DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Key to "winning"...talent evaluation..(continued)

2022 FA signings

Luq Barcoo, cornerback, signed away from San Francisco 49ers
Deon Bush, safety, signed away from Chicago Bears
Jermaine Carter, linebacker, signed away from Carolina Panthers
Geron Christian, offensive tackle, signed away from Houston Texans
Corey Coleman, wide receiver, signed after year away from game
Ronald Jones, running back, signed away from Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Elijah Lee, linebacker, signed away from Cleveland Browns
JuJu Smith-Schuster, wide receiver, signed away from Pittsburgh Steelers
Justin Reid, safety – signed away from Houston Texans
Austin Reiter, center, signed away from New Orleans Saints
Marquez Valdes-Scantling, wide receiver, signed away from Green Bay Packers

Since 2015, they have only drafted 9 starters (including Chris Jones and Mahomes) and they have only managed to keep 2 first-round picks since 2015 ...

Mahomes & Clyde Edwards-Helaire (inactive in SB)

Their draft history is terrible at best.


adding to this...

Since 2015, they have only drafted 9 starters (including Chris Jones and Mahomes) and they have only managed to keep 2 first-round picks since 2015 ...

Mahomes & Clyde Edwards-Helaire (inactive in SB)

Their draft history is terrible at best.

2015 draft that are still on the team (0)
0

2016 draft that are still on the team (1)

Chris Jones (starter)

2017 draft that are still on the team (1)
Patrick Mahomes (starter)

2018 draft that are still on the team (1)
Derrick Nnadi (starter)

2019 draft that are still on the team (1 starter, 3 backups)
Mecole Hardman (backup)
Juan Thornhill (starter)
Khalen Saunders (backup)
Nick Allegretti (backup)

2020 draft that are still on the team (2 starters, 2 backups)
Clyde Edwards-Helaire (backup)
Willie Gay Jr. (starter)
Lucas Niang (backup)
L'Jarius Sneed (starter)
Michael Danna (backup)


2021 draft that are still on the team (3 starers 2 backups)
Nick Bolton (starter)
Creed Humphrey (starter)
Noah Gray (backup)
Cornell Powell (backup)
Trey Smith (starter)

Putting Coleman in there is TRUTH- but fluff. He did NOTHING for Chiefs- been total bust from the start.

Oldcold and otheres...just stop with this line of crap that anyone who dares question the Browns organization is "COACH BASHING"...

Show me where I was bashing a coach...

Here are my words from the post in question...

Quote

The Browns ranked 28th according to this listing and their judgement of free agent talent was average at best. The Browns ability to judge draft and free agent talent is an issue that reflects directly on the methods and processes the Browns talent evaluators are using. Hopefully the Browns can prove to be superior at developing their draft talent and improve their ability to judge free agent talent.

If the Browns are going to make the leap into a playoff caliber franchise, they will need to make some improvements in evaluation and development within their management and coaching staff.

Pointing out the successes of those teams that were the best in the NFL in 2022 and comparing their methods and results to the Browns methods and results is nothing more than pointing out areas where the Browns can improve upon with the hope that our Browns might some day, reach the level of a playoff caliber franchise.

Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs wouldn't be in another Super Bowl without an incredible success rate in the NFL Draft


DAN WETZEL
January 30, 2023, 10:13 PM
link

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Patrick Mahomes is in Year 2 of a 10-year, $450 million contract with the Kansas City Chiefs. For the 2022 season, he, alone, gobbled up 17.2% of the team’s salary cap, according to spotrac.com.

Mahomes is the most talented player in the league, so neither the Chiefs, nor any other team if given the chance, would hesitate to allocate so much to a single player. He’s the exception to the rule.

Still, what goes to one player can’t go to all the others, namely the 52 others needed to win games.

It’s why there remains the theory that the winning formula for teams is having a great quarterback on a relatively cheap rookie contract — as Kansas City’s Super Bowl opponent, Philadelphia (Jalen Hurts, $1.6 million cap hit) or AFC championship game rival Cincinnati (Joe Burrow, $9.8 million) enjoy. Then you spend some of that extra cash on multiple important pieces.

And that is probably true.

Well, unless you are the Chiefs and can find an old-school way around this conundrum; namely by absolutely crushing the draft the past three years and stocking the roster with key contributors who come cheap, even if the quarterback doesn’t.

