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why is that the limit of his upside though?!
The kid is 24 years old with 15 starts under his belt. 12 coming this year and he's 8-4.
DA could improve so much, why is he only going to be average? he's so young.
You really think DA's accuracy will improve? He can continue to work on his footwork and release, but don't you think his coach's all his life have been working on this with him?
I just don't see big accuracy improvements in the NFL.... college, yes.... pros, no.... You pretty much get what you've got at the pro level.
IMO... DA will NEVER be accurate... and when the line begins to break down and new receivers (with less quality hands) are brought in... we'll really see DA's accuracy issues.
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Sign DA long term. Give him big money. Lets see how things pan out next year. If he aint the guy trade him. Let Savage make the money work on that contract.  I think lots of teams would give us a #1 for DA next year.
Joe Thomas #73
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Personally, I'm pleased with Derek... the guy's doing great, but, he also has great supporting talent that brings out the best in them as well. It's also that he fits the scheme in Chud's offense well... I think over the Off-season he'll probably get some special training to work on his accuracy. It's not just a hand-eye thing it's also a body movement and mechanics thing as well.
The guy's got a decent skill set as it stands, his mental game clock is spot on, he doesn't give up too many sacks.. he has a lightning fast release. He's tall and has a strong arm... if he improved on the things that he's not so good at (like passes within 5 yards...) he'd be a decent above average QB that could start on most teams.
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Have you ever dreamed of going somewhere or getting something for a really long time only to be somewhat let down when you finally did because the standards you envisioned for the place or thing were so high they were unrealistic??
I think that is what we have here.
Some people have set a standard in their minds pretty much based in fantasy and can't just enjoy the good job DA is doing because they have set unrealistic expectations.
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I think it's the exact opposite with the other side. People have gotten so used to seeing crap, do in large part to a terrible offensive line, that when they see mediocrity they think it's gold.
If this was the case it wouldn't be the first time by far,...the only thing different about this is that the DA supporters are not a group of people that are isolated to this board only.
I believe the CS will make the right decision here.....my gut says keep him but a nice trade would make me happy too.....If we dump DA and BQ busts we'll be the laughing stock of the NFL for years to come.
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CALZONE... Quote:
If we dump DA and BQ busts we'll be the laughing stock of the NFL for years to come.
we WILL be the laughingstock for letting DA go...period...the question is whether Quinn's performance next season will shut up that crowd or make it louder...
remember, we were the laughingstock for the Frye 'yank n trade', too...they WILL laugh until they're given reason not to...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Quote:
CALZONE...
Quote:
If we dump DA and BQ busts we'll be the laughing stock of the NFL for years to come.
we WILL be the laughingstock for letting DA go...period...the question is whether Quinn's performance next season will shut up that crowd or make it louder...
remember, we were the laughingstock for the Frye 'yank n trade', too...they WILL laugh until they're given reason not to...
You are correct in that we will be a laughing stock as soon as we trade him.
But there are two ways we stop being a laughing stock. Quinn plays just as good if not better than DA did this year or DA busts with his new team.
IF DA succeeds and Quinn Fails then yeah we will be a laughing stock for a while.
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um, that's what i said... 
Browns fans are born with it...
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um, that's what i said...
Why didn't you just say that? 
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DA Positives:
1. Arm Strength
2. Gets the Ball out on Time
3. Tall - very few batted balls
DA Negatives:
1. Accuracy
2. Decision Making
3. Athleticism
Is he a great QB? No. Is he a serviceable NFL starter? Unquestionably Yes.
What does that net a team in a league with probably 20-25 NFL serviceable starters? We'll see in the off-season but I'd imagine someone may get desperate and bite on a 1&3 for him.
Would I take that? Yes and run the other way.
Just like the Tim Couch days and the "he led us to the playoffs!" rediculous talk, people overvalue the role the QB plays versus his OL and WR/TE/RBs. Most QBs in the league would play well in this offense right now. I think BQ would play well.
DA will be the backup next year IMO. Do you want a 1&3 or probably the best backup situation in the NFL next year. I give Savage a chance in the draft.
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um, that's what i said...
Don't get all defensive. I agreed with you, but your post makes it sound like us being a laughing stock hinges solely on how Quinn does. I added that it matters how DA does for his new team as well.
of course none of this takes into consideration how the Compensation for DA we receive performs eitherl.
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I would take the 1 and 3 for DA in a minute. That is only because I think we have several holes on the defensive side of the ball that could be filled with those picks. We also have the future sitting on the bench and I don't think there will be a big difference between the offense with DA and the offense with BQ. Of course I'm just speculating but at this point that's all any of us can do.
On the flip side if I were running a team that was in need of a QB (Atlanta or Minnesota for example) I wouldn't hesitate in signing DA and giving up a 1 and 3 for a proven NFL QB. With DA you know what your getting. That is a lot more than anything you can get in the Draft.
