. The Yankees refuse to rule themselves out. It still seems likely that Santana will be traded, likely that he will sign a monster extension, and likely that the biggest moves in the baseball off-season are yet to come. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7548574
![[Linked Image from media.scout.com]](http://media.scout.com/media/avatars/1/6/GlennChannell.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,996 |
Tribe pursues deal for A's pitcher Acquiring Dan Haren might require giving up talented, but cheaper, players Published on Wednesday, Dec 12, 2007 So you thought the Indians were looking for a masher to avoid those nasty slumps that brought the club down in the middle of last season. General Manager Mark Shapiro has searched for an appropriate hitter — everyone knows that he tried to pry loose Jason Bay from the Pittsburgh Pirates — but apparently he has run out of options. If nobody wants to make a deal that Shapiro can live with, then he must look elsewhere to keep up with the Joneses — rather, the Detroit Tigers, who raised the ante in the American League Central Division by acquiring Dontrelle Willis, Miguel Cabrera and Edgar Renteria. Shapiro and manager Eric Wedge have the ''We only worry about ourselves'' speech down pat, but the reality is if a division rival makes a quantum leap forward, Shapiro has to answer, if possible. And as much as the Tribe's deep thinkers try to spin it, signing a Japanese relief pitcher and a utility infielder isn't likely to solve all the team's problems, let alone get the attention of the Tigers. Making a deal for Dan Haren, on the other hand, would give the Indians arguably the best rotation in the AL. So if Shapiro can't acquire a hitter to outslug the Tigers, maybe he can trade for a starting pitcher who can slow down the Tigers' offense. So the rumors on the Internet involving talks between Shapiro and Oakland Athletics General Manager Billy Beane certainly have the ring of truth. It's no secret that Beane is willing to trade Haren, even though at 27, he is young and has a club-friendly contract. At least to most clubs. As it concerns the Athletics, however, there probably is no such thing, at least until they move into their new stadium, Cisco Field, in Fremont, about 15 miles from San Jose. Move-in date is hoped to be the start of the 2011 season, which gives Beane three years to trade his veterans (young or old) for prospects and forge them into major-league players before the ballpark opens. The Indians are not the only team thirsting for Haren. The Arizona Diamondbacks are believed to be offering two Triple-A players — outfielder Carlos Gonzalez and second baseman Emilio Bonfacio — plus Double-A pitcher Brett Anderson and maybe others. Shapiro has an edge, because he can tempt Beane with players who have been tested in the big leagues: Aaron Laffey, Josh Barfield, Ben Francisco, possibly Jeremy Sowers, even prized prospect Adam Miller, though it is far from certain that he would be part of the deal. Shapiro would like Cliff Lee to be part of a Haren trade, but Beane probably would shy away from a player who actually earns more than the big-league minimum. Haren not only would give the Tribe a talented starter for 2008, but he also would provide protection in the event C.C. Sabathia chooses to become a free agent after next season. The Indians could control Haren for at least the next three years at a total cost of $16.25 million, which includes a $6.75 million option for 2010 that can become guaranteed if he pitches a specified number of innings. So how would this rotation stack up with the best of the best? Sabathia, Haren, Fausto Carmona, Jake Westbrook and Paul Byrd. Of course, there's a catch, or at least something to caution those ready to buy playoff tickets. The past two seasons, Haren has dazzled opposing batters the first half of the schedule, only to falter after the All-Star break. In 2006, Haren posted a 3.53 ERA in the first half, 4.91 after. During the past season (15-9, 3.07 ERA overall), he was virtually unhittable before the All-Star Game, compiling a 2.30 ERA and .205 batting average against. But in August, he was 1-2 with a 4.15 ERA, and in September his record dipped to 1-4 with a 4.82 ERA. Even so, looking at the big picture, it's hard to hold that against Haren. http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/12401496.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Wow, I would take Haren over a hundred free Bay's.
