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I don't know about heart or intensity with Droughns, but he's just too damn slow. He can't hit the holes or really when somethings not there manage to get something. He goes as far as the line can get him and nothing else, nothing more. I would like somebody with a little more bounce, some quickness. For that I'm looking at the 2008 draft, which is STACKED.

Just clickin

This is for all the Davis pimps.

The guy is a LT for the Cardinals and even though many of you are talking about moving him to OG he's gonna want to be paid like a LT (and he'll get it too), so that would give us 3 players making LT money, Davis at OG, Shaffer at RT (since many of you Davis pimps also want to move him), and whoever we actually get to play LT. Sorry but that ain't gonna happen.

[color:"red"]"Does anyone else concur with me that we need to look for another RB to go with this line we are going to build? I have no faith in RD anymore as our featured runner. He seems to lack passion, instincts, and heart."

[color:"orange"]Although I'm apt to concur with anything you say <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I most definately concur about your RB opinions.

Turner is probably the best FA on the market...talent and fresh legs. The only problem is he is an RFA R=Restricted. SD can match our offer and assuming they do not offer him the higher tenders if SD does not match we would have to give them our 5th round pick in the 07 draft...a moot point. But if they give him a 1mil$ tender it would cost us our 1st round pick so that we won't even think about it.

As for the draft...pending where we pick. Lynch my favorite could be a good option or Peterson...outside of those two we might as well wait for 08 cause there is a gluttony of RBs who are to come out as Jrs. But after Turner who is a tough one cuase he has that RFA stuck on him...most of the good ones have miles on those bodies and RBs is a tough position to take a beating and wears on the body.

So its pretty much Turner and not much else and thats only if they put the small tender on him so that compensation is a 5th round pick.

I would like for us to go after Leonard Davis...I would be thrilled to have him and then draft Joe Thomas and make Davis our RT. If getting Davis would mean that we bypass Joe Thomas if he is there...then I would wish us to spend our money else where. But I would like Davis just in case we don't get Thomas as in he goes before we pick. And if Thomas is there move Davis to RT....Shaffer would have to transition to OG...if he can't become an excellent OG he gets canned within two years because of his contract.

Davis is still young and has his legs. Some will call him Lazy...like most big men who have been big since they were 10 years old are called. But he would be the best we have had here. And could become a Pro-Bowl RT easily. Stud LT, Stud RT and Stud Center...best way to build an OL - OGs...easiest to get - no bums. Just cause we haven't gotten them in so far don't mean we can't.

So Turner...Leonard Davis. I would prefer going OGs via draft than FA.

The other position I see us pursuing high end in this FA market is CB...I think Baxter no matter how hard he works and noble his effort is - I think he is through or never will be the same.

We need to make up for that loss. Clements or Samuel will come at a high price but would go well with Bodden...let McCutch play his Nickel spot and Holly will become our #4 CB.

So we got Turner only at a low tender
Davis only at OT
then 2 major options at CB

JMHO

While I agree Turner does have the build 5'11 237lbs, to play RB. I just do not think it matters which RB we put back there.

It may make a marginal difference to have turner and not RD, but I cannot see us spending the cash on him when we have not correct our MAIN issues in D-line and O-line.

JMO, but I cringe at the idea of bringing in a FA at an offensive skill position right now.

I agree with that, but like Eo said, next year should be pretty deep with RBs. And if Rutgers doesn't have back to back cinderella seasons, Ray Rice could sink pretty low. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]Please tell me where it is written...THOUGH SHALT ONLY BUILD VIA ONE DIMENSION!
lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm not saying...screw all intentions to upgrade the OL.

As far as the OL we have now...they have established some continuity. Against bad Defenses which means inferior D7s they have the ability to control the LOS. They did against Tampa. There were about 4-5 gaping holes that were there, there, there and by the time RD came to it and crawled through it - the hole closed in. Sure he gained maybe 4-5 yards. But a talented RB like Turner might have turned it into 10+ and more. Granted it probably wouldn't make the difference alone by one RB to give us a running game against the top top defenses. But who says we are going to stand still at upgrading the OL. so we aren't allowed to upgrade at RB??? Sorry I don't understand your reasoning.

JMHO

I totally and completely agree...If ...IFFFFF we get Joe Thomas, and correct at LEAST, one of the guard positions, I would be estatic to get a DRAFTED running back.

I mean say what you will but Stud Running backs can't just be bought...you have to draft them, (or clinton portis) get raped for one in a trade that sends the leagues best CB to a team that can run with GM at Halfback. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

The one time I can think of, that a RB was "let go" or "signed" was Preist Holmes...and yup...he had probably one of the best O-lines of this and last century.


all I am saying is, why bring someone in, who is set up for a disaster..

Our O-line isn't in any shape or form nearly as good as the chargers...so lets go out and sign their backup runningback??

I dont see the logic in that.

No I am not saying don't upgrade at RB, I am just saying, if Phil savage can draft Chester Taylor in the 6th round, and he can be a starting productive HB in the NFL, why would we want to give up a draft pick, and then throw money at someone, who saw spot duty on a team that LOVES to run the ball.

