DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Opinion of DA...Browns fans v. the Media

"Having read you for 5-6 years now, I know you have always felt a player can get better with coaching and training. So....what about DA. As I said to Attack(on this thread I think), we now have some identifiable areas that can be addresses. Will another off season help improve some of those areas?"

I'm not going to get into a lot of the other stuff.

He works hard to improve. I think he can and will improve on his Bombs...right now they are mostly on low arc and gives the WR no opportunity to run under it. And when he does try to throw the nice arced bomb...its highly inaccurate. I think he can practice this and get better.

But almost all the rest has to do with footwork. The kid has size 17's - its like he has flippers on. I'm not quite sure how much of that is coachable.

JMHO

No matter what his prior statements on the subject, I wholeheartedly agree with what he said in the post I quoted.

I realize your take on it, I just also consider the source on certain subjects. That's all.

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It wasn't what they thought...it was facts that they discovered about DA...FACTS pure and simple and they drew it out. But I guess you missed it. So it doesn't exist.

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Anderson has a great O-line, & weapons to throw to. Yeah I know all that.
However, the most pertinent "fact" I care about is 3,200 yards passing, 26 TDs and an 8-4 record as a starter. I'll put more stock in that "fact" than questions about DA's footwork for christ sake. If and when BQ comes in and does the same thing, that'll be great - and if PS chooses to trade DA for picks, I'll support it.
Right now BQ is just a rookie on the bench, while the guy with the bad technique on slo-mo takes us to the playoffs.

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... but thanks for the opinion that Football doesn't count in the subject discussion.

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Who said "Football" doesn't count?
Did I say that? Thought not.
As for who predicted what, and as for all the self-appointed geniuses here... (they'd be the ones who kept telling us they know so much about Football)... I don't really care.

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Daman.......to be fair.....if we are really sure BQ will be the real deal....then almost anything we get for Anderson is worth it.

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The KEY word there is "ALMOST"! I would not take a 6th round pick for Anderson,,, that's giving him away,, I want something good,, 1st and 3rd, or two 1sts or two 2nds and a 4th or something of real value.

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If we tender him low, then we are as sure as we can be about BQ.

If we tender him high and work to keep DA, then we really aren't so sure about BQ.

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I agree with that part way,, I mean, sure it could very well be true, but I don't think it's that cut and dry.

There is a third option if we do everything we need to keep DA and it doesn't mean that BQ isn't the future.. It could be as simple as we want the best of both worlds... and keeping them both would be amazing..

The cost of doing that isn't always measured in contract dollars however.. it's measured in what you give up to keep the status Quo.. In this case, it looks as if the cost is draft picks..

Who's the worse team in Football,,, Miami right,, they are a lock on at this point to get the 1st pick in the draft... they can have thier choice of any QB in the draft, or maybe they package up some stuff for us and go for DA... Who knows. Maybe they give us thier fist pick and we trade down for a lower 1st and some later first day picks,,, Again,, that would be very very interesting to me..

(no, I don't think that has a chance of happening.. it's an EXAMPLE,, nothing more)

Oh no question it matters where the picks come from,, no question about it.. Miamis picks are gonna be way up there,, while some others may not..

So sure,, that makes sense.

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Why do some people freak out when one of those positions just might be the QB?

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Why is expressing an opinion freaking out?

I meant acting like it would be something just devastating to the team, not the opinion part. I never said a word about having an opinion, you are on the wrong track.....again.

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you are on the wrong track.....again.

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So, what else is new!

Think about it Jules,, if someone is adamently against the trade of DA because they think it will be disruptive or even devasting to the team,, aren't they, in a way, expressing an opinion? I think they are, thus my comment!

Smile, it's almost Christmas,, you know what happens then don''t you,,, New years,,, and I'm making a resolution NOT to get into squabbles with people on this board...

No matter how wrong I think they are

I've been smiling all day, I love this time of year. Not even you weenies can bring me down.

U known Daman is one who loves to be able to express his emotions..
Being free to voice ones opinion is paramount to him being here and not feeling restrained....

Is he still ignoring you? You poor thing.

Yes, I'm still. ignoring him,,,,, but as of January 1st,, even Attack gets a reprieve from my wrath

I was just going to give you the Christmas lecture you tried to give me, but I see you'll be turning over a new leaf.

Wrath?
U don't know what wrath really is do U?

Ignoring me only amuses me..keep it up

Yes indeed,,,,

"Who's the worse team in Football,,, Miami right,, they are a lock on at this point to get the 1st pick in the draft... they can have thier choice of any QB in the draft, or maybe they package up some stuff for us and go for DA... Who knows. Maybe they give us thier fist pick and we trade down for a lower 1st and some later first day picks,,, Again,, that would be very very interesting to me..