The one thing I keep coming back to is that I think DA is an average QB who is the product of the talent around him. That is why I made the comment earlier about wanting just a playoff birth or a Super Bowl. Can DA win a Super Bowl? Absolutely. Hell, Dilfer won one. DA has more talent than Dilfer. My point is more that if we keep DA we are settling for a mediocre QB when we could have greatness sitting on the bench.
True there is no way to know if BQ is great or if he is a bust but great teams get there by taking chances and this is one we have to take if the offer for DA is right.
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One other thing not mentioned is that the national media does not have time to watch all the Browns games. We watch the games and break down what's happening. National media types look at statistics then come up with interesting story angles that get pitched in meetings.
Anderson's stats and the Browns W-L record vs. their perceived record before the season will net a bunch of stories touting DA.
Pro football scouts employed by NFL teams watch every game and every play and will not have the same opinion of DA as national media pundits.
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Agreed. Another thing people fail to mention is that if we tender DA, and does not receive an offer he plays for the Browns in 08 in some capacity for about 2.5M. After that he is a UFA and no compensation. No way do we franchise him. Because I think that BQ will be superior to DA I would love the picks. I love the way he throws a sandwich. 
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I woke up from a coma today -
Saw our record and almost went back down...
Loved Winslow before the "incident" (even named the dog after him...) and immediately had to see and hear what he was up to. He's taking over the league...
Been a Braylon fan... Hoped he grew up and stepped up. My oh My... He is putting up video game type numbers.
Wanted to know about that OL and our franchise LT... So I head to the In--tra--net messageboard boards to hear from gospel of eotab - diam - ballpeen - shep - and the other disciples whose readings I vaule... and there is a CONSENSUS. We're BACK BABY!!!!
I see our QB's stats and they look Borat NICE!!!! I read that our young quarterback has been spectacular at times yet battles prolonged bouts of inconsistency. I read about the late game comebacks and always having a chance yet there are those suspect decisions that makes one scratch their head. From a young quaterback - I think some of this is expected. What's unexpected is the name on the back of that QB's jersey....
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"Name the best QB in a bad situation. Anyone?"
1. Thanks for the Birthday greeting 
2. To answer your question actually believe it or not - Payton Manning.
He lost his LT, they started a rookie...they lost him - Injuries have hit the OL and some of his weapons. Manning is taking a beating this year. Normally he would hardly get touched or sacked. Of course their Defense has played great most of the season to help out. But this might be one of Mannings best work this season - of course if you look at his stats you'd think he sucks or something.
TDs n stats...Take a long look at DA though and see where his problems are. Are they flaws that can easily be reversed? I mean Redman the Insurance guy started one game and had DA type of numbers with the Falcons who have no OL and nowhere near the weapons we have here for DA. What if this QB Redman was starting here. Would he be putting the same Stats up as DA...you know what probably very darn close.
I don't want to "GET RID OF DA" - we got rid of Frye (6th rounder). I want to get excellent compensation for him if its offered.
I see his flaws...I see some improvements as he is working hard at them. But I don't see much room for improvement. Heads up next Summer - BQ will probably win the job straight up. Then we got ourselves a good backup. I'd rather have the great draft picks. I don't see DA as the Franchise QB who can take us to the promise land. He can probably win 1 playoff as he does get streaky good as well as bad. But I don't see him playing consistantly enough to win out on playoffs teams. Maybe in the future we would have a Defense that dominates and he can manage the Offense like McMahon of the Bears or Dilfer of the Ravens.
JMHO - if you want to go by stats strictly...He's better than Kosar, Manning - I've heard it all.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Good to see you around Shaft.....haven't seen you post in a long time. Hope all is well......I guess it is since you just came out of a coma. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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J/C
Getting caught up in DA is all fine and dandy.
You never, ever put one player over the team. Signing DA would do two things.
1. We miss out on one maybe two draft picks.
2. We miss out on two, maybe three free agents with the money it will take to sign him.
So at best we miss out on 3 players we covet.
At worst we miss out on 5 players we covet, one being possibly a first round pick.
DA or 5 players and BQ??
I'll let DA walk, thanks.
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yeah that was a good read - hope to read Shaft some more...Shut your mouth...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The problem with your scenario is you discount what he brings to the team.
Listen up....I value proven players more than I do draft picks. Too many of those guys end up sucking.
We have been in this draft pick mode for too long....I don't covet draft picks. I covet players...and when we have one, we need to take steps to keep them.
Screw the draft picks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
yeah that was a good read - hope to read Shaft some more...Shut your mouth...
Care to explain that?? I don't understand the shut your mouth comment????
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Quote:
yeah that was a good read - hope to read Shaft some more...Shut your mouth...
Care to explain that?? I don't understand the shut your mouth comment????
Shaft....he's a bad mother... 
