DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden administration says schools may bar trans athletes from competitive teams

It's worthy of discussion and I am glad most seem in agreement. We need more focus on more areas of agreement.

Yeah, right arch. I'm against banning any guns. I'm against trans athletes competing in women's sports. I'm against parents being forced to have their children being taught CRT. So who is my tribe again?

I'll tell you why people try to put me in a tribe. Because I'm for reasonable gun control laws. So I'm not far right enough. I'm against parents being forced to have their children taught CRT but I'm for it being an elective class where parents can choose whether they want their children to take it or not. I'm not for those who don't want their children taught that course to dictate to other parents that their children can't take such a class. You know, parental rights for everyone not just some people. So I'm not far right enough.

I'm for having people with extensive active shooter training being able to carry guns in schools but not some short term training with no actual experience carrying guns in our schools. But then that doesn't make me far right enough.

I'm too conservative for people like OCD and not conservative enough for people like you and your ilk. For me that's an ideal situation to be in. Extremists make my skin crawl.

So which tribe do I belong to again? Maybe you should try thinking for yourself for a change rather than falling in line with your tribe.

My "ilk", and my "tribe"?

trump brigade?

Biden sports plan angers transgender advocates, opponents

By SEAN MURPHY and HANNAH SCHOENBAUM
April 7, 2023

FILE - Yale's Iszac Henig, a trans man and competitive swimmer, looks up the scoreboard after swimming in a qualifying heat of the 100-yard freestyle at the Ivy League Women's Swimming and Diving Championships at Harvard University, Feb. 19, 2022, in Cambridge, Mass. Schools and colleges across the U.S. would be forbidden from enacting outright bans on transgender athletes under a proposal released Thursday, April 6, 2023, by the Biden administration, but teams could create some limits in certain cases — for example, to ensure fairness. (AP Photo/Mary Schwalm, File)
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A Biden administration proposal to forbid outright bans on transgender athletes sparked outrage from conservative leaders while also angering trans rights activists who note schools could still prevent some athletes from participating on teams that align with their gender identity.

The proposed rule, which still faces a lengthy approval process, establishes that blanket bans, like those that have been approved in at least 20 states, would violate Title IX, the landmark gender-equity legislation enacted in 1972. But schools that receive federal funding could still adopt policies that limit transgender students’ participation, particularly in more competitive high school and college sports.

Under the proposal, it would be much more difficult for schools to ban, for example, a transgender girl in elementary school from playing on a girls basketball team. But it would also leave room for schools to develop policies that prohibit trans athletes from playing on more competitive teams if those policies are designed to ensure fairness or prevent sports-related injuries.


Imara Jones, a trans woman who created “The Anti-Trans Hate Machine” podcast, blasted the proposal, saying President Joe Biden is attempting to “straddle the fence” on a human rights issue ahead of an election year by giving legal recourse to schools that bar some trans athletes from competition.



U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat, also offered pointed criticism, saying in a tweet that the plan was “indefensible and embarrassing.”

Erin Reed, a prominent trans activist and researcher, said the proposal “alarmingly” echoes right-wing talking points, which argue that trans participation could increase injuries and take away scholarship opportunities from female athletes who are cisgender, meaning their gender identity matches the sex they were assigned at birth. She worries school boards and lawmakers will use it to justify bans.

Extensive research is virtually nonexistent when it comes to determining whether adolescent trans girls have a clear athletic advantage over cisgender girls.


“I can’t read this any other way than a betrayal,” Reed said in a tweet. “This entire document is worse than doing nothing.”

The U.S. Department of Education declined to comment Friday on criticisms from trans rights advocates.

Sean Ebony Coleman, founder of the LGBTQ+ center Destination Tomorrow in New York, said policymakers — particularly on a national level — need to rule out any option for trans people to be further ostracized.

“While it hypothetically prevents across-the-board bans, it offers enough gray area for discrete gender policing and demonization to occur, specifically on a local level,” Coleman said.

Still, some transgender athletes welcomed the proposal as an important first step toward protecting trans kids’ access to sports.


“I would love to see protections expanded to include elite and collegiate sports, but this seems like a good start,” said Iszac Henig, a trans man and competitive swimmer at Yale University. “Trans athletes should have the ability to compete on the team of their choice if their athletic skills allow it.”

Some LGBTQ+ organizations, such as the nonprofit GLBTQ Legal Advocates & Defenders, applauded the proposal for allowing schools to adopt what it considers “reasonable policies for inclusion of transgender athletes that take into account differences between sports and across levels of competition.”

Doriane Coleman, a law professor at Duke University, said the proposal allows schools to “still choose to have male and female sports teams” and makes sense compared with the “one-size-fits-all approach” found in some states.