(no, I don't think that has a chance of happening.. it's an EXAMPLE,, nothing more) "

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I agree that it won't happen. But... I still don't understand the thinking. Why IS it teams think a number one picked QB is going to be better than say a DA or younger Brees ?

Is anyone coming out next year that is sure to be better his first year or second year ? If DA continues to win is it not a better risk than the kid out of college with zero experience ? If you don't already have high pick sitting on the bench your willing to take your chances with, why not give up a high pick for proven talent ? How much will it cost to sign that number one overall and could you get a DA for less ?

I just don't understand teams coveting high picks if they can get PROVEN talent with better overall value... Would you have traded our 3rd round pick last year for Moss instead of picking Wilson?. 90 percent of the viewers here would have thought it was a idiotic decision by Savage and ask to have him run out of town for "wasting" a pick.

The draft is a crapshoot, always was, always will be. It's a way of getting talent and youth. But if there is talent AND youth in Free agency.. I say the high pick in itself is worth giving up.

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agree that it won't happen. But... I still don't understand the thinking. Why IS it teams think a number one picked QB is going to be better than say a DA or younger Brees ?

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Well, not saying that's the reason NOT to do it... it may have nothing to do with who's in the draft or which QB you are talking about..

I was thinking it isn't gonna happen with Miami specifically.. these are the same guys that passed on Quinn to take Ted Ginn Jr... Now I love this Ginn kid but given thier situation last year, I thought they would have been a sure bet to take Quinn.. It's JMO, but I thought it was STUPID of them to pass on Quinn..

So given that, I am betting that don't make the same mistake twice.. Remember, they went hard after Trent Green last off season.. I have no idea what the hell they were thinking... No clue!

I thought that before the major concussion, Green was great... but afterward, I wanted no part of him. (some on here wanted him badly, I'll never understand that...never)

So, it's not that it won't happen because Miami might prefer a 1st round QB over a somewhat experienced, yet raw talent like DA,,, but more because I don't think they are smart enough to go for it...

JMO however.... I'll be glad if they prove me wrong.

hehe, we should see if they'll trade us Ginn and their 2nd round pick for Derek

I think their fan base would be climbing aboard rafts to move (back) to Cuba.

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hehe, we should see if they'll trade us Ginn and their 2nd round pick for Derek

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LOL ... That would be funny wouldn't it.. I think I'd prefer a 1st however

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So,, what your saying is that no matter who the QB was this year, we'd still be 8-5

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I am in agreement here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the same team that got Shellacked by the Squeelers with Charlie Frye at the helm? I feel that DA has earned a chance to improve with more experience. RAC and Opie will have plenty of time in training camp to see if BQ is the better QB, and can beat out DA. Right now, I'm enjoying the ride and giving DA my full support! JMHO Go Brownies!!!

"Stop this "bull" that 3rd year QB Derek Anderson is too set in his ways and can't be taught to improve his footwork and form. If the Packers can find someone to help Favre after playing the game for 15 years, I refuse to buy the claim that Anderson won't improve because he is past the point of breaking bad habits or "uncoachable".



I'm wondering what the heck is he talking about and why did he quote me and then put just clicking????

I explained in detail...in football why and what. You give me some total crapola piece about Bret Favre

What does this have to do with DA having Flippers for feet and maybe not being able to improve his footwork? Its not a mental block...he has physical limitations...he can run well in a straight line.

But what I write and my opinions are "Bull" ya otay.

I can't believe you took the time to write all that to call my FOOTBALL that I know very well in the mechanics of a QB as Bull!...

So you got all that from reading the Teams coaching Bio of the QB coach.

Of course it didn't say anything about all of Favre's INTs having to do with the team Sucking and Favre trying to do too much...lol

"Don't play this game of tearing down our own players in an attempt to justify your agenda."


Liar!

Get off your high horse. And stop bullying people around.

Believe what you want...but don't call my football Bull.

You are carrying this Anti-DA thing too far as some sort of Agenda. Anyone who doesn't think like you and act like you and fan like you. Has an agenda.

Hope you buy a DA jersey

Ya know mac, I don't care who starts. Like you, I just appreciate winning.



Every player has holes in his game. For the QB, if it's that he doesn't have a good long ball, so what. Playcall less long-ball stuff. No big deal.

The problem I have with DA, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with an agenda to start Quinn, is that he seems terribly inaccurate and lacks touch on his short to intermediate throws. You'll live and you'll die by the long ball. But you'll move chains and eat up the clock with the short to intermediate stuff.

