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There’s no doubt about it .. watching the Eagles/Chiefs front makes us seem at such a disadvantage. Take away Garrett and we have the worst DL in the league

j/c:

My comment from the "Number One Need" thread:

Especially since it seems that Kelce is always wide open in the middle. I don't know how that is possible. A couple times he can get loose, but it just seems like at just the perfect moment, when Patrick needs him most, there is Travis, all alone in the middle with no one within 5-10 yards of him.

On the other hand, it seems we are lucky every 3 or 4 games to see someone that wide open.

I will add one caveat since you mentioned the pressures and sacks applied by KC against the Bengals. I do believe that the Bengals OL being beat to hell with injuries going into this game probably helped attribute to that.

I'm also not quite in agreement with this part of your post. "If you have a front four of all pro talent and can have a relentless pass rush. You can do lots of damage." Of course that is true but that's not what is needed. You simply need enough good players on both the outside and inside of your DL to occupy enough bodies to free up above average players to get to the QB. While the idea of having all of them be "all pro" sounds great in theory, as matter of practicality I don't think that's what you're seeing on teams like KC. Philly or San Fran.

And that's true. You can find talent that fills those roles in the mid rounds and even later rounds. But as history dictates the later the round the less likely you are to find those. That's why Tom Brady and Josh Purdy are once in a generation finds. As the rounds progress the less complete those players are. The more questions that surround those players abilities to step up at the next level. It gets to a point that it's more like throwing darts blindfolded than a skill.

I’d go as far as to say we need 3 DTs and 2 DEs … I think everyone besides Garrett sucks

Bengals DT's DJ Reader was a 5th round pick, BJ Hill a 3rd round pick from the Giants that they cut. Hubbard was a 3rd round pick and Ossia that committed the crucial penalty was a 3rd round pick. Hendrickson was a huge free agent signing they made. The bottom line is draft the guys you need and develop them.

Last year the Browns drafted 3 Dlineman Alex Wright, Isaiah Thomas, and Perrion Winfrey. All should be better next year with another year with NFL trainers and offseason. How much do they develop? Garrett is arguably the best DE in the game. I do think they need a couple bigger bodies up front, but I don't think they must break the bank and get high priced free agents. This team just needs a couple run stuffers up the middle to get teams in passing downs so Garrett can be more effective. I do think Clowney's ability in the run game will be missed more than pass rush ability. Can Wright or Thomas add some weight and learn under Schwartz to set the edge? I hope so. But as the Bengals proved you don't need 1st round picks and high priced free agents up and down the line of scrimmage to be effective.

I have thought about it. You have the FO and entire scouting department. That scouting department has a huge payroll and their sole responsibility is to evaluate and find talent in both the draft, the FA market and in UDFA's. That's a lot of resources to dedicate for strictly talent evaluation.

We see teams compete to trade up to take a particular QB in the draft to the point they're willing to pay a kings ransom for the right to pick him. Then that same QB is nothing more than a backup a few years later. That's why over the decades I've come to the conclusion that while it does take great talent evaluators to do that job well, great talent evaluators are very rare and hard to find. Almost as elusive as that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The Bengals didn't draft Reader, Hill, or Hendrickson or develop them. Of the four you listed only Hubbard was a Cincy draft pick. Listing them makes it seems like your argument indirectly says FA is the answer, which I don't think that is what you are insinuating.

However, I think there could be an edge to be had in FA for teams being able to identify players who are underrated/utilized and exploit it for increased talent on the roster and cap management. I don't see any team doing that or at least a source tracking teams' success rate at it based on some sort of modeling structure. THIS practice right here, would be the Moneyball equivalent for the NFL.

That said, Hendrickson fits neither.....he was a hot player heading to FA and they just paid the most for him.

2023 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Interior defensive linemen



By Brad Spielberger
Jan 19, 2023

With the first day of the 2023 NFL calendar now just three months away, it's time for most teams around the league to turn their attention to NFL free agency in a bid to improve their rosters for a new campaign.

Here are the top free agents at interior defensive line, taken from PFF's list of the top 50 players set to enter free agency.



1. DI JAVON HARGRAVE, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
Free agent rank: 4

Hargrave moved from western Pennsylvania over to the East Coast during 2020 free agency and has been a force in Philadelphia, blossoming into one of the elite interior pass-rushers in the NFL over the past few seasons. Since 2020, Hargrave’s 92.2 pass-rush grade trails only Aaron Donald and Chris Jones at the position, with his 18.8% pass-rush win rate also ranking third.