We need to DRAFT, guys like turner in low round, then let him leave to be overpaid for, not the other way around. IMO, of course

When he did see "action" it was in cleanup/slop time at the end of a blowout.

IE... Barry Sanders! no line but with the speed and moves he had ! he made somthing out of nothing!

Yes but he was drafted, and Detroit absolutely refused to let him go anywhere else....so he retired.

I won't disagree great players make everyone else look better, but is Turner a "great"?

I don't think so

[color:"red"]"why would we want to give up a draft pick, and then throw money at someone, who saw spot duty on a team that LOVES to run the ball.
We need to DRAFT, guys like turner in low round, then let him leave to be overpaid for, not the other way around.

[color:"orange"]You mean like Harrison a 5th round pick???

Turner is no longer a 5th round draft pick - he has NFL data...and although enough data to truly evaluate his production in the NFL - not enough use to cause any physical damage. Fresh Legs.

You can't draft proven experience that is still young like that...not in the 5th round. Yeah like Brady it happens. Sure you get a Terrell Davis in the 6th...Taylor also and btw we made an offer on him when he was an RFA and the Ravens matched it.

But for every Taylor there is Echmandu who just don't make it.

Turner is a superstar in waiting...there is enough NFL data on him. The team who just might not match him (I don't know their cap situation) has the best RB in the NFL so as not to go for him...although I think they offer him the 1mil tender and put high compensation on him...but Turner won't sign for more than a year and be a UFA next year...ala Taylor. I'm not suggesting in any terms...get Chris Brown...get Ahman Green...get any high priced over done used up FA. I'm saying specifically Turner and only Turner and specifically if they put a high tender on him.

I'm not saying get any decent FA.

If we win Sunday and fall out of the Joe Thomas sweepstakes I would hope that we strongly look at Lynch from the draft...but not one in the 2/3/4/5th rounds...I want a STUD!!!

JMHO

I think AJ Smith will let the line form to the right, and take the best offer for Turner.

Turner has demonstrated that he is a decent back. Depending on the matching clause, I would anticipate that it would take no less than a 2nd in any trade and sign scenario.

I agree with you here...and I still think that Jerome Harrison hasn't been given the full opportunity to show what he has. I mean they are project, of course they are, that' why they get drafted so low.

But, IIRC(thank you riddler <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), Echman was a Botch pick? Botch had no clue, when draftin running backs...none.

We have a GM, who has the somewhat proven, ability to draft good to great running backs. Jamal Lewis, and Taylor.

Taylor sat around for a few years before he even saw the feild he only had 33 carries his first season and 63 in the next. These guys are not ready for the NFL in the year they are drafted. That doesn't mean Jerome Harrison cannot be our future feature back.

Put Jerome Harrison behind the Ravens O-line and watch him shine, or the Vikings O-line. IMO, it is Harrisons terrible blocking, that keeps him off the feild, and the reason he needs to block well ...yep you guess it, this line is JUNK. Let him just run baby, then we will see what he can do.

You truely cannot judge first year players by their numbers but rather, how they are working, and their drive. Jerome Harrison has a LOT of similaries to CT.

I will, for a second, suppose you are right about turner, how long do you think he would last before he got hurt here? A season, two if he is lucky....I mean Rueben Droughns had his one year...got paid, and has done nothing since.

My point is, these guys that you sign to contracts as free agents just don't seem to keep their "Hunger", they get paid, and that is it.

I could be way off base about Turner...and I will admitt it if I am.

With our line, as it is right now, and even if we do get Jo Thomas, is inept, and we shoudl ride Rueben Droughns till the wheels fall off, or until we get a REAL O-line.

JMHO

In the rules there should be a list of exceptions that just aren't allowed to be used as examples... like Barry Sanders running with no line and Tom Brady being drafted in the 6th round and Larry Bird being a great slow white basketball player..... We need to deal in reality and the reality is that you can't count on these things happening. If they do, great, but you can't build a team expecting them to happen.

Granted, Jerome Harrison needs to gain 15-20 pounds, but 2 years in the NFL, you had better "get cha weight up".

[color:"orange"] j/c

Disclaimer - joining late and didn't read all the posts, I just have a few comments on the topic.

1. Micheal Turner - I think he will be a great pickup. A bowling ball with speed.

2. Leonard Davis - This one I just don't get. Yes he is a big strong talent but it sounds like his work ethic leaves something to be desired, Arizona doesn't seem to want him back and they may have the worst o-line in the NFL. Another thing, much of what I read on him comments that he is more suited for OG than OT. If we sign him as an OG, fine and don't think that should preclude us from drafting Thomas but probably would. Personally I would rather have Thomas and use our FA $$$ to sign someone else like a big strong DT.

3. Speaking of big strong DT's, are there any out there worth targeting? [/color]

j/c
are any of these worth a look <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />





The Washington Times reports that QB Mark Brunell, CB Shawn Springs, DT Cornelius Griffin and DEs Renaldo Wynn and Phillip Daniels are all unlikely to return next season "without a major reduction of their salary cap numbers through contract renegotiation."