A way that the federal government, states and advocacy groups can avoid “piecemeal litigation” is by making clear “there is a body of evidence to support generalizable sex-specific eligibility standards for each sport at each level of development,” Coleman said.


The proposal was assailed by many Republican leaders who said they were ready to fight the plan in court.

“South Dakota will not allow this to stand,” Gov. Kristi Noem tweeted. “We will lead. We will defend our laws.”

Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall issued a statement suggesting the state might also try to challenge the federal rule. Alabama lawmakers in 2021 approved legislation that bans trans women and girls from participating on female sports team in K-12 schools. It was also one of 20 states that filed a lawsuit in 2021 seeking to halt directives that extend federal sex discrimination protections to LGBTQ+ people.

“I have made myself abundantly clear to the Biden Administration that he will NOT impose his radical policies on Alabama athletes. He will NOT destroy athletic competition for our young women & girls. In Alabama our law protects girls’ sports. Stay tuned!” Marshall said in a statement.


Selina Soule, a former high school track player in Connecticut, who joined others in suing over the state’s policy allowing two transgender girls to compete against them, denounced the proposal.

“I never stood a chance when I competed with them,” she said of trans girls. “Women deserve fair competition.”

The public will have 30 days to comment on the proposal after it is published in the Federal Register. After that, the Education Department will review the comments and decide whether any changes are needed before issuing a final rule.

___

Murphy reported from Oklahoma City, and Schoenbaum reported from Raleigh, N.C. Associated Press writers Carole Feldman in Washington, D.C., Erica Hunzinger in Denver, Kimberly Chandler in Montgomery, Ala., Pat Eaton-Robb in Hartford, Conn., and John Hanna in Topeka, Kan., contributed.

https://apnews.com/article/trans-athletes-biden-title-ix-28c6c78e9cd60a4c334de15bfdd624fe#:~:text=A%20Biden%20administration%20proposal%20to,align%20with%20their%20gender%20identity.

It sounds as though he isn't extreme enough to appease either side. I don't see that as a bad thing.

I think the simple fix could be … yes you can compete, but, any win or school records broken will be stricken from all public school records and no awards given.

So you mean you didn't like being lumped into a tribe? Imagine that. Yet it seems you had no problem doing that same thing to me. And BTW- thanks for actually addressing the post I made made in response to you.

I don't think that would help. That would take away from women in the sports having that thrill of victory when competing against their equals. Having what they have trained and worked so hard to achieve being at least somewhat trivialized on some level. It's like telling them you didn't win but you won. From someone who has competed in sports that sounds like a very hollow victory.

The problem is that women are losing spots on teams, chances for scholarships, and on Olympic teams. This conversation has pretty much focused on swimmers, but transgendered competitors in high school track and field are a really big issue.

I want to be clear. I am not against transgenders competing in sports. I'm more about championing the rights of young women. What wrong w/a transgender competing against men? I also think it would be a good idea if they compete against others like themselves. Obviously, the numbers aren't there to rival high school and collegiate leagues and conferences, but provisions could be made to widen the boundaries and field teams in particular sports.

I just think it's important that we protect women's rights and keep their playing fields [metaphorically] level.

I think we pretty much agree here. I'm for transgender rights but once you put using being transgender to gain an unfair advantage against others under the umbrella of being treated equally that holds no merit. It's about the rights of female athletes being discriminated by the transgender community at that point.

Everyone is entitled to being treated equal. Nobody is entitled to claim in order to treat them equally you have to agree to treat others unequally.

I think this is the should-be litmus test that is largely being ignored in today's society. If any group is smaller, less advantaged, underserved, etc; there is some mad race to grab a torch and carry it for them... ancillary facts be damned. Look at the recent mortgage "penalty". One group is at a disadvantage (bad credit, less credit, etc...), many to most of their own doing, but we'll punish those that aren't to make it "fair".

More like a simple idea, but whatever.

Even simpler... there's a biological women's division... and an open division...

Let me clarify my point. If a trans, (man-women) can compete in a dedicated women’s sport in public schools, so be it. What’s to stop public schools from refusing to recognize the trans victories and records achieved? Maybe the trans would then realize it’s not fair to the women in that sport for a trans to compete with them.

That's the exact same principal I was speaking about. While it's true that our healthcare system creates a situation where millions of Americans face huge bills, even in terms of copays for Americans who have medical insurance, that's not the fault of Americans who do not face that situation. Now I didn't bring that up to spark some healthcare debate, it's simply to show that there are a lot of cases where people's credit gets destroyed through no fault of their own.

But even in such cases it doesn't or wouldn't make it right to punish other Americans to pay a penalty for that.