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Quote:
The problem with your scenario is you discount what he brings to the team.
Listen up....I value proven players more than I do draft picks. Too many of those guys end up sucking.
We have been in this draft pick mode for too long....I don't covet draft picks. I covet players...and when we have one, we need to take steps to keep them.
Screw the draft picks.
Yeah, players not drafted by Phil Savage have sucked.
Screw the Draft picks?
Wow, I've heard it all.
Listen up, teams win championships, not players.
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No kidding. Teams made up of players.
As Shaft said....the only problem you have is the name on the jersey.
If it said Quinn, all would be great.
I am not putting BQ down at all, but there comes a time to forget the egos, and who is right and who is wrong on the stupid message board and just look at what is happening.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I am shocked you have not seen my movies
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It goes beyond DA and BQ. It's an organizational philosphy that one player isn't above the team and no player is worth too much.
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J/C It seems to me that no matter who is the QB, there will be people who like DA and others who do not. The y want to see Quinn. Me for one believe Da is a good Qb, not great but good. You do not need a great QB, when you have a good OL, WR's, and a bulldozer for an RB. But that being said, the players back DA 100% so why can't you bashers. I would rather have 22 good players than 1 great QB and an average OL, WR and RB. Just be happy for what we have, Because remind me if I am wrong, we have not had this in quite awhile 
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I back DA 100%, until the offseason.
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Shaft,, that may have been the best take on this entire situation that I've heard to date. Thank you.. You've made my day!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
You never, ever put one player over the team. Signing DA would do two things.
1. We miss out on one maybe two draft picks.
2. We miss out on two, maybe three free agents with the money it will take to sign him.
So at best we miss out on 3 players we covet.
We've been sitting here as fans since 1999 hoping and praying we could get a QB that wins... we got one, and you completely discount his existence on this planet as being worth anything except what we MAYBE can get for him...
Sorry, but that's just plain wrong man....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
You never, ever put one player over the team. Signing DA would do two things.
1. We miss out on one maybe two draft picks.
2. We miss out on two, maybe three free agents with the money it will take to sign him.
So at best we miss out on 3 players we covet.
We've been sitting here as fans since 1999 hoping and praying we could get a QB that wins... we got one, and you completely discount his existence on this planet as being worth anything except what we MAYBE can get for him...
Sorry, but that's just plain wrong man....
Ah, we have been waiting for a good team too.
Is it wrong to want a better one?
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PEEN... Quote:
the only problem you have is the name on the jersey...If it said Quinn, all would be great.
can't speak for BPG, but NOT ME...
the 'problem' i have is that we've got 2 QBs that need to start...1 has to go, end of 08 season, at the latest...i'd be ok if it were Quinn, provided DA can perform long-term...but since we will only keep 1 long-term (denying this is not living in reality), i'll keep Quinn, b/c the people i trust in terms of talent eval prefer Quinn...on this board and elsewhere...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Thats cool man.
I am getting old, tired, and just don't really have the patience to debate it much more....I am just going to sit back and hope like hell the wait is nearly over.
Go Browns
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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NRTU This whole thing with QBs around here is crazy. Some want to use the fact that the team is winning as a reason to keep Anderson. Some want to use the fact that Anderson is not strong in all phases of the game. The winning thing I understand because in 2002 we had a winning team and I could not understand why we would bench, in 2003 a QB that helped us get to the playoffs. Not to even consider that he had much less talent around him than Anderson has had this year. As far as Anderson not being strong in some parts of his game, I believe we can all see that and it would not be a huge factor if we did not have a QB on the bench that was selected as part of the plan for the future. I guess I am saying Savage had and has a plan and to this point it seems to be coming together. Quinn is and was a part of that plan, and Anderson has turned out to be a bonus. IMO, we stick to the plan (which is designed to win a Super Bowl) and take our bonus and get something out of it!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Quote:
Ah, we have been waiting for a good team too.
Is it wrong to want a better one?
N0, of course not,, but to just leave DA and his value to this team out of the equation isn't right either..
Say you want to improve,,, Cool
Say that you think we can by trading DA,,, Cool
But please, for the sake of wanting to improve, don't downplay the value of a guys contribution.. That's the part of your comment that's just wrong.
DA is real, and he's here.. We don't know what the Draft Picks will be and we don't know if they will be busts..
Having said all that, I really don't care if DA is the starter here or not. I just want the best guy.. If Quinn is that guy,, I'm more that good with that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Screw the draft picks.
So because we've been burned in the past with draft picks, you're willing to essentially keep the team weak in areas that draft picks would address... just to keep depth at a position that you can only play one at a time? Yeah, that makes sense.
Look at Savage's history with first rounders... Braylon, Wimbley, Thomas. I am supremely confident that he will get us another impact player with a first this year. We don't need 2 QBs capable of starting in this league. We NEED a defensive line. We can also use a future RB and another WR. You don't get those without draft picks unless you want to pay out the nose for average veterans.
