DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski cont

It's not fallacy, it's fact. He went 700+ days, 2 entire years, between live games. Anytime a professional athlete misses time, the layoff is counted as the time missed between games, not some number based on your silly formula.

We don't have to fight about it, if you want to give Watson credit for the time off during the off season that every player gets then that's your opinion. I'm just saying that the 480 days missed during the off season didn't create anymore rustiness than it does to any other player that's missing that time. Watson's not unique in having no live games during the off season - no player does during that time. Besides, Watson was using that time off to be a sexual predator.

2 years away is a lot, and needs to be considered. I think Stefanski could have and should have come up with better game plans to account for the rust. Back to the thread topic, I'm officially off the Stefanski wagon. He needs to go, and I think he wants to go.

If you really think about it, Watson shouldn't have any rust at all. If you consider actual game time, he only missed 16 hours. But then again, the offense only has the ball half the time, so really just 8 hours. But a lot of those are running plays, so really just 5.4 hours. But let's be honest, a lot of the time he's just standing in the pocket doing nothing... more like 3.1 hours.
If you really think about it, Watson shouldn't have any rust at all. If you consider actual game time, he only missed 16 hours. But then again, the offense only has the ball half the time, so really just 8 hours. But a lot of those are running plays, so really just 5.4 hours. But let's be honest, a lot of the time he's just standing in the pocket doing nothing... more like 3.1 hours.

The NFL is a great league because of parity. Unless your organization is totally dysfunctional or in a total rebuild, it's difficult to put consecutive losing seasons back-to-back without generating a HC change. Unless you are a year-1 coach taken over a struggling franchise (in most cases), a 2-year consecutive team losing record is usually a one-way ticket out of town. There are currently 7-teams in the NFL that have had consecutive losing seasons:

Chicago: 6-11 in 2021 - Fired HC, 3-14 in 2022
Houston: 4-13 in 2021 - Fired HC, 3-13-1 in 2022 - Fired HC
Denver: 7-10 in 2021 - Fired HC, 5-12 in 2022 - Fired HC
Atlanta: 7-10 in 2021 - Fired HC, 7-10 in 2022
Carolina: 5-12 in 2021, 7-10 in 2022 - Fired HC
Cleveland 8-9 in 2021, 7-10 in 2022
NY Jets 4-13 in 2021, 7-10 in 2022

As you can see, only 2 of the seven teams with consecutive losing seasons have not made a HC move to date. Saleh, for the NYJets, has been there for 2-years but increased the team win total by 3-games in 2022 over 2021 (almost doubling the win total.) Stefanski has been with Cleveland for 3-years with each year being progressively worse than the previous year. Saleh and Stefanski are the only HC's in the NFL to have currently been able to hold on to their jobs with consecutive losing seasons the last 2-years with Stefanski holding the unwelcomed title as the only coach in the NFL with consecutive losing seasons the last 2-years with 2022 being worse than 2021. Only in Cleveland................

JC
Not sure where to put it, but all of this is why I like a coach who also is selecting the players and controlling roster.

No doubt the coach relies on scouting and whoever his trusted arm might be, but that way there is no divide between coaching, selection, and roster build.

I think it also impacts the players. The players know the guy coaching them is also the guy in control of their future on that team.

It's just my opinion but when you look at the Browns hierarchy and the special terms of Stefanski's contract, I've come to the conclusion that the Browns do not actually have a head coach in the normal sense. Stefanski is actually the OC for the Browns with an OC assistant in Van Pelt. Woods (formerly) was the DC with Jeff Anderson in charge of quality control. Each week, Stefanski and Woods had to present their game plans for the upcoming game to Berry and the analytics team for approval (aka the HC Team) and then was monitored by the analytics team on game day. Every Monday then, the game results were reviewed with Stefanski and Woods by Haslam and the analytics team. There have been numerous articles detailing that this process is actually outlined in Stefanski's contract. The following article details the specific terms in Stefanski's contract that limits his authority.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...specific-terms-that-limit-his-authority/

Exactly, sometimes you just have to fess up and admit you have made a gross error in judgement.

The preparing the game plan rumor is beyond laughable. There is no freaking way that is true. I do think that Stefanski meets w/those above him, but that is not all that unusual. I also don't see it as a negative ad to receive intel from those who are in charge of the analytics department. The rest is nonsense.

LOlz.

Nice video, very informative. I do concur with his thought on either being all in or not. The vast majority of the fans on this forum have outwardly stated that 2023 is a playoff year or bust. Heck, that was even emphasized in the video and included his opinion on all jobs being on the line if that doesn't happen. The issue I have with all of this is a) I don't believe Stefanski has the leadership skills to do that but even more importantly b) IMHO, Stefanski doesn't last half the season if the Browns start out let's say 1-4, 2-5, 3-6 or something similar. Like he stated in the video, if Stefanski is starting the season out on the hot seat and/or he doesn't make the major changes that needs to be done to this team, then the Browns should just go ahead and fire him now instead of half azzing it like they always do.

I don't know if Stefanski is safe or not this week though many of you claim you do. What I'm pretty positive of is that if he stays, he absolutely will be on the hotseat starting with game 1. I also believe that seat will get hotter with every loss and JMHO, there is no way in hell that Haslam lets Stefanski finish the season because the moment it appears they are not playoff bound, no matter the excuse, Stefanski will be fired.

Keeping with the thought process of the video, if what I believe will be the case, the Browns are half azzing it and next year will make this year look like a walk in the park if they don't address Stefanski now.

I was always of the opinion that KS should get another year with DW to see what he can do with him. I still pretty much feel that way but the more posts like yours I read the more I'm starting to lean in the other direction. On the fence at this point.

Why let AVP go? What exactly does he do? Cutting him will just give SKI a huge excuse for losing.