Kansas City has made 22 selections across the past three NFL Drafts. Due to its success during that period, the Chiefs never had a selection above 21st overall (2022). They had no first-rounder in 2021 and picked 32nd in 2020.

Yet general manager Brett Veach and his staff have been on a heater. As much as Mahomes, Travis Kelce, Chris Jones and head coach Andy Reid are getting deserved praise, this was truly an organizational trip to the Super Bowl.

Seventeen of those 22 selections played in the AFC title game, including 10 of whom played at least half the snaps. And they came from all over the draft, from first to the late rounds. There was even undrafted free-agent rookie Jake Cochrane, who got in on 18 special teams snaps.

Additionally, two other draft picks — star running back Clyde Edwards-Helaire and defensive end Joshua Kaindoh — are on injured reserve. One pick — cornerback Thakarius "Bopete" Keyes, a seventh-round pick in 2020, was traded after one season.

Another, wide receiver Cornell Powell, a fifth-round pick in 2021, is on the practice squad, but saw action in three games this season. Rookie Darian Kinnard has seen limited duty this season, but the team sees a future for him as an interior offensive lineman.

It’s fair to say Kansas City has hit on 20 of its past 22 draft selections.

Consider some of the highlights from Sunday's AFC title game win over the Cincinnati Bengals from the 2022 class alone:

Hard-charging running back Isiah Pacheco, who went 251st out of Rutgers, had 85 yards combined rushing and receiving in a game where they were tough to come by.

Defensive end George Karlaftis, the 30th pick from Purdue, had a big sack and added depth to a dominant defensive front.

Cornerback Jaylen Watson, who went 243rd out of Washington State, had an interception for the second consecutive playoff game.

Cornerback Joshua Williams, the 135th selection from Fayetteville State, had his own pick by snagging a brilliant tip by fellow first-year defensive back Bryan Cook, a second-rounder from Cincinnati.

First-round corner Trent McDuffie from Washington had two pass deflections and six tackles while taking 98% of the snaps.

And finally there was receiver, and more important, returner Skyy Moore, a second-rounder from Western Michigan, who caught only three passes for 13 yards, but delivered the massive final-minute, 29-yard punt return to set up K.C.’s game-winning drive

That’s an astounding, and critical, group performance by the rookies. From 2021, linebacker Nick Bolton (four tackles), and offensive linemen Creed Humphries and Trey Smith were on the field for every defensive or offensive snap, respectively.

The Chiefs are, undoubtedly, a top-heavy team. There is Mahomes, the biggest star in the game. And tight end Travis Kelce, a future Hall of Famer. The pass-rushing duo of Chris Jones and Frank Clark combined for seven tackles and 3.5 sacks. Offensive linemen Joe Thuney and Orlando Brown Jr. were high-priced additions the team brought in to protect Mahomes.

Those six alone combine for 53.58%of the Chiefs' salary cap. Comparatively, on the share-the-wealth Eagles, the top 25 players combine for 53.13% of the salary cap.

Next season will be tougher for Kansas City. Brown may leave via free agency, but the remaining five are due to eat up a whopping 63.71% all by themselves.

Yet it might not matter. At least not if Veach and company can continue the hot streak and use their dozen 2023 draft picks to find players to come in and contribute, even in the biggest of games.

Kansas City may be star-powered, but it wouldn’t be in the Super Bowl, let alone potentially winning it, if not for the Chiefs' relatively low-paid young guys stepping up again and again and again.

mac, where would KC be w/out Mahomes? The Super Bowl? Would they even be a playoff team? Would they even have a winning record?

The Chiefs are Nothing Without Patrick Mahomes

by Tanner Kern 2/2/2023 usatsi_19887154-1.jpeg

The Cold, Hard Football Facts have successfully predicted the outcome of NFL games and seasons for over 20 years. When we get to the Super Bowl, numbers can oftentimes go out the window. The Eagles and Chiefs are both good teams, which is why they’re representing their respective conference in the Super Bowl. However, the Cold, Hard Football Facts allow us to tell a different story.


Our numbers show that this game comes down to one matchup: Patrick Mahomes vs Eagles, and we don’t mean Philadelphia’s defense…


We are stating the entire Eagles team.



Four stats have predicted winning at a 60%+ rate this season at Cold, Hard Football Facts. The stats are Real Quarterback Rating, Offensive Passer Rating, Real Passing Yards/Attempt, and Total Team Yards. A quarterback is the primary influencer of all these stats, and Mahomes has played the position exceptionally well this season.



