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No, Miller isnt projected to be in the rotation this year, but he is a front line starter, unless the injury is worse than they are letting on.
He's had arm injuries the past two seasons, both I think pertaining to his elbow and also a finger injury on his pitching hand. For whatever reason, flashes of Kerry Wood come to mind when I see Miller.....a talented guy who's health may leave him. If he has value now, I would try to unload him. I personally think his elbow will continually bother him.
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Haren is young and fairly cheap, and our rotation would be sick, no doubt. But he has also flamed out the last 2 years in the second half. Im just not sure I would give all that up considering we already have one of the top rotations in the majors as it is right now.
That may have to do with Oakland's middle relief (or maybe lack-thereof). I personally just think he has been throwing way too many innings late in to games. The last 3 seasons he's gone well over the 200 inning mark. I think he can be strong down the stretch, we just have to watch his innings (which shouldn't be a problem at all with Lewis emerging).
As for Cabrera, while I'm reluctant to trade him, pitching wins championships. Does Asdrubal have a ton of talent? Sure, he does but do you think he'll be exponentially better then he was this year? We might sacrifice a little offense but getting another capable arm could push us over the top......more so then a bat IMO. I also like the deal because we're getting a top of the rotation guy at a reasonable price. While I'd like to think we'll try to sign C.C., I just don't know if the money is there. Replacing him with Haren for the next few seasons would at the very worst give us a capable starter and buy the front office/coaches some more time to develop some young guys.
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1st String
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No way I touch that trade. Ironically, the one guy I'm okay trading there is Miller. I'd have to be wowed to trade Laffey, Cabrera or Nick Weglarz. Anybody else from the minor league system I can deal with (prefer not both of Miller and Lofgren, leave me one). I'm all for making a trade, but those three are way too much, even for Dan Haren. If I'm ranking the young players in the Indians system (off the top of my head... I may miss somebody), they'd go this way:
1) Asdrubal Cabrera SS
2) Aaron Laffey LHP
3) Adam Miller RHP
4) Jordan Brown 1B/OF
5) Chuck Lofgren LHP
6) Nick Weglarz OF
7) Wes Hodges 3B
8) Jeff Stevens RHP
9) Beau Mills 1B/3B
10) Jared Goedert 2B/3B
11) Scott Lewis RHP
12) David Huff LHP
13) Trevor Crowe OF
14) Carlos Rivero SS
15) Josh Rodriguez SS/2B
16) Sean Smith RHP
17) Reid Santos LHP
18) Ryan Mulhern 1B/OF
19) Tony Sipp LHP
20) John Drennan OF
I could be wrong but Weglarz has done nothing but hit homeruns and strike out. I would give Weglarz up in a heart beat... I would love to keep Cabrera on this team and trade them Josh Rodriguez... It sounds like Josh is a little better than maybe the Indians even thought he would be at this point. I would part with everybody on your list except for Brown, Lofgren, Miller, Cabrera, and Sipp. I think Drennen has a huge upside, but I thought he would progress quicker than what he has. I think we could pull Haren in by giving up David Huff, Josh Rodriguez, Aaron Laffey or Jeremy Sowers, and Ben Francisco. If this isn't good enough, I'm giving them Trevor Crowe instead of Benny.
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1st String
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No, Miller isnt projected to be in the rotation this year, but he is a front line starter, unless the injury is worse than they are letting on.
He's had arm injuries the past two seasons, both I think pertaining to his elbow and also a finger injury on his pitching hand. For whatever reason, flashes of Kerry Wood come to mind when I see Miller.....a talented guy who's health may leave him. If he has value now, I would try to unload him. I personally think his elbow will continually bother him.
I know I just said we need to keep him and that he was untuochable, but come to think about it.... why not give up Miller... We have Lofgren in the wings and Huff has been progressing pretty good from what I understand... A rotation of CC, Haren, Fausto, Lofgren, and Laffey or Sowers would be very sweet for the future.