Hargrave will be 30 years old for the 2023 season, but we’ve seen many interior defenders maintain longevity well into their 30s recently. Hargrave is also intriguing, as different responsibilities between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have led to interesting splits as a run defender or pass rusher. His run-defense grades were much better in his first stop, but it seems he can excel at whatever is asked of him, which is good to know for interested teams that likely don’t frequently deploy a five-man front and do a lot of the other exotic things Philadelphia does up front.

2. DI DARON PAYNE, WASHINGTON COMMANDERS
Free agent rank: 11

Payne showed early in his NFL career that he could be a stout run defender from the nose tackle position, with his 86 defensive stops against the run the most in the NFL from 2018-20. And he has now continued to build on his pass-rush arsenal to the point where he’s a problem for interior offensive linemen trying to keep their quarterback upright. Payne has 95 quarterback pressures since the start of 2021, 10th most among interior defenders, with his 11.8% pass-rush win rate over the same span a very respectable figure on the inside.

Payne still needs to put all his tools together for a complete season where he’s a positive factor in both facets, and he’s shown he has the talent to do just that.

3. DI DALVIN TOMLINSON, MINNESOTA VIKINGS
Free agent rank: 15

Tomlinson has been shuffled around on the interior after playing mostly nose tackle with the New York Giants to start his career, with Minnesota lining him up more as a three-technique when playing alongside Michael Pierce (in 2021) or Harrison Phillips. Tomlinson has never missed more than five tackles in a season, and his 83.0 run-defense grade since 2017 is a top-16 mark at the position.

While Tomlinson missed Weeks 9-12 due to injury, he managed to post a career-best 79.1 pass-rush grade and a sixth straight season to start his career grading above 74.0 overall. He’s a better fit as a zero- or one-technique, with his 55 tackles for loss or no gain since 2017 the third-most among interior players and with his pass-rush upside better deployed as an added benefit but not the primary feature.

4. DI DRE'MONT JONES, DENVER BRONCOS
Free agent rank: 20

Jones still has room to round out his game, but the value of an interior pass rusher has never been more apparent than during the 2022 season, and that’s exactly where Jones wins. Since he entered the league in 2019, Jones’ 138 quarterback pressures are tied for the 19th most among interior defenders, with his 14.5% pass-rush win rate ranking 11th best over the span.

Jones set career highs in snaps played, quarterback pressures and stops this season. Players with his skill set don’t hit free agency too often, and teams looking for a 3-4 defensive end will be very interested in bringing him aboard this March.

5. DI ZACH ALLEN, ARIZONA CARDINALS
Free agent rank: 23

Allen has taken advantage of mentorship from future first-ballot Hall of Famer J.J. Watt early in his career, and he took a big leap in 2022. Allen earned his first run-defense grade above 60.0 and first pass-rush grade above 70.0, with a career-best 35 quarterback pressures and 8.3% pressure rate.

Allen could be a big benefactor of the pending market explosion among interior defenders, though he will land in the second or third tier of the position group.

6. DI SHELDON RANKINS, NEW YORK JETS
Free agent rank: 43

Rankins signed a two-year deal with the Jets after the former first-rounder’s rookie contract expired in New Orleans. He had a strong start to the 2022 season before briefly going down with an injury but returned to finish the year on a stout Jets defensive front. Rankins’ 73.1 overall grade is the second-best mark of his career, with his 33 tackles a new high watermark. Rankins is solid both as a run defender and pass rusher but isn't special in either facet. Nevertheless, he’s a solid target this offseason as a cheaper interior defender with the top of the market set to explode to new heights.

7. DI DAVID ONYEMATA, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
Free agent rank: 47

Onyemata started the 2022 season serving a six-game suspension after testing positive for a performance-enhancing substance, and it’s fair to wonder if that had something to do with his 2020-21 season grades both being over 80.0 before earning his 64.0 mark in 2022. Nevertheless, Onyemata continued to be a very effective pass rusher from the interior, racking up 35 quarterback pressures. Over the past three seasons, Onyemata’s 11.4% pressure percentage ranks 11th among interior defenders, and he was still just shy of 10% in 2022. Onyemata turned 30 years old this season but still has some good football left in him.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-interior-defenders

10 Best NFL Free Agent Defensive Linemen in 2023

Larry Rupp
By Larry Rupp
Jan 17, 2023 | Updated: Jan 20, 2023, 12:29 PM EST



Offensive skill players seem to be entering the league with more speed and talent than ever before, which makes rostering athletic defensive lienmen a must. Players that are capable of forcing their way into the backfield on both rushing and passing plays help create a daunting defensive scheme.

