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It would be futile to try to prove anyone is better -- he's been just about perfect for three years.

Just about perfect...

Yeah? Why don't you go ahead and recite some of Stefanski's clock management blunders. I'll wait.

Interesting reads - guess I'm not the only one disappointed.....

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2022/11/15/3-problems-kevin-stefanski/

https://www.neosportsinsiders.com/its-time-for-the-browns-to-move-on-from-kevin-stefanski/

Still waiting...

Maybe Steve can bail you out with some fancy charts, graphs and hand-made tables.

Lol

steve's articles sounded like anateur hour. Too predictable because he brings Hunt in on the 3rd series? Hell, I thought he "gets too cute?" Let me guess, no other teams have personnel rotation plans?

With the Browns leading 24-17 late in the fourth quarter, running back Nick Chubb scored a 12-yard touchdown to go up 30-17. Had he gone down short of the end zone, the Browns could have run out the clock without giving the ball back to the Jets, ensuring their victory. Instead, the Jets got the ball back, drove for a touchdown of their own, recovered an onside kick, and scored a game-winner. Later, Stefanski said that he should have told his players in the huddle to fall down instead of scoring outside the two-minute warning. The bet from here remains that he did tell them but it just didn’t happen. A historic late-game collapse like this one only happens with multiple failures on multiple fronts.



https://factoryofsadness.co/2023/01...onnel-failures-that-may-doom-his-career/

The Atlanta game, it’s fair to question the late-game play-calling and execution as the Browns got to the Falcons’ 41-yard line with 1:36 left. That was within field goal range, but they chose to pass, leading to a penalty, sack and interception. The run defense and one pass-coverage bust let the Browns down, but it feels like multiple shaky game-management decisions also played a part in the loss. The ball probably should have been in Chubb’s hands on first down at the Atlanta 41 with more than 90 seconds left. Poor play calling and clock management cost the Browns. The game management in Atlanta was especially bad.

Just 3 to start but you get the trend.

1. A game where Nick Chubb didn't do exactly what he did do the year before against Houston... AND stated that it was coached into his brain by Stefanski?
Yeah, that's the big takeaway from the Jets collapse -- clock management!

2. Play calling

3. Play calling

Got anything else? I mean, there are literally 101 other pre-halftime and end of game clock management situations?


"Just 3 to start but you get the trend."


(Funny thing is, I googled too; so I know where you found your 'recollection'... that vid was at the top of the results, as was the far-fetched Jets commentary lmao)

Fate, I don't want to fight dude. Poor play calling at the end of the game is clock management. Stefanski's play calling has been questioned for 3-years now. We can agree to disagree. IMHO, it's just so hypocritical when comparing teams' or being critical about another team, individuals will take unwarranted shots at an opposing HC claiming they deserve to be fired but with the Browns, on a golden pedestal Stefanski has no accountability for the 2 straight years with a losing record with a contending roster and it's always someone else's fault as in another coach or lack of effort by the players that's the issue. However, when those teams [who have better records] fire an OC or DC, it's blasphemy (as with the LAC firing their OC or the rumor that TBB is going to fire their OC). Just so hypocritical IMHO.

"41-yard line with 1:36 left. That was within field goal range"

A 58 yard field goal is not a gimme, even for the best kickers.

I'm not going down the "clock management" rabbit hole other than to comment that throughout the entire year we had instances where we couldn't get a play off on time and had to call a timeout to avoid the delay of game penalty. Clock management? Sure is...by burning a timeout because he couldn't get his Waffle House order in on time.

Look...I want Ski to be successful...that means the Browns are successful. But he's the HC of a team completely void of leadership...a team that is sloppy, undisciplined and soft...that still finds ways to lose instead of win. I'm not going to 'hang my hat' on good/great clock management with the other issues we have that lead to winning football.

That said, I am willing to deflect/direct criticism at Berry as well. Going into this season with the DTs and WRs we had was criminal. We have too many players who simply aren't good.

I'm not railing for Ski to be fired - not yet anyway (as if that means anything). But I have no confidence that he's going to get the team and the W/L record turned around. He's given me plenty of reasons to think that way.

.

never mind

Play clock issues? Do you watch other games?

Yes. I have 9 TVs in my office building where I watch the games with anywhere between 4 - 10 other people. We will have a max of (7) NFL games on at any time - (2) on antennae, (4) on a Direct TV box and (1) on Sunday ticket stream. The "policy" is that all AFC North games take priority. The group decides what other games we will watch - usually based on what players the Fantasy players want to watch and/or which fans are in attendance that day. Fans include those of the: Browns, Bengals, Steelers, Cowboys, Patriots, Dolphins, Broncos, Lions...off the top of my head.

So yes...I DO watch other games...I imagine many more than most people. (It's also a great place for March Madness.)

I forget...what was your point again?

BTW: If I'm supposed to GAS what OTHER Teams do for clock managment / play clock issues, than I'm certainly allowed to GAS about crazy stuff like a W/L record.

So are you too actually claiming he's "just about perfect"?

You see, I think he's pretty good at managing the clock. It's the hyperbole used that I find more than mildly amusing.

Did Stefanski's clock management cost the Browns?

In the latest edition of MPMQB, Mike Florio and Charean Williams revisit Cleveland's final drive against the Chiefs on Sunday and wonder why the offense took so much time while trailing.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/kevin-stefanskis-clock-management-costs-browns-vs-chiefs

Kevin Stefanski, Nick Chubb both take blame for clock blunder that blew game

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-blame-for-clock-blunder-that-blew-game/

Why are Browns struggling with late-game management? Separating myth from reality

https://theathletic.com/3726633/2022/10/25/browns-kevin-stefanski-game-management/

You were "still waiting" because I haven't been on the board since then. So don't pat yourself on the back too hard.

