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I did not try to indicate that Chubb has limitations. He has been and is a very good RB being used as a checkdown and screen pass catcher. What I'm saying though is if the Browns are planning to expand the passing game as reported, then Chubb will most likely be required to triple or quadruple the number of catches he has had in the past. There won't be as many running plays to showcase his talent and the passing game will not consist of just checkdowns and screen passes to the RB. Being a one cut downhill runner is not conducive to being a 3-down dual threat RB where he'll often be lined up in the slot and be expected to run WR routes and get separation. Chubb hasn't shown that ability consistently if ever on the field of play. As BF stated, Chubb is one of the best pure running backs in the NFL. Surely you can agree that he has not displayed the ability to be a 3-down dual threat back as of yet so that is going to be a question mark going forward if the Browns actually change the focus of the offense.

Surely you understand Chubb has not had the opportunity to show what you ask of him. Right?

Just another morsel for thought. Whenever the Browns have had to get into their passing mode type game, Chubb has been a none factor. I believe you need look no further than the final game against PIT. Chubb only carried the ball 12 times in that game while Watson was throwing 35 times. The Browns were in pure pass mode, but Chubb was standing on the sidelines for what seemed to be the majority of the game. If the skill was there for a 3-down dual threat back, wouldn't you think the offensive genius Stefanski would have had him on the field? It wasn't only the PIT game either where that happened this year. Watching from afar, it makes me think that Stefanski doesn't believe Chubb has that dual threat skill set.

Of course, I do - thus the reason for the question mark at the position going forward. That doesn't mean he can't do it, but it also doesn't mean he can just because someone thinks so - thus the question mark at the position. That's all I've been trying to say - nothing negative about Chubb, just a question if he can actually play the 3-down dual threat RB position. At this time, no one knows that answer.

A none factor?? Chubb had 4 catches for 45 yards and a TD!

I think what most people are saying is... Why? What, going forward, necessitates Chubb being a dual threat RB? I understand it's just banter, but I don't think the Browns will spend much time concentrating on making Chubb into something he's not, nor needs to be.

Chubb is 2nd in the league with over 1500 rushing yards.
He's 1st in the league in runs over 10 yards.
He's 1st in the league in runs over 20 yards.
He's tied for 2nd in runs over 30 yards.
He's 4th in the league in breaking tackles.
He's among the all-time greats in average per carry over his career.

Why are we trying to make him something he's not when "what he is" is one of the best backs in the league? Chubb is a weapon, I'm sure we will always try to get the ball in his hands in the passing game. I'm also very sure we have no plans in trying to make him McCaffrey or Ekeler.

It's an interesting conversation to say the least. I'm not the one who said that the offense would be much different next year nor the meeting between Stefanski and Watson about the direction of the offense. It appears to be common knowledge that the Browns are going to be more pass oriented. If that's true and Chubb is going to be a center piece of the offense, him becoming more like an Ekeler or McCaffrey is much more likely the plan than continuing to use Chubb in the same fashion.

I am going to reiterate that there really are not any negatives here. Chubb will have a role and he will continue to produce. His football life will hopefully be extended. Third down backs who can catch and pass protect are common.

Good luck getting that idea to fly in Cleveland.

Oh they will get a WR, only after they get everything else, 3 times over, First.

J/C here. How can we expect the offense to evolve when a third of the fans in the building are rooting against our QB? I have nothing against DW and he’s paid his due. And I haven’t attended a game. Just wondering how this evolves when our own fans are down on him.

I think you make an interesting point, but I wouldn't use some butt-hurt posters on this board as a barometer of how most Browns fans feel. There will be some folks who abandon the team and that is their right. However, I think we will be selling out games again next year and most of us will be rooting for the team to win.

Agree with Vers. This building and the stadium are two very different places. You may see people voicing their opinion outside, but most of them won't buy tickets to take their lumps on the inside.

I tend to agree with you. Some value winning over anything and everything else. It draws people like moths to a flame. Many are convinced that watson will automatically bring that to the Browns. I can't see people paying for the ticket's, the parking and fighting all the traffic to come and see a team they don't support. And just to clarify, he said a third of the fans, not most. Those are two different things. And I doubt it's even a third.

watson coming to the Browns will draw in more of those bandwagon fans that think this is a sure fire winner than it will lose long time fans who have supported this team through thick and thin. Much like the typical Bengals fan. They're with you when you're winning and no shows when you're losing. I'm pretty sure there will be a net gain in fan support and the analytic staff studied that in detail before making the watson deal. Billion dollar corporations don't do things willy nilly.