And you just can't play call less short to intermediate stuff. That makes it become a big deal.

I don't know how correctable accuracy is. You can practice and improve footwork, (but with size 17 shoes he's never gonna "float like a butterfly"...period). You can practice grip and throwning motion. You can practice and learn to make better decisions with experience and he's done that to a degree in his first season starting.

I'm not saying that DA is a finished product. He's hardly played enough to say that.

But I'm not so sure you can practice and improve accuracy. He's been throwing a football since he was probably 12 years old. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of passes and he just doesn't seem to be able to consistantly hit receivers on shorter routes.

Some series he's gone three and out with two passes; one way behind the receiver, the other at his feet. And those receivers were closer than 10 yards away from him.

It's the kind of stuff I'm sure Savage alluded to when he said...


''He's done an excellent job overall,'' Savage said. ''There have been some wobbly moments, some times when you wonder what's happening here . But at the end of games -- with no timeouts, backs against wall, do-or-die situations -- he's hit the key passes. That's something you can't really coach. Some of it's instinctual and some of it is just his personality. It's a good trait to have.''
Chigago Sun Times


That's actually a pretty glowing account of DA. The kind of observation that would have one wondering what more you could ask for. But it's those times, as Savage says it, "...you wonder what's happening here...", that bother me.

It's those times when we need to manage the clock and move the chains and he can't seem to hit a receiver 7 yards away from him with all the time in the world to throw the ball.

What kind of throws are those for a guy who otherwise has Joe Montana stats? Or better?

Those are throws of a guy who lacks accuracy. If he'd only have done that sort of thing a time or two or three it'd be no big deal. But it seems to be his calling card. Some on here claim that it goes all the way back to his college days. That he is who he is. Not that he's a finished product, but that he lacks accuracy.

Look at the insane catches BE and K2 have made this season. It's not unusual for great receivers to make great catches. But the sheer number of incredible catches made by those two is astounding. It's almost like it's hard to remember if either of them has made many "run of the mill" average catches because so many of them seem to be H.O.F. catches on badly thrown balls.

And there's this...

Determining Anderson's value isn't easy, according to an NFL scout who monitors the quarterback market. The Bears, for instance, might be better off re-signing Rex Grossman rather than trying to ''upgrade''' with Anderson.

''He's probably better than Grossman but there isn't enough there yet to determine that he's a real quality starter,'' the scout said. ''It's kind of like Grossman in September last year. Once teams figure a guy out, they take away what he does best. Then what does he do?
same link above


If a defense takes away his deep throws, as Pittsburgh first did in the second half of the second game, he falters and can't move the chains because he misses the shorter throws.

You can't say that you don't see that. You've been watching football since the calendar years were shown in single digits.

So far, playing perhaps the easiest schedule in the league, he's gotten by as teams of that caliber can't take away his bread and butter for an entire game. But as we face the better teams, as we will on next season's schedule, I'm afraid he will be a liability for this offense.

Not calling for Quinn in this post. Just pointing out a problem DA has that I don't think is easily fixed.

DA may not hit his receivers on every short to intermediate pass, but he has kept plenty of drives going with short-to-intermediate throws. He has gotten the ball to BEasy on several slant routes that have converted 3rd and 4th downs. He's gotten it to JJ and Kellen on short routes as well.

I think that the criticism of his short-to-intermediate throws is way, way, way overblown. Its not nearly what people claim it is.

Maybe people dwell on the negative.

I remember a wheel route to Jason Wright last week that he overthrew by oh about 20 yards. The ball landing behind the bench on a 3rd down play.

My problem is that these easy throws are sometimes so poorly thrown that you can't help but take note.

All the bad though doesn't erase the great slants and skinny posts he throws...or the 5 step deep middle, Cover 2 busting, TE go routes that come out on time and blow past the turned LBs earhole right into K2s hands....but don't throw a crossing route or you'll see Ray Lewis doing a shimmy shake in the endzone on a pick 6.

Fellas....we have a very good situation at 10 other offensive positions. We have a hot and cold guy at the helm.....Defensive Coordinators are going to figure this guy out but........we're 8-5.........with a potential playoff clinching game at home in December.

In the end....I'll take it over the Spergyon Wynn years.

Bottom line, hate him or love him or just don't care one way or the other,, with DA at the helm in the 4th quarter, we always seem to be in a position to win..

and we've won more than we've lost for the first time in quite a few years..

More important than that, this is a team that doesn't need dismantled to get under the cap next season... Not that that has anything to do with DA..

Put it all together, and life for a Browns fan is better than it's been...., I mean really been, in 18 years...

