DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hopkins

I have no idea why anyone would try to paint this as a one or the other situation. DPJ is still on a cheap rookie deal. Adding Hopkins has nothing to do with keeping DPJ. There's no reason the Browns can't keep both on the roster. Adding Hopkins would be adding talent to the WR room. The common sense move would be to add a WR that's much better than your lower end WR's thus making the unit stronger. You don't accomplish that by adding Hopkins and letting a productive WR on a 7th round rookie deal go.

I understand the conversation that surrounds whether or not Hopkins would be worth the contract he demands. But then to keep things in perspective I think one would also have to consider the output of the cardinals WR unit as a whole. Hopkins only played in 9 games last season and still led the cardinals in receiving yards with 717 yards. If you extrapolate that out over a 17 game season that would be 1354 yards in a season. DPJ by contrast played in 17 and started 14 games in 2022. If you use that same extrapolation by using the math that would have DPJ starting 17 games it adds up to 1018 yards.

Point bring it would make no sense to add Hopkins only to remove DPJ from the roster when you would instead have both.

Like most I don't really see the Browns signing Hopkins. But I have no idea where this thought process comes from that you somehow can't have both or that DPJ couldn't or wouldn't still be available as a long term option should the Browns decide to add Hopkins.

I think Hopkins is holding back. His best shot at leverage is a ‘top’ WR going down in camp. All it takes is a team’s #1 or #2 WR going down with a knee or achilles or whatnot and he becomes more valuable.
My guess is he won’t sign with anyone this off-season.

That's what I'm thinking, at this point.

The Browns position is what convinced me... No way we would flex out what remains of our cap to try to replace DPJ. Simply not a prudent move. But how would we feel if DPJ went down early with an ACL? I know the fanbase would be screaming for Hopkins if still available. Add our name to the list of all potential playoff teams who may suffer a similar fate early in the season.

I still have no idea why the signing of Hopkins would be considered as replacing DPJ. DPJ is young, playing on a cheap rookie deal and producing well. The Browns will have multiple 3 and 4 WR sets.

That would create a situation where Cooper, Moore, Hopkins, and DPJ would all be the top 4 WR's on the roster. DPJ would still be playing on the cheap with tremendous upside. I don't see how claiming Hopkins would be DPJ's replacement makes any sense at all.

I should have been more clear. I'm only saying "replace" because you're basically getting the same exact player.

It's not necessarily a wholesale "replacing him" proposition as much as it is the simple picture of the scenario. DPJ is putting up very similar numbers over the past two years. And basically, in Hopkins' declining years, DPJ is the same receiver. What would Hopkins be doing different in this offense that DPJ can't do? I'm just saying "you've already got that guy".

Adding another WR, especially at any significant price tag, would have to bring more upside to my offense, and probably also be filling a definite weakness. Just my opinion as an armchair GM.

When you make a quote like Hopkins declining years or DPJ equally producing, it would behoove you to research your quote first.

In 2021:
Hopkins played in 10 games with 42 receptions for 572 yards and 8 TD's @ 8.9 yds per target, 57.2 yards per game with a 65.6% catch percentage (missed 6 gms on IR)
DPJ played in 14 games with 34 receptions for 597 yards and 3 TD's @ 10.3 yds per target, 42.6 yards per game with a 58.6% catch percentage
Moore played in 11 games with 43 receptions for 538 yards and 5 TD's @ 7.0 yds per target, 48.9 yards per game with a 55.8% catch percentage

In 2022:
Hopkins played in 9 games with 64 receptions for 717 yards and 3 TD's @ 7.5 yards per target, 79.7 yards per game with a 66.7% catch percentage (6 gms suspended and 2 inactive)
DPJ played in 17 games with 61 receptions for 839 yards and 3 TD's @ 8.7 yards per target, 49.4 yards per game with a 63.5% catch percentage
Moore played in 16 games with 37 receptions for 446 yards and 1 TD @ 6.9 yards per target, 27.9 yards per game with a 56.9% catch percentage

You can add DPJ and Moore's 2022 yards per game together and it doesn't equal the output of Hopkins in 2022. Hopkins also has nearly double the TD output over the last 2 years than either DPJ or Moore. There's no way DPJ is exactly the same player as Hopkins. I have no idea what's going through Berry's mind on this Hopkins thing pro or con, but I do know when people complain about Hopkins losing a step and being old @ 31 after being a 5-time Pro Bowler when Berry signed 2 career backup players in Grant (31) and Goodwin (33). You have to wonder where the thought possess is in that thinking.