Another reason we HAVE to make this trade happen is in case we can't get CC to resign! GOD, PLEASE DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN!!!!
If we are able to retain Shoppach, Lee, and Francisco from this deal... I say offer those three and possible a 2nd tier prospect to the Pirates for Bay or Jays for Rios... I would take Bay or Rios, but not by giving up Gutierrez in return.
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Weglarz had a .400 OBP at age 19!!! Typically, power and batting eye are the last tools to develop for a player. He had 23 HRs and 82 walks at age 19 in A ball! Barring injury, he looks like an Adam Dunn with a better BA (in the .270 range). He won't top prospect lists, but I really, really don't want to give this kid up. He'll start at Kinston next year, and its quite possible he makes it to Akron at age 20! He is arguably the prospect that I'm most excited about in the entire system.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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1st String
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Weglarz had a .400 OBP at age 19!!! Typically, power and batting eye are the last tools to develop for a player. He had 23 HRs and 82 walks at age 19 in A ball! Barring injury, he looks like an Adam Dunn with a better BA (in the .270 range). He won't top prospect lists, but I really, really don't want to give this kid up. He'll start at Kinston next year, and its quite possible he makes it to Akron at age 20! He is arguably the prospect that I'm most excited about in the entire system.
Alright... I hadn't really looked into his stats too much sorry... I had heard that he was a homerun hitter, but struck out far too often. I personally would like to move Mills to the OF as well, but that's just because if he makes it to the Bigs fast it may mean the end for Garko. I want them both lol.
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Mills is actually staying at 3B, not moving to 1B for now. They were going to move him because of a shoulder injury. However, he didn't need shoulder surgery and it has healed exceptionally well. I'm not sure he'll stay at 3B long-term, but right now he is staying there.
As much as I love Garko, he is a Billy Beane player and could see him included in any Haren trade because 1B isn't the most difficult position to fill whether it be with Shoppach and moving Vic to 1B, playing Blake there, or pushing the development of Jordan Brown. I could easily see Garko being the centerpiece of a Haren trade.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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1st String
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Mills is actually staying at 3B, not moving to 1B for now. They were going to move him because of a shoulder injury. However, he didn't need shoulder surgery and it has healed exceptionally well. I'm not sure he'll stay at 3B long-term, but right now he is staying there.
As much as I love Garko, he is a Billy Beane player and could see him included in any Haren trade because 1B isn't the most difficult position to fill whether it be with Shoppach and moving Vic to 1B, playing Blake there, or pushing the development of Jordan Brown. I could easily see Garko being the centerpiece of a Haren trade.
AHHH... Don't say such a think lol. I didn't know we were keeping Mills at 3B for the time being. I thought it was a given that he was moving to 1B because of that awkward, slow release *cough PERALTA cough*.
Anyways... as much as I would hate to see Garko go... if it lands Haren without getting rid of Miller AND Lofgren then I may be cool with it as long as we can fill 1B. I think we should make Micahel Aubrey a part of the deal instead of Gark, LOL. Then Aubs will get hurt getting on the plane.