Still, it is pretty hard for me to not scratch my head and laugh when I see all the second guessing and armchair coaching after I look at the standings and the stat sheet.

It makes me wonder if some people want DA to have a poor game just so they can jump on a message board so they can start another "I told you so" post.

Too many sheep buy into this stats are for losers nonsense.

Standings are stats, and I can guarantee you that bad stats are for losers.

j/c What if DA and his agent WANT to wait for free agency? I like how some say "why do you want to trade DA?"
Phil may get stuck w/deciding tender and trade or wait and see. He may not Want to trade, it might be his best chance to get something to help improve the team.
It's not only up to the Browns what happens with DA.
All we can do is trust Savage to do his job. Then the real will begin on here . (jmho)

Stats are not for losers. On this we agree. But to be fair there are some things concerning DA that we do disagree about.

I hesitate to invoke his name here but let's mention it anyway....Tim Couch. As we all know Timmy was not your favorite player. You and many others advocated his trip to the bench, myself included. Doesn't mean we were "haters". It means we thought the Browns could do better.

Fast forward to 2007. In comes a tall QB with a damn fine arm. He can really sling the ball. Looks pretty good most of the time. Might even get us to the playoffs. But shows some tendencies that are giving some fans cause for concern.

What's the difference? A few obvious things. A much better Oline. A receiving corp that probably has two Pro Bowlers in it. And an RB that actually is pretty decent.

In other words the guys around Derek can make up for his deficiencies most of the time. At least against the cupcakes we've played this year.

So is a fan that criticizes DA a "know-nothing"? Nope. Not any more than you and I were back in the TC days. We felt the Browns could do better then. Some feel we can do better now. Time will tell who was right and who was wrong. But in the end does it really matter as long as we get to the SB? I think not.

I'll tack on a little more to what Otto just summed up fairly well.....

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Still, it is pretty hard for me to not scratch my head and laugh when I see all the second guessing and armchair coaching after I look at the standings and the stat sheet.

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We haven't played anyone of note, for the most part.

DA is not a good QB. He is adequate.

Yes, he is inexperienced but as it stands right now he is not a good QB. No one can argue that he is purely based upon a stat sheet....but I can argue all day that he isn't based on his shortcomings that are often displayed.

but shep...I think DA is a good QB though.

I know he has his problems, mostly in accuracy. But, outside of his INT throws, which are almost always bad decisions over bad throws.

Remember the last few years when we had Kelly and Jeff, and Trent and Charlie. These guys threw balls, that if they werent caught by us bounced up in the air, and quite often into other teams hands. DA doesnt do that, if its not caught by our guy, no one catches it.

He rarely sails a ball over someones head into the hands of a safety. Sure he throws the ball through 3 guys and sometimes it hits a safety. But how often do we see opposing D players drop an INT (anymore). Not often.

DA does such a very very good job of throwing the ball where a Cleveland Brown will catch it or no one will catch it. Thats one thing that not as many QBs as you would expect do.

How can you think DA is not a good QB when you see some of the other crap thats playing week after week, like in our past, in Miami, in Minnesota, in Chicago, in KC, in Oakland, in about 16 other cities this year.

We have a guy, and i know im hiding behind these numbers, but whose thrown for over 3000 yards and 25 tds. He's on pace to go over 4000 yards and become the highest TD throwing QB in a single season in the history of the Browns. Thats more in one year than Sipe, Kosar, Testaverde, Graham or anyone. Thats no small feat. 4000 yards is pro bowl numbers.

I cant say that he's bad. I can say he makes mistakes, and is a bit of a chucker, and struggles with accuracy.

But this guy stands in the pocket and delivers lasers all over the field. Yea youre gonna get burned from time to time. but thats the risk you take with a big armed QB gunslinger.

Brett Favre is the same way. I think DA and Brett play so similar its nuts. Theyll take chances they prolly shouldnt, they throw lasers everywhere and take chances. Mechanics arent the best, but no one looks at Brett and says anything is wrong with his game now. The guy has 2 rings and 3 mvps. no one complains or says hes bad now.

Say he's bad, but he's 8-4 this year. He's on pace for Browns records. We're on pace for a Browns record in points. I refuse to think he's bad. Flawed? sure. but not bad. not even mediocre. Average is even a low estimate in my opinion.

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Yes, he is inexperienced but as it stands right now he is not a good QB.

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I think he's a pretty good QB. If you go by wins & points on the board, and all that.
Call me crazy.

Rip Schere has only been in the Nfl for 3 seasons...all with the Browns....Just wondering if a QB coach that has had more Nfl experiance would be able to fine tune him ?

lamp...don't for one moment think I'm not enjoying this season.