Cooper is actually $23,776,000 in 2023 and $23,776,000 in 2024. Those restructures come back to bite when you least expect it.

the cardinals didn't have a 1000 rusher or receiver last year. That's why DHop had so many yards in 9 games.

we will likely have 2 WRs (Coop & DPJ) and a RB Chubb this year.

What would they gain by signing Hopkins?
If it means they'll have to move on from DPJ aND Cooper? Then why did they ac@uire DPJ and Cooper in the first place?
Maybe,
they'd be better off preparing for the season with the 8 decent WR they already have, and not sign another guy, who it's not clear what your team would gain if they Did sign him.

What does the team gain: You get an established All pro WR that would clearly have better odds of being a 1000-yard receiver than Moore and DPJ's potential production. Hopkins would draw immediate extra coverage freeing up Cooper or vice versa. DPJ didn't do that last year and Moore couldn't do that with Garrett Wilson last year. There may be potential but to date, it hasn't been shown on the field. Like it or not, it is what it is until it isn't. Most here call getting Moore a steal, but the Jets would have never let him go if they had any thoughts that getting Rodgers would up his game with Garrett Wilson's talent - they obviously didn't feel that potential was there. Just look at the catch percentage which is clearly better with Hopkins and like it or not, there's a chemistry between Hopkins and Watson that no one on the team currently possesses.

The Browns already have the highest cap spend in the NFL so IMHO, it's win this year or look for a major restructure coming. Playing the uncertain game of potential is very dangerous for Berry and Stefanski considering the spend they've taken on. It'll be very hard to explain weaknesses when you already have the highest cap spend in the NFL. I just don't believe that the Haslam's are going to buy into that after giving Berry and Stefanski a freewheeling spend.

If they pass on Hopkins and Moore & DPJ don't deliver, you can bet on a new FO and HC in 2024. Having a 4 WR set with Cooper, Hopkins, DPJ and Moore would have to rank as one if the best in the NFL - it's win at all costs this year - follow the money!

I think if you're gong to bring up "the same numbers" you have to look at how many games each player started and played in. Hopkins reached those "same numbers" playing in less games. I think any time you bring in another quality WR you are improving your unit. I posted the games each one played in last year and how those numbers would play out over an entire season had each one have started every game. The difference was significant.

Why did Jets trade Moore?
Moore finished 2022 with a disappointing 37 catches for 446 yards and one touchdown in 16 games. His trade request came after the Jets posted a three-game win streak and caused quite the distraction, likely factoring into the decision to deal him this offseason.

The Blowup:
His frustration spilled into practice that week. That Thursday, Moore surprised teammates and coaches by blowing up on LaFleur, telling him to “go f— yourself” and “you suck,” according to multiple people who witnessed the interaction. LaFleur and Saleh ultimately decided to send Moore home to cool off. That night, he requested a trade.

The team was winning at the time - 3-game win streak being 4-2 and he blows up because of targets - what does that mean for the Browns if he isn't targeted to his liking because team wins don't appear to be a factor.

Jets on trading Moore:
https://thejetpress.com/posts/ny-jets-elijah-moore-trade-request-bizarre
Moore hasn't proven anything yet.

So we're just stuck then. Moore is unhappy with his usage. The Jets are unhappy with Moore's decision to make a public trade request. It's hard to believe this situation is going over well in the locker room either.

The most likely short-term outcome will see Moore left as a healthy scratch on Sunday. What the future holds beyond that is hard to say, but it seems unlikely that Moore will be dealt barring some team stepping up with a lucrative offer.