You obviously don't get it. I'm not one who has been or is calling for Stefanski to be fired. I'm also not one of those licking his boots pretending like he's the best thing since sliced bread. The entire "just about perfect" in terms of clock management is laughable. He certainly isn't bad at it nor do I think it's a consistent tendency. But he has his share of mistakes handling the clock just like most every HC in the NFL has.

And BTW- You're welcome.

See, it's like I said in an earlier post. Posters are either all in claiming Stefanski is the best thing going or it's those claiming he sucks. There is no room for middle ground. And when you try to present some middle ground both sides end up butt hurt. This time it just happened to be "The Ski Is God" fan club.

Thanks for Googling that for me. I'd copy and paste my post to Steve, who (ironically) came up with the same links, but it's not worth it.

I stick by my assertion... nearly perfect.


I'm in the "Ski Is God" fan club??

So you love articles from the internet that support what you promote but when someone posts articles that go against your preconceived notions it "Thanks for googling that"? Typical. Proof means nothing to you. I'm all for you sticking your assertion too.

Can you belong to the "Ski is God" fan club and the "Fabulous Baker Boys" at the same time? I would think the bylaws don't mesh at times

That's good stuff.

Only if you were in the "Fire Woods" camp and have a Depo poster on your wall.

Now you're starting to get it. It seems some have no problem with labels going in one direction but get their panties in a wad when they are sent in the other direction.

It is good stuff. Once again nothing to refute the articles. Only deflection.

My point is that you are talking out your ass again.

I already refuted the exact same articles in my response to Steve. You guys had near-carbon-copy posts. I'm not typing the same for you -- you're not that special. Nevermind, I'll do it for you -- you are special. In fact, you're sooo special, I'll even elaborate.

Blaming clock management on the Jets loss is like blaming gravity for a plane crash. Just. plain. stupid. A game where Nick Chubb didn't do exactly what he did do the year before against Houston... and at that time stated that it was coached into his brain by Stefanski. You want that to be a Stefanski clock management issue??

KC: A game where a talking head complains that Stefanski wasted too much clock before the punt. Even though the defense let us down and gave up two first downs to Chad Freaking Henne (including his infamous 13 yard run). So, the alternative was going for it... 4th and 9 from our own 32... at which point the whole world would be screaming... "Mahomes is out, your defense has played well, punt the ball and let them do their job". It's fun to criticize using the hindsight game.

The other option was not wasting so much clock when your drive started at 8:00... Florio is saying we should have played fast to give themselves more chances against Henne? Freddie Kitchens much?? "Shoot, I wanted to score again". How does that add up when Henne got two first downs? If we would have been playing "fast" Henne would have been kneeling three times instead of only one, that's the only difference. Doesn't really add up, does it? When you can't even use hindsight to make a valid point -- you have a real problem. Nice try Florio.

And BTW, go ahead and post your bullet points from that last article... I got bored when everything pointed to "myth". Are you seeing something I'm not?


Got anything else? I mean, there are literally 102 other pre-halftime and end of game clock management situations?

I'm never surprised when certain posters wish to deny things and blame others. You do understand that Stefanski actually admitted blame in the Chubb incident of which you are trying to exonerate him, correct? I see you and Stefanski disagree on that one. I know it upsets you that I posted his admission.

And you also seem to fail to understand that I stated plainly I think he's good at clock management. It's when people post "nearly perfect" that it becomes laughable. You asked for examples and I provided them. You don't like them, made excuses for them and disagree with them. So be it.

Just wondering. Are you really blaming that loss on Stefanski and maybe Chubb because he did not go down in-bounds?

I'm agreeing with the statement Stefanski made. That he too was partially responsible. I have no reason to think the man was lying.

...other than the fact that he notoriously blames himself for everything. As all good coaches do (I know that's a rarity around here).

The Jets game... a game where a team scores two TDs in less than a minute, a game with one of the biggest blown coverage gaffs Ive ever seen, an improbable onside kick; a complete meltdown defensively. With all that you want to blame a RB 'accidentally' scoring a TD and then blame the coach for that and point to clock management??

That's some Twilight Zone stuff right there. And the sad irony (although very humorous) is that you Steve don't realize that this far-fetched, other-worldly conspiracy theory really only serves to prove my point.

Thank you.

I said at the time that if we were nit-picking, we could attach some blame to Stefanski for not making sure Chubb went down before the goal line. And I am placing zero blame on Chubb, even though he blamed himself. However, as you pointed out, there is no way we should have lost that lead. It was freak circumstances. I think it was actually a positive that both Stefanski and Chubb blamed themselves. Other coaches and players would have blamed someone else, much like Staley did the other night. Hell, even Harbaugh talked about Huntley was supposed to go low. Never a word how he let the clock wind down and took a timeout home w/him.

Ah...the personal attacks when you get punked for being an ass...classic.

j/c:

Interesting, other than Staley, was there a worse HC in the league this year than Bowles?

Are things unraveling in Baltimore?

Was just thinking about that. I wonder which prospects are like "I'm looking for a team with an identity crisis and wonders if their injured QB wants to play there, preferably one where I will shoulder all of the blame every time they lose."

I also wonder if the Ravens are thinking of trading Lamar and will need a new OC that has an offense that will be more pass friendly?

I think that is looking very likely. Sunday night's game with the Bengals showed them they can win with a QB that just doesn't beat them. Huntley was the reason they lost Sunday night and against a very good offense on the road. I am sure they are saying right now we just need a QB that can complement the run game and not turn the ball over. Possibly Jimmy G?