He missed 33 work days/opportunities of "live starts". The rest of what he "missed" is everything he was here for during all of 2022. He was here for practices, mini-camps, training camp, preseason, meetings, etc.... almost NINE MONTHS of it by the time he was back on the field. Counting that stuff as "missed" from the previous couple of years is disingenuous, at best, because he had several hundred of the most recent days of getting back into the swing of things.

I used to train for a particular sport a LOT. I haven't trained for that sport since 2016. If I start training for that sport now and string together several months of training, the time away counts for nothing because I've been doing it.

"That was OK with Stefanski, or he wouldn’t have gotten the job. It’s unclear whether it would have been OK with Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. By all indications and objective measurements, McDaniels is far more accomplished and experienced than Stefanski, who first became offensive coordinator late in the 2018 regular season and has only one full year in the job"

I just say wow!!!

If this report are correct then we didn't even hired the best candidate available, we just took the guy who acceptet Depodesta/GM/Haaslam's unusual contract terms. Already there this was a highly risky recruitment and that's because of an unsecure owner who was so uncertain of his own ability to hire the right HC that he and his sidekicks wanted a young puppy who could without any longer protests sit, lie down and bark on given commando.

So funny that on the DC thread posters are talking about having a Flores as DC so he can take over the team midseason if Stefanski gets fired. Can you say half azz commitment - the exact thing the video warns against. So funny that it would even be a consideration to hire the right DC so he can take over. This is why the Browns are the laughingstock of the NFL. Way to get behind your HC Mister Berry.

j/c:

I know, I know........what is he supposed to say? LOL But when a negative comment is made, it means the world.

Fire Stefanski, hire Sean Payton. Dream big Cleveland!

No way in the world would I want to give up multiple draft picks for a coach. Remember the Grudin and Holmgrem deals that included 1st and 2nd round picks.

Agreed.

Some people must thing a player can only get the 'rust' off during game action. If so, why have practices?

I remember those deals and both Gruden and Holmgren took those the teams that traded for them to the Super Bowl. I thought that was the ultimate goal for us Cleveland Browns fans. Giving up a 1st and a 2nd to get to the Super Bowl would be well worth the investment.

For those of yo wanting KS fired,who do you think will replace him? Stumped,let me tell you.you will get a KS clone.A young inexperienced OC who will make decisions based on analytics and not on football common sense.As long as this org.is ran from San Diego no experienced coach will come here.That is one hell of a good gig if you can get it.Surfs up dude.

j/c...

Berry and Stefanski press conference is live...

I heard Stanfaski say that none of the current defensive coaches will be considered for the DC. The defensive staff isn't all that impressive. More changes on that side of the ball may be coming.

Maybe it will work out like last time and he will go to Dallas and get a SB ring?

I really haven't heard much about that rumor. The rumor I've seen spoken about the most is that Berry has to approve the game plan. But I've seen nothing to actually validate that's the case.

Since you didn't actually state which sport you were talking about I have no idea how it would apply to football. But as for myself I will use track as an example. In track races your competition is the clock. In discuss and shot put it's against the distance. In weight lifting it's against the weights. None of that applies to football. I don't dismiss what you're saying in totality however. You can learn the playbook. You can practice the plays. But there is nothing that simulates game speed or the quickness that you have to process information like playing in actual games. Nothing.

I agree 100. And I think we're all barking up the wrong tree when trying to nail down some imaginary timeline; trying to decide what factor 'rust' has, and pontificate on how quickly he should be able to 'shake it off'.

We've watched sooo many QBs go from hero to zero (and vice versa) the last five years, and at an alarming rate. There's much more to be said for synergy with other personnel and comfortability in a scheme, a scheme that works for that QB. A scheme that can keep a damned defense off-balance and playing on it's heels for more than three plays at a time. We've explored very little of that this year; so arguing about 'return to form' is futile IMO. Especially with other factors that resemble more of a Hollywood production than a football team. And a defense that never seems capable of more than 'keep you in the game'.

I'm going to toss aside all the "doesn't look comfortable, holding the ball too long" discussion and realize there was never going to be enough gel-time this year for that to reach it's resolution.

Watson passes my eye test for someone that can easily return to be a top-tier QB. He throws receivers open, with built in YAC, by throwing accurate balls at the proper velocity. It's one of his biggest strengths that no one ever seems to talk about; top-tier, nothing has changed. He can exploit a defense athletically, with his legs; nothing has changed in that department. He can do either in a broken play, and is very good at buying time until he makes the decision. Scheme and synergy will make that last trait look other-worldly once again, hopefully early next season.

That's what I'm clinging to during this year's #waitingfornextyear

I'm not clinging to anything. He has proven that he was a damned good QB. Now all he has to do is prove he is still a damned good QB. It's like you said.
While I certainly agree that the odds are in favor of him returning to his former ability as a QB, nothing is written in stone.

The hell you're not! You have no choice. We're Browns fans, we lead the league in "clinging". Do it with a sense of pride, slacker!

Your prognosis of Watson in his 6 game skid for the Browns is more optimistic and rosy than mine. I saw some good things and I saw some bad things - and they didn't gradually improve, they were up and down and sideways depending on the week (which is one of the reason's I am concerned). He's definitely got great athleticism and escapability - he's got good pocket feel. He's thrown some really pretty balls. Without the other stuff all gelling and being more consistent - those positives won't be enough. Time will us tell. (more Yoda).

Lol. I almost said "cling, you will" to Pit.

I agree Bone!! Oh, and nice to see you back posting!!!!

j/c:

One thing I really took away from the presser today is just how aligned that Berry and Stefanski are. That's great news for this organization. Having these two vital pieces of he organization on the same page is a real positive.