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Giants sign free-agent Rowand to bolster outfield SAN FRANCISCO -- Aaron Rowand wanted some longterm stability, and so did the San Francisco Giants. Rowand agreed to a $60 million, five-year contract with the Giants on Wednesday, giving the club a center fielder without having to trade pitchers Matt Cain or Tim Lincecum. The 30-year-old Rowand is expected to bat fifth for San Francisco after spending the past two seasons with the Philadelphia Phillies. Before that, he helped the Chicago White Sox win the 2005 World Series. "Bottom line, I wanted to get in a spot where I would be longterm," said Rowand, who noted he weighed four or five similar multiyear offers. "In this day of free agency, that's not commonplace. That's really the thing I was looking forward to most." He is coming off his best season yet, earning his first Gold Glove award and All-Star selection while helping the Phillies to the NL East title. Rowand batted .309 with 27 home runs and career bests of 89 RBIs, 105 runs, 189 hits, 45 doubles in 161 games. General manager Brian Sabean repeatedly said he hoped to hold onto Cain and Lincecum, but being a last-place team it was his responsibility to be open-minded and listen. "With this move, we will no longer listen to any offers for Cain and Lincecum," Sabean said. "We know the value of both individuals believe me, maybe more so now that we've gone through this exercise. They might be the hottest two names in baseball." While manager Bruce Bochy had said Rajai Davis would get a chance to earn the job come spring training, Rowand was brought in to provide a consistent, hard-nosed presence in that position. That means Dave Roberts likely will shift from center to left field to replace departed home run king Barry Bonds, Randy Winn will stay put in right while Davis and some of the other young outfielders share time in a reserve role. That is, if the Giants don't try to deal them -- something Sabean said is a possibility. Bochy recently met with Rowand during a trip to Las Vegas, where the outfielder lives during the offseason. "I said I wanted to change the culture of the clubhouse and get back to the warrior mentality and play the game hard for nine innings," Bochy said. "Aaron's the type of player who can do that. He's the type of player who can hold everyone accountable." The Giants haven't reached the playoffs since 2003. They re-signed 11-time Gold Glove shortstop Omar Vizquel last month, but still have a hole to fill at third and possibly first. If the Giants don't bring back Pedro Feliz at third, Kevin Frandsen or Rich Aurilia might wind up playing that spot. Sabean said San Francisco will speak to Feliz soon, but the team doesn't plan to give him a three-year deal. "We still have to address what have to do at third base," Sabean said. "We'll wade through what the possibilities are. We're not shutting it off." The Dodgers (82-80) and Giants (71-91) brought up the rear in the NL West for just the second time since division play began in 1969. When evaluating Rowand over the other available center fielders, Sabean said he met with his staff and checked off the many boxes where Rowand could help the club. "Then it was just a matter of striking a chord with a contract," Sabean said. "He's a winning player. It's a pleasure he's coming to our organization. The timing is great. It will allow us to do other business without busting up our pitching." Rowand said he believes the Giants will contend in the much-improved division. One thing is certain, many of his new fans will remember Rowand for his hard collision with the wall during May 2006 -- a game in Philadelphia against the New York Mets -- that left him with a broken nose and broken bones around his left eye. Rowand said being known as a gritty player is the utmost of compliments. "Hopefully when I'm done playing this game, that's what I'll be remembered for," Rowand said.
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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The Giants are arguably the worst run franchise in baseball right now. They spent money there just to spend money, which will drive prices up for everybody else. They are rebuilding, with a mediocre system, and decide to throw this money around on a slightly above-average player who's numbers are greatly inflated by playing in Chicago and Philly for the best years of his career. Aaron Rowand is a nice player, but not at that price. On the plus side, the White Sox didn't get him back and they were trying, so I'm okay with the Giants wasting money.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Deal might add Haren to rotation
Wednesday, December 12, 200
7Paul HoynesPlain
Dealer Reporter
Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro has had an on-going dialogue with reporters since the season ended with a loss in the seventh game of the AL Championship Series. Asked where he was going to try and improve the team for next season, Shapiro would list the positions that don't need improvement.
He usually starts with center field, goes to catcher, then DH and so forth. He never really mentions starting pitching; then again, it didn't seem necessary. Not with C.C. Sabathia, Fausto Carmona, Jake Westbrook, Paul Byrd and three candidates for the No. 5 spot in Cliff Lee, Jeremy Sowers and Aaron Laffey.
But Shapiro, confident he has a contender should the season open today, has the freedom to explore options he might normally ignore. It's the reason he's talked to Oakland GM Billy Beane about a trade for right-hander Dan Haren, who started last season's All-Star Game ahead of Sabathia.
It's the same reason Shapiro has asked about Joe Blanton, Haren's teammate, and Baltimore right-hander Erik Bedard.