As usual, the Redskins are facing a tough salary cap situation. However, coach Joe Gibbs indicated Tuesday that he expects Springs to return, perhaps as a backup or safety. "Shawn has a real future with us," Gibbs said. "He can play a number of spots back there. We're counting on him being part of our future."
Dec. 27 - 9:37 a.m. ET

Source: Washington Times

Just clickin, Nobody likes Chris Perry huh? He's been solid when he has run for Cincy, hasn't been very often but I think he's done well when given the chance to run. Also I think his speed matches Turner. I'm not sure that Cincy would deal him to us or would even deal him at all.. Just curious if anybody would be interested in Perry as I sure he's also a RFA.

j/c
Here is a complete list of potential free agents for next year <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



http://www.theredzone.org/2007/freeagents/

thanks, this is where I saw Chris Perry was a RFA. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Chris Perry might be a good talent, but he has been injured more than he has played.
Do you want another Suggs on the roster. All the POtential in the world, but can't stay on the field.
I think you should ride Droughns and AYO's ( all you others) until this offensive line is not so offensive.
My hope is Joe Thomas is available.
Also the tackle for Texas, can't think of his name right now, looked good.
It is a MUST that this offensive line gets fixed. I really don't care how, kidnap someone, put a hit out on some GM if he doesn't give up the goods, I really don't give a big rats crap. JUST FIX IT.
Nothing good will happen until the OL and DL get fixed.
That has been the problem since the return in '99, and it remains the problem today. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]" I'm saying specifically Turner and only Turner and specifically if they put a high tender on him."

[color:"orange"]Of course I meant "and specifically if they put a low tender on him"

I wouldnt' want to give up our 1st round pick as compensation...no way.

Got to run.

Well, I can see your point here, but the Edge was proven also. And now he looks like William Green. I just never saw anything special out of Turner in any of the San Diego games I saw. He got good runs when there were holes, he got good runs when the D keyed on LT. Ive never seen Turner on his own do much that looked impressive, not saying it hasnt happened. Just that I havent seen it. Although I have watched few full Chargers games. What I have seen is a decent back and coaching staff take full advantage of situatiions. I have to wonder if Turner + Cleveland = James + Cardinals.

For having the worst OL in football the Edge somehow ran for 1,093 yards and 5 tds in 15 games (he gets to play SD this week so he won?t add a bunch of yards to that total). James is a quick back that doesn?t break many tackles but is elusive in space and a great receiver. Good RBs make bad O-lines look better, bad RBs make good O-lines look worse.

Michael Turner averages over 6 yards a carry for his career, he also returns for SD. If he doesn?t get a high tender then we have to throw money his direction. He would start for over ? of the teams in the NFL and only gets into the game when LT is ?tired? or split wide as a WR. GET THIS GUY.

Leonard Davis would be an upgrade at tackle (possibly LT over Shaffer) and most defiantly RT over Tucker. Would Tucker play OG for us? Is he even going to be back next year? The thing is he will be 29 and at 360+ his knees have to feel like a 50 year olds. I?m not one to pickup an older lineman that is over ?playing? weight every year.

Eric Steinbach would be an upgrade at any position on the OL since he is versatile enough to play anywhere. He is just a bit undersized but that hasn?t hurt him so far in his career and he is use to the AFC North style of football. Get him if we can but don?t break the bank for him.

Derrick Dockery is a player I would really like to get into a Browns uniform. He is the mix between Davis and Steinbach. A guy that can move around well for a guy that is 345 lbs. He is the LG for a Redskins team that has a very solid running game year in and year out and he will only be 27 next season. I would rather sign him than Davis or Steinbach, GET THIS GUY.

I would love for us to somehow get Nate Clements but I don?t know if we will be willing to spend the money on him that he will command as a free agent. Maybe if we can restructure Baxter and McCutcheon?s contracts it could be a possibility but even then I?m not sure about it.

We have a bunch of youth in the secondary and with a full off-season I bet Pool could be a very solid starter at CB for us. He is athletic enough he just doesn?t have the technique.

We have to fix our front 7 somehow and it doesn?t look like this is a good FA class to do so. It is going to have to be through the draft and possibly with some guys that are already on the team E. Kelly, Fraser, Harris, and Baba??? It takes DL a couple years to really develop in a 3-4. It wouldn?t shock or anger me one bit if Phil drafted another Wimbley type player this year. Heck who though we would have a player with double digit sacks at the beginning of the year? I really didn?t and if we get another stud opposite Wimbley team are going to have problems in pass protection schemes. Don?t discount OLB in the 1st round.

Bengals have just as much loot as we do in FA next year and I can't imagine Steinbach unhappy in Cincy, but anything can happen. Dockery seems like a good option, but Redskins always find money to resign "happy" players.

Next offseason, we will have to overpay our FA. We haven't been able to sign any decent LBs from NE or Balt using our front office connection. Money talks, but wins talk also.

This next FA period should be used wisely..target holes they cannot fill in the draft..a NT will be nice and a experienced CB.