And that I don't enjoy seeing the successes that DA is having. I am so so happy on every one of those TD passes.

I don't want to see BQ play this season...and never did. Actually DA is doing what I had described and hoped that Frye would do (thinking he would win the competition) to almost my exact positive imagination. And even then I was thinking not cause I love Frye but I was thinking ahead on what would be best for the Browns. Cause I wanted the best success out of Frye/DA so that we could deal them with a windfall return and keep the other for our longterm backup. BQ was our future franchise QB regardless. Cause both DA n Frye had flaws that made me believe they weren't our franchise QB.

Why? Well from what I saw - but don't believe me. There is a reason why we drafted Quinn. And this sudden emergence of DA isn't all that a surprise to Savage nor RAC. In hindsight I see now that they did see DA's throws and how beautiful they were (at the time I thought they were blowing smoke). I see now why the competition was left open so long (that confused me cause I thought CF was winning hands down) and it was cause they thought DA would win hands down and were waiting for that to happen. DA is not the surprise he is to most of us and definately the nat'l media in regards to RAC n Savage and probably Chud. Cause I remember reading a report that Chud was leaning towards one QB who was able to do more...I thought that was Frye for sure and why I thought he was the starter cause of his mobility and running ability. But now I see it was DA. They knew what they had exactly.

All this deadbate is about - at least for me is speculating what will happen in the off-season. I'm not bashing DA. I don't have an agenda. I'm stating that I strongly think we would deal him IF the offer is tempting enough. And since we aren't in the first round any deal with a 1st rounder involved will be tempting.

It was my best case scenario from the instant we draft BQ...One of the two franchise backup QBs that we had - light it up with the new O, OL, RB n maturation of our 2 big weapons.

But now I have to read and accept claims that DA in his 12 games is already better than Manning, better than Kosar equal to Favre all in the name of stats.

I also made a claim that DA was simply DA and was laughed at...probably not here but by the morons on the other board.

But this misleading of stats has gone too far. We can't get rid of him cause he's going to break the Browns all time TD mark made by Sipe...so obviously he's the best QB we've ever had I don't buy it.

I've seen the throws every single one. I've seen the sick catches every single one. I've seen the clean Uni every single game. I've seen us pick up the blitz almost every single time! I know where DA's assets are and have pointed them out. I know DA can improve and have pointed them out. But I also know DA is upgradeable and have pointed that out. I have seen a major flaw in his footwork laterally and I don't think that will be corrected and I don't state it as a joke but the kid does simply have unusually BIG feet. There are QBs with normal sized feet that never could improve their footwork. If it was never taught him...then I can see maybe he has a shot to improve. But it has been taught to him from his college days and past 3 years.

What I'm trying to say is.
a. I'm not bashing him - I'm describing him as best to my abilities good or bad.
b. I'm enjoying his play and if you can remember this was exactly what I was wishing for from the get go but all my descriptions had Frye as the starter not DA.
c. Even when the season started and DA had some success...I got laughed down on this very board that we would be able to get a first rounder maybe more for DA and this was great.
d. There is not a game that I don't wish DA to throw 5 TDs and get his QB rating for the game to the MAX. Even when he plays bad I'm like wow at least he threw two more TDs. Cause I'm not afraid of the impressionable posters who will tell me I'm crazy if I think we will let DA go. I think this was the master plan of our wildest dreams coming to fruition. And we are not making a mistake.

JMHO - Oh and last but not least...WE ARE WINNING!!! not despite DA. DA is definately part of the winning. One stat that is being ignored...DA's record and stats against teams that will be in the playoffs. And in all those games we did a great job in protecting DA - with all the blitzes. No we didn't lose the game because of DA alone...but in each of those games he had the opportunity to Win It.
When I see great QBs...if they are not pressured they blow out the Playoff opponents - to beat them every analyst will say the same thing...got to get to the QB. Well the Pats, Steelers and Seahawks never got to DA. How did he fare?

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but shep...I think DA is a good QB though.

I know he has his problems, mostly in accuracy.

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Hmmmmm......a QB who has accuracy problems. Hmmmmm...

O I know eotab. I see the throws in the dirt, or behind receivers... I see the great O-line we have, the spectacular catches our guys have made.
If we didn't have a great O-line, would DA be nearly as successful?
Not friggin likely.
But I also see QB guy who makes big plays, has some clutch to his game, throws that 25-yard pass on a line, has decent awareness and a quick release. And I know this gets overlooked a lot... but he's winning.

All is good though. Whatever happens in the of-seaaosn is for the off-season.