Offense is still be the Indians' need, but with trade talks for Pittsburgh outfielder Jason Bay and St. Louis third baseman Scott Rolen grounded, Shapiro is exploring different ways to make the Indians better.
A rotation of Sabathia, Carmona, Haren, Westbrook and Byrd would certainly help neutralize the beast that Detroit's lineup has become with the addition of Miguel Cabrera, Edgar Renteria and Jacque Jones. It would also offer protection for the future with Sabathia and Byrd free agents after the 2008 season.
Haren's health - unlike that of Bay (knee) and Rolen (shoulder) - is not in question. He's won 43 games over the past three years and pitched 217 innings or more each year.
Salary wouldn't be a problem. Haren, 27, will make $4 million in 2008, $5.5 million in 2009 and $6.75 million in a club option for 2010.
The sticking point is the players the Indians would have to give up.
If Beane trades Haren and Blanton, his two best starters, it means the A's are rebuilding.
Beane has done this before, trading aces Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder after the 2004 season to begin a rebuilding phase that is ongoing. Beane received pitchers Juan Cruz and Dan Meyer and outfielder Charles Thomas from Atlanta for Hudson. Not a great deal for a pitcher who's won 43 games over the last three years.
He did better with Mulder, receiving reliever Kiko Calero, Haren and catcher Daric Barton. Mulder won 16 games for the Cardinals in 2005, but has struggled with shoulder problems ever since.
The Indians figure it will cost at least one player off their 25-man roster and at least one more that could contribute sometime during the season. The competition for Haren would be strong. The Yankees, Dodgers and Arizona are believed to have the inside track.
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Imagine that...the Yankees in the mix. You know if they are in the mix, the new Evil Empire isn't far behind. Wouldn't surprise me that they get Santana AND Haren.
Shapiro is looking at the pitching beats hitting route. We found out in 1995 that even with one of the best offensive line-ups in modern history, we couldn't beat an ace-filled pitching staff.
"My signature line goes here."
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It doesn't really bother me that NY is getting in to the mix. With a guy like Beane, he's not going to take the crap New York usually offers up to other teams looking to unload a player.
If we want Haren, we can get him IMO. Our minor league farm system is stocked full of talented players across the board, including some very good young arms. We have exactly what Oakland wants in return (young arm, young everyday position player and possibly a AA or AAA prospect) it's just a question of wether or not Beane and Shapiro can hammer out a deal that both sides would like.
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Cliff Lee, Adam Miller,Andy Marte and a player to be named later for Haren. 
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The Diamondbacks just completed a trade to get Haren.
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The Diamondbacks just completed a trade to get Haren.
link?
Eat it Phil...
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...7&fext=.jsp
Thanks.
PHOENIX -- The D-backs completed a deal to acquire right-handers Dan Haren and Connor Robertson from the A's in exchange for six prospects, it was announced Friday afternoon.
In addition, the D-backs sent closer Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for infielder Chris Burke and right-handers Chad Qualls and Juan Gutierrez.
Included in the trade to Oakland are pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland along with outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.
Steve Gilbert is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
Last edited by brownsfan2119; 12/14/07 07:42 PM.
Eat it Phil...
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In addition, the D-backs sent closer Jose Valverde to the Astros in exchange for infielder Chris Burke and right-handers Chad Qualls and Juan Gutierrez.
Great trade for the D-Backs.
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Included in the trade to Oakland are pitchers Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland along with outfielders Carlos Gonzalez and Aaron Cunningham and first baseman Chris Carter.
The D-Backs gave up a lot, but I think its actually a fair deal for both teams. One of those rare trades where I'm not sure there is a clear-cut winner.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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OP
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Damn..... Come on Shapiro....I am so sick of looking into a player but not getting him... It's frustrating, we aren't perfect. We gotta do SOMETHING besides Kobayashi.... 
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum *Official Indians Offseason/Winter
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