Front offices have become aware of that and have started to pay up for the top talent at the position, both in free agency and the NFL Draft. Whether your team is looking for that next star or a rotational option, here's a look at the 10 best free agent defensive linemen available in the 2023 NFL offseason.

10 Best Free Agent Defensive Linemen 2023

1. Javon Hargrave, Philadelphia Eagles
Javon Hargrave has blossomed into one of the best interior defensive linemen right in front of the eyes of Philadelphia fans. Since joining the Eagles in 2020, the 29-year-old ranks third among defensive tackles in both pass-rush grade and pass-rush win rate, according to Pro Football Focus. Hargrave tallied a career-high 11.0 sacks in 2022 and is ready to cash in with a big deal.

2. Daron Payne, Washington Commanders
It's been all about improvement for Daron Payne ever since he was drafted by Washington in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft. He immediately thrived as a run-blocker, but has since tapped into his pass-rushing skills, too. Payne has logged a whopping 91 quarterback pressures in the last two seasons and crushed his previous high of 5.0 sacks with 11.5 this past season. It's clear he is in the prime of his career.

3. Yannick Ngakoue, Indianapolis Colts
Yannick Ngakoue did what he had to do in his lone season with the Indianapolis Colts to line up as one of the top free agents this offseason. The 27-year-old posted 29 tackles (8.0 for loss), 16 quarterback hits and 9.5 sacks while lining up at defensive end as well as outside linebacker at times. Ngakoue's 21 forced fumbles in seven seasons is an insane mark.

4. Dalvin Tomlinson, Minnesota Vikings
The best offenses in the NFL possess a potent rushing attack, which makes Dalvin Tomlinson an intriguing free agent target for teams that have been gashed on the ground. Tomlinson has racked up 55 tackles for loss or no gain during the last six seasons, which ranks as the third-highest mark among interior pass-rushers. He has the ability to fill in running gaps with ease.

5. Zach Allen, Arizona Cardinals
Signing Zach Allen may not qualify as a "splash" addition, but it would be a move that transforms a team's defensive line. Allen has come to life over the last two seasons by racking up 95 tackles (15.0 for loss), 9.5 sacks and 12 pass breakups. He has generated 35 quarterback pressures during that span as well and is still growing into his talents.

6. Brandon Graham, Philadelphia Eagles
It would be surprising to see Brandon Graham play anywhere but Philadelphia considering he has spent the first 13 seasons of his NFL career there. Nevertheless, he should gather a ton of interest as a free agent. The Eagles standout tallied double-digit sacks (11.0) for the first time ever in 2022 and posted the sixth-best pass-rush win rate among edge defenders (22.9%).

7. Sheldon Rankins, New York Jets
Sheldon Rankins played a key role on what was an elite Jets defense this past season. The Louisville product totaled a career-high 43 tackles (4.0 for loss) and finished with the second best Pro Football Focus overall grade of his career (73.1). There's a chance Rankins ends up as a sneaky good addition for a contender.

8. Fletcher Cox, Philadelphia Eagles
It shouldn't be a shock to see three Philadelphia pass-rushers on this list after the team posted a ridiculous 70.0 sacks in 2022. While Fletcher Cox's best days are likely behind him, he remains a player that can bull-rush offensive lineman into their own quarterback with ease. The six-time Pro Bowler racked up 14 QB hits and 7.0 sacks this past season.

9. Justin Houston, Baltimore Ravens
Talk about making the most out an okay situation. Justin Houston signed a one-year deal with the Baltimore Ravens last offseason after failing to secure a multi-year offer. He then went on to log 9.5 sacks, 17 quarterback hits and 1 interceptions at the age of 33. The four-time Pro Bowler isn't done making life tough on opposing QBs just yet.

10. Jadeveon Clowney, Cleveland Browns
Jadeveon Clowney has voiced his criticism for the Browns organization, meaning it is all but certain he won't re-sign with the team for the 2023 season. The former No. 1 overall pick has struggled to stay healthy, but still possesses unique pass-rushing skills that can enhaced under the right coaching staff. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up.


https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/pos...n-hargrave-jadeveon-clowney-01gq0g2nte9r

Zach Allen and Dre'mont Jones are two interior guys I have my eyes on. Rankins also makes sense if he is cost effective.

Thanks for the info. I don't have the time to dig in right now, but at least I know where to find the rundown.

I was getting ready to post the exact same thing until I saw your post. I’d like to get at least one very good DT in free agency.