Just because DA is "proven" to be a decent QB doesn't mean you hang onto him for dear life. The problem a lot of fans have is that they have a backwards perspective. "He's the best QB since the return." "He's better than Frye." "We actually have a decent passing game now, why try for better and risk losing it?" and so on and so on. None of which have the proper perspective of looking forward and trying to build the best TEAM you possibly can.
You say screw the draft picks. I say give me as many draft picks as possible. The more draft picks you have, the more likely you are to end up with an impact player and, in the end, draft picks actually give us hope that our defense will be good enough to compete next year. Keeping a starting caliber QB on the bench doesn't.
We're... we're good?
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You can't be anymore short-sighted than "screw the draft picks". I really have to wonder if all reasoning flies out the window when some people discuss QBs. 
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Remember who you're talking about..
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Quote:
You can't be anymore short-sighted than "screw the draft picks". I really have to wonder if all reasoning flies out the window when some people discuss QBs.
Give it a rest missy.
It isn't being short sighted when you are talking about your starting qb.
Like I said.......draft picks are great, but we have been stuck in that mode for 10 years now....always seeking draft picks.
I have news for you folks....we have draft picks
The best thing we can do is try to keep Anderson and Quinn another year. That way we get a better feel for where we really stand with Quinn and Anderson. The draft picks will still be there in another year.
You also have to consider you don't know who will be available when we draft. Savage has shown he drafts BPA....he is going to address the D for the most part in FA.
So yes, I say it again......screw the draft picks. They only become important if that is the only option left.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
U know Mour for me its really simple ... and I have said this a million times on here .. so to folks like Peenie and the droves of clueless posters we have that will try and spin this into sumptin it ain't ..... PFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT to U .. *L*
What I value in a QB ...
1a. ACCURACY .... DA is VERY INNACURATTE ... and thats not sumptin that changes in NFL QB's ..
1b. BRAINS/DECISION MAKING ... DA has improved slightly .. but no wheres near enough .. and IMO he NEVER WILL ...
Accuracy and Decision making go hand in hand because if u dotn know where to throw it all the accuracy in the world won't help U .. and if your smart as hell but can't get it near where U want to throw it .. well thats not very good either ..
and DA lacks in both these areas .. and its not even QUESTIONABLE ..
so the two most important traits U need in a QB DA is WEL BELWO AVERAGE IN .. I wotn continue as he's all ready failed ..
then add in the FACT we have BQ (rendering the 'look at the rest of the leagues QB's statement IRRELIVENT) and what to do with DA becomes a mute point ..
There it is in a nutshell ...
I'm OUT .. U all have fun with the never ending debate ...
Dima...the above is your "biased" opinion and has been from the day the Browns drafted Quinn...a little context to your claims is good, IMO.
DA is inaccurate...57.2%...a percentage point (1.1) behind Eli Manning and 3 points behind McNabb.
Both Manning and McNabb have years of experience on Anderson in terms of games started.
Eli has 54 starts in his 4 yrs and his completion percentage over his 4 yrs...55.1%....
Hmmm, is Anderson as inaccurate as some would like you to believe?
And Donovan McNabb..115 games and a career completion percentage of 58.5...
Hmmmm, is Anderson as "inaccurate" as "some" would like you to think?
Diam...I just want to see the Browns win football games and to do that, we have to score points...especially with the defense we have.
Dima...BTW, the most important passing stat, imo, "TD passes", Anderson ranks 4 th in the NFL, tied with Roethlisberger, with 26 TDs.
The QB just behind Anderson with 24 TD passes, some guy named Brett Favre.
The QB just ahead of Anderson, with 27 TD passes, another stiff named Peyton Manning.
Hmmm...is accuracy the best stat to judge a QBs performance on?
What I value in a QB is the ability to score, because without points on the board, it's hard to win football games.
Savage may have a tough choice on his hands after the season. Then again, he may keep both Anderson and Quinn...
BUT, no one could criticize Savage if he kept the QB he knows the most about......ANDERSON
Again, Anderson might not be as bad as some would like us to believe...and those who claim others are "clueless"...they may want to look in the mirror when saying "clueless"...jmho...WOOF..GRRR....mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Peen this Bills game will tell Phil a lot..as will the last two games..
It may well be that Anderson is here for another season..
Much depends on how he is evaluated after the season and how he's tendered based on overall performance.
I will say if anyone comes to Phil with a high offer(1st, 2nd and or 3rd's combined somehow) it may be too much to refuse...considering we still have a lot of defensive needs..
But the things DA is deficient in prevent him from reaching his potiential and keeps the Browns offense from truely clicking, and are the things the coaches see BQ is already good at..I know what will happen..
Either he's gone or they both fight it out next year.
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