I sure as hell don't value winning over anything else in a game I have no control over. I hated to lose when I played and later as a coach. However, I had an influence on the outcome. It cracks me up how miserable some people are after we lose. I won't let the outcome of a sporting event that I am not involved in to dictate my mood. I get upset at times during the game and frustrated afterwards, but that doesn't last. I concentrate on what I can control. The things in my life. I watch sports for entertainment purposes. It's not life and death for me.

Like I said I haven’t been to a game so I don’t know what the reaction to Watson was this year from the fans. May have had an impact ion his performance this year. Hoping it doesn’t carry over to next year.

I agree. The minority is the vocal majority. They tend to yell and scream their message. Most everybody has that simpleton relative who feels the need to be the loudest in the room because few otherwise listen to them.

I do not believe the fans are rooting against the QB. A small minority possibly, but overall the fans want to see a winning product.

What fans do not want, is to watch their favorite team struggle because we overpaid a QB. Possibly grossly overpaid. On top of the price tag for said QB the team also loses 3-1st round draft picks. Seriously...... a 1st round DT or 6 games of a very rusty DW? It is also not so much about the 11 games suspension as it is the fact that they made the deal without any idea what the punishment would be. It seemed as if the Browns bailed out the Texans.

There is no doubt DW is a talent. Very well could be the best QB since '99 (low bar). But he has to be better than a talent when you come with this price tag!!!!!

With the price tag & draft compensation DW has to be at top 5 QB. He was not close in his 6 game preview.
Mahomes, Burrow, & Allen all are better. PERIOD!!!!!!!
Next teir....... Hurts, Herbert, Lawrence, Rogers Hopefully DW returns to form and lands in this group.
?????? Brady, Stafford, Wilson, Smith, Jackson, Purdy, Tua, Murray, Cousins. DW didn't play well enough to be at this level last year. Nor did Murray or Wilson.
Sub Par- Everyone else.

Winning will silence the critics. But anything less than a SB appearance is a failure for this QB and FO.

Those of you that steadfastly believe he will be better than he ever was, are entitled to your opinion. But when DW struggles, his price tag is going to cause resentment for the deal that was made. Market setters rarely live up to the price tag.

The minimum I expect is at least one playoff win. If hr does that, then we can expect the SB.

Obviously I don't expect a SB next year. But a playoff win would be huge in getting the coach and FO off the hot seat.

I do have high expectations for the Browns 2023 season...because I see nothing standing in the way as a major obstacle.

The Browns have the same chances as every other NFL team and I'm confident that any perceived weaknesses will be addressed.

It will be up to the franchise to rise to the occasion and do all they can to support the team.

Why not the Browns winning it all in 2023..?

IMO, the time is right !

I agree. I expect the team to win it all.

I also know that expectations aren't always met.

I have long said that anything less than a Superbowl win is a failed season. Every team should have that expectation going in.

When I grow up I wanna be Nick Chubb.

Somehow you missed the entire objective of my post. I wasn't speaking about you. I thought that was obvious but it appears not.

I think if you would bother to look at my post again you will see that it referred to drawing in fair weather fans that would never show up to a game unless they felt sure the Browns would win. They'll showe up for the name watson because they think he is the magic dust that will change everything. That they will attract more of those type of fans than they will lose of the fans that have stuck with them through thick and thin.

You as myself and many others have been here through thick and thin. And much like yourself I have gotten upset while watching games but I don't carry it around for long. I actually come here on Monday mornings after a game and read the game day threads for laughs.

Sorry for any confusion.

I respectfully disagree w/the take about what needs to happen w/Watson. In fact, I give the Browns major props for making the move. The AFC is loaded w/young, very good--to elite QBs. There was no way we were going to win big w/Baker. And keeping him would have meant giving him a new contract. Replacing him w/Jimmy G would not get it done. As much as I like the guy, Jacoby is not that guy. Nor Cousins. Nor any of the other guys that were available.