Pitching beats hitting.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
It's not a stretch to say that landing Harren would immediately make us the WS front runner. Sabathia, Carmona and Haren. If that happens, I may die of happiness.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
I heard they want 'Drubes, Miller and Laffey.
I dont know about all that.
Unless Millers elbow is worse than they say.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 871
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 871 |
I don't know about gutting our farm system for just one guy...it could set us back a few years if we did that.
"My opinions and feelings are mine and shall not be influenced by anyone....especially liberals."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
Quote:
I heard they want 'Drubes, Miller and Laffey.
I dont know about all that.
Unless Millers elbow is worse than they say.
As much as I like Cabrera, unless we view him as an all-star, you move him for a top of the rotation guy. Second base is a luxury position. As long as you have someone else that is a good defender, anything else you get from the position on offense is gravy. We also have a few younger guys (I believe Crowe was a 2B out of college) who could fill in, as well as the nobody we picked up from Colorado.
Laffey showed some promise but at the same time, it was a very short stint. Guys flame out all the time as pitchers after showing glimpses of being good (see Sowers). If we add Haren, doesn't that leave Miller out anyway? I don't see Westbrook or Byrd losing a rotation spot to an unproven AAA pitcher, regardless of his potential. Are we going to let him rot in the minors or use him as a piece to bring in a bonafide major league #1/2 in his prime. Haren isn't a rent-a-arm. He's a great insurance policy if we can't re-sign C.C.
I would try to wiggle on Cabrera but if he's the key to the deal, you easily trade your 2B for a guy who has won 14 or more games the last 3 seasons in a row. Last season he was 15-9 with a 3.07 ERA.....On a bad team I may add. Can you even imagine being able to match him up against other teams #3's?  Haren just turned 27 in september.....he has a ton of pitching left in him.
I don't like unloading prospects but given we'd be getting one of the 10 or so best pitchers in the AL in return, at a young age and a reasonable 3 year contract I think you pull the trigger. Especially when we're keeping Gute out of the deal. We can easily recoup prospects down the road but a small market team can't always land top tier talent at a reasonable price.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,639 |
Quote:
As much as I like Cabrera, unless we view him as an all-star,
He plays gold glove defense and if he keeps progressing the way he has in the box he could be an all -star.
Quote:
(I believe Crowe was a 2B out of college
Crowe is not playing 2nd base in the majors, they gave it a whirl in the minors and it didnt work out.
Quote:
If we add Haren, doesn't that leave Miller out anyway? I don't see Westbrook or Byrd losing a rotation spot to an unproven AAA pitcher,
No, Miller isnt projected to be in the rotation this year, but he is a front line starter, unless the injury is worse than they are letting on.
Haren is young and fairly cheap, and our rotation would be sick, no doubt. But he has also flamed out the last 2 years in the second half. Im just not sure I would give all that up considering we already have one of the top rotations in the majors as it is right now.
Eat it Phil...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
No way I touch that trade. Ironically, the one guy I'm okay trading there is Miller. I'd have to be wowed to trade Laffey, Cabrera or Nick Weglarz. Anybody else from the minor league system I can deal with (prefer not both of Miller and Lofgren, leave me one). I'm all for making a trade, but those three are way too much, even for Dan Haren. If I'm ranking the young players in the Indians system (off the top of my head... I may miss somebody), they'd go this way:
1) Asdrubal Cabrera SS
2) Aaron Laffey LHP
3) Adam Miller RHP
4) Jordan Brown 1B/OF
5) Chuck Lofgren LHP
6) Nick Weglarz OF
7) Wes Hodges 3B
8) Jeff Stevens RHP
9) Beau Mills 1B/3B
10) Jared Goedert 2B/3B
11) Scott Lewis RHP
12) David Huff LHP
13) Trevor Crowe OF
14) Carlos Rivero SS
15) Josh Rodriguez SS/2B
16) Sean Smith RHP
17) Reid Santos LHP
18) Ryan Mulhern 1B/OF
19) Tony Sipp LHP
20) John Drennan OF
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum *Official Indians Offseason/Winter
Meetings Thread*
|
|