Getting the pick for Rodgers was certainly in play but there's way more to the story (stated above) than just getting trade ammo for Rodgers. Oh, and by the way, those before mentioned QB's that you say Moore had to unfairly endure were good enough to get Garrett Wilson the 2022 AP Offensive Rookie of the Year Honor. They must not have been that bad, so what was the real problem and will the Browns be facing the same situation - time will tell.

I don't disagree with the trade at all but I'm not anointing him as some kind of savior until I see it on the field which to date, he hasn't produced.

That sounds just wonderful.

I guess the players didn't mind his tantrum and him cursing the coaches either.

I know that it happened and I also know that's the type of things Browns fans used to dislike about players. I mean look at the things they said about OBJ and that former QB which were lambasted for far less than that. But admittedly the scenery has changed as of late.

j/c...

I wonder how much Watson is actively trying to lobby for Hopkins and how much is speculation?

If he is, he might want to cool it down a bit. He doesn't need his current receivers to think he thinks of them as chopped liver.

It will be very interesting to see how this works out if the reporting is accurate. Let's not forget what happened the last time Watson didn't get what he wanted. Afterall, that was less than 6-months after signing one of the richest contracts in football and he refused to play because he didn't get what he wanted. Will the Browns not even scheduling an interview with Hopkins set Watson off again?

He is just tossing out the line and trolling.

You don't? I am not the one who posted that Watson wants Hopkins. The last time he said he wanted something and didn't get it he sat out on his team and teammates. I'm not saying Watson will have a reaction or not - who could? What I am saying is that according to reports, Watson wants Hopkins. The Browns have 230M invested in their QB - he has a history of making waves - who knows how far he'd push this thing or if Berry, Stefanski, and Haslam's will buckle and get him anything he wants due to the heavy investment they already have in the team. Like I said earlier, the Browns are sitting on the highest cap spend in the NFL for 2023. Saving 10-15 million and then missing a deep playoff run because you saved that money would be suicide at this point, I believe, but we'll have to wait and see. Oh, just a FYI - I'm not trolling.

It's just something to think about - that's all.

You ask what I would do - I would honor my commitment now and previously.

The issue is he did it before.

Not unlike OBJ, he quit on the Giants and he quit on the Browns. Will he quit on Baltimore too? Who knows but it's a possibility considering his past.

I have no idea what is in Watson's head, but I do know the Texans signed him to a big deal with what should have been minimal risk and committed to him and he didn't honor that deal.

I'm not saying Watson will do anything at all - what I am saying is he did it before making it a possibility again.

I'm not going out of my way for anything, but people would have to be naive not to consider what will happen if and when Watson doesn't get something he wants.

OK...considered, and rejected.

And if one wonders how much of that is speculation, one also has to wonder how much the rest of it is speculation. I've noticed a distinct pattern when it comes to the things MCK reports. If it's something unpopular people claim she has no credibility. We've seen a lot of negative things posted along those lines. When she reports something people like or believe they post it like it's gospel. Strange how that works.

Really? Wasn't it DW that signed a long term extension with the Texans and then refused to honor that contract only six months later? Wasn't it DW who let down all of his teammates by sitting out for an entire season after signing that contract? DW trolled his entire team for an entire season. What kind of individual would ignore that recent history of DW and turn around and blame someone else who doesn't ignore such behavior when considering how far he might go in attempting to bring in a WR that he has such a successful history with?

Whether that is actually what's going on or not is pure speculation. But given DW'a recent history with the Texans, trying to claim there isn't some basis to think this may be what's going on is naive at best. The NFL is a business and with a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract it's DW that holds all the cards. Don't try to fool people into believing otherwise.

Who does this?

Dear Lord man, haven't you been reading the board all these years? It wasn't so long ago everything MKC reported was considered garbage. Now suddenly she has become credible. But then what she was saying back then wasn't popular and what she's saying now is popular.

"People". Namely "the very same people who..."