Kansas City ranks first in our four most indicative stats of winning, all thanks to Mahomes. The Chiefs wouldn’t be a true contender if they didn't have a talented quarterback. The team ranked ninth in Defensive Rusher Rating, which is respectable, but they were 27th in Defensive Passer Rating,



The Chiefs' defense is horrendous when it comes to Bendability, which determines how opposing offenses convert yards into points. They rank 22nd in the NFL in this category, and a major reason for this is how they defend quarterbacks. Kansas City is also 24th in Defensive Real Quarterback Rating, which is bad news against a player like Jalen Hurts.



The benefit of betting on the Chiefs is that they’ve been in this position before and have the best gunslinger in the NFL. Other than that, the stats point to Philadelphia heavily.



The Eagles are third in the Quality Stats Power Rankings and have arguably the most complete team in the NFL. Let’s start in the trenches…



Philadelphia is sixth in Offensive Hog Index, but 14th in Defensive Hog Index. The one area where the team can be exploited is in the run game, as we saw against the 49ers last week. Although, the Chiefs win with passing, which is beneficial for Philadelphia.



The Eagles have been tremendous in the secondary all season, ranking third in Defensive Passer Rating and first in Defensive Real Quarterback Rating. They’re also the best in the NFL in Defensive Real Passing Yards/Attempt. Mahomes is good enough to make plays against great competitors, but Philadelphia should be ready to answer the challenge.



On offense, the Eagles are more complete than the Chiefs. They don’t have Mahomes, but Hurts has been solid throughout the year. He is fourth in Real Quarterback Rating, sixth in Offensive Passer Rating, and fourth in Real Passing Yards/Attempt. The team is also second in Total Team Yards, which is the final 60%+ win rate indicator.



The Cold, Hard Football Facts rank Kansas City high because of Mahomes. However, this may be a biased position since the team as a whole isn’t as complete as you’d expect for an AFC Champion. A quarterback can elevate a team, and obviously, the Chiefs have been able to win consistently with their roster, but it will be much tougher on Super Bowl Sunday against a balanced Eagles attack.


https://coldhardfootballfacts.com/free-articles/the-chiefs-are-nothing-without-patrick-mahomes

The Chiefs have played 3 games w/out Mahomes since he took over as the starter in 2018. They are 1 and 2 w/out him.

The Chiefs are 64 and 16 w/Mahomes as a starter.

Mahomes has a big contract, but he spread that contract out over 10 years so the team would be in better financial shape.

Yet, some folks don't even think he is worth mentioning when we talk about why the Chiefs won the Super Bowl.

Seriously, this place is an alternative universe at times.

Pundits are saying that he has already secured a place in the HOF after his short time in the NFL.

Some are ranking him in the top 2-5 as the all-time best qb in NFL history.

Where would the Chiefs be of they couldn't afford to pay Mahomes and other top paid players on their roster?

You know all well as anyone without success in the draft and undervalued contributors attained in free agency on NFL rosters they wouldn't be able to afford to pay their stars. It's a point you yourself used to make. Now you seem to be arguing against it.

It's a combination of both because you can't have one without the other.

Why must you twist words around? I never said that the draft was not important. I never said that evaluating FAs and your own roster was not important. Jesus, who doesn't know those things are important? It's a given!

I quoted mac for you to show you what I has an issue with. We also discussed it on the previous thread that was locked. To not even mention Mahomes when discussing why KC won the Super Bowl is absurd. To only credit the last 3 drafts and developing that talent is blasphemy. Of course, things work together. My issue w/mac's line of thinking is that he is completely ignoring how important Mahomes is to KC.

Now, you can twist my words around yet again so the bickering and arguing can continue and we lose even more posters.

I didn't twist anything. You were quite correct that without Mahomes they wouldn't be where they are. But I would hope you might take a look at this objectively. Just like mac didn't mention Mahomes and only gave credit to the draft, you only mentioned Mahomes and didn't give any credit to the draft. It's hard for you to blame me for twisting words you never posted to begin with.

This was a two way street kind of thing. mac has only been mentioning the draft as the reason for KC's success. You have only been mentioning Mahomes for KC's success.

Thanks for addressing that and clearing things up.

Trust me, there is no confusion about your intentions.

I've already covered that and if you would have read it you would know that this is not the same FO as the current one.