The Browns might not win squat w/Watson at QB. But, he gives them a chance when we had zero chance w/out him. We were not going to be able to trade for Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, etc.

Having Baker Mayfield as your starting QB really limits
What you can execute and limits your playbook
KS had has alot of ideas for his playbook but knew
He could scheme and diagram only so much
With Mayfield. It's like KS always had to call the perfect
Play with Mayfield
With Watson KS can really expand his playbook and
He knows Watson can take a play that the defense
Defenses well and still go off script make positive yards

How much gas do y'all think Chubb has in the tank? How many more highly productive seasons does Chubb have in him? I think he will be playing at this level for another 3 years or so. Much more than that at this level would surprise the hell out of me. Of course he will be solid after that, but not elite.

I don't know. It's just pure guessing. Some backs have a slow decline while others seem to fall off the cliff in a hurry. Nick might average 3 yards a carry or blow out his knee next year.

You just never know. Enjoy it while it lasts, and be ready to move on.

Regarding Chubb: I think we will move on from him at some point due to his contract. Either when it expires or if it increases dramatically in a couple of years. I don't know anything about his contract, but I think that the money will be the determining factor. A lot of people will be really irate. A lot of us will be sad and disappointed. I don't know of anyone who doesn't love the guy.

Here is a link to Chubb's contract.

I know next to nothing about this side of football, but it looks like he will be w/us in 2023. There's a potential out in 2024 and I don't think there is any way he makes it into the 2025 season.


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/nick-chubb-25134/#:~:text=Nick%20Chubb%20signed%20a%203,dead%20cap%20value%20of%20%2410%2C860%2C000.

Looking at the FA market, I suspect the Browns will do something similar to this:

--Sign one of the better FA DTs. Maybe a lower level FA DT and/or draft a DT or two.

--Use the draft to get another WR. Maybe two.

--Add one FA DE. Someone like Omenihu from SF. I think they like Alex Wright, who showed some signs as a rookie. There will almost certainly be a rotation.

--I don't know what they will do about a FS. Hard to come by because they are rare. And they are expensive. Not sure how Schwartz feels about the position.

--Some people like our LBers. I don't. I think guys like Deion Jones and the street guys played better than our starters. Browns might not want to admit they made mistakes at that position.

I know I have talked about him in what some might consider less than glowing terms. It's not that I don't like the guy. I love that he plays for us.

The reality is the O is changing and he might not be the ideal fit as we move forward, and as you point out, how much can we realistically expect to pay a aging back?

Good backs enter the league every year.

I agree w/most of what you are saying other than the "fit" part. He can fit in our offense. The ZBS is still going to intact.

I agree that he can fit. I just don't think he will be the best fit with the QB working out of the gun and running RPO.

I actually think that the Browns will be running more plays out of the Pistol formation. It's combination of the shotgun and lining up under center. Like the Shotgun formation, the QB is a few yards back from the LOS. Unlike the Shotgun where the RB is lined up beside the QB, the RB in the Pistol is lined up a few yards behind the QB. I might look for it later, but Jake Burns wrote an article about it back when we first traded for Watson. The Ravens run a lot of Pistol, and their RBs found success in it. A cool thing about the Pistol is that you can run WR packages like 10 and 11. 10 is Empty and 11 is w/one RB. You can also run "heavy" packages like 12, 21, and 22 personnel.

Edit: Not feeling well. Mistakenly put RB lining up behind Center rather than QB.

If you look at the RBs in the playoffs , the majority of
Them can spilt out as WRs all over.
McKinnon scored 9 TDs on pass catches
Mixon and McCafferty are dual threats
Tony Pollard is exceptional catching out of the backfield
Nick Chubb is not a recieving threat.
The role of the RB is changing in the NFL
That's why Chubb may not fit this offense anymore
If KS wants a more complete RB.
Chubb is the best downhill runner in the game
But how many NFL teams can say they are
A Nick Chubb away from being a playoff team ?
Most NFL teams are set at RB now.
Chubb may not be as easy to move as some people might
Think.

I have never seen you say one positive thing about the Browns. McKinnon is a 3rd down back. He is NOT their starter. Mixon and Chubb are similar backs. Things are not nearly as gloomy as you portray them. I'll bet you that Chubb is our RB #1 next year. Let me know.