DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Cleveland Police short more than 200 officers amid rise in violent crime

I think the problem is more along the lines that buying chrome plated band aids won't do anything for herpes, but people think it is a good idea to waste money on them anyways.

Yeah that’s it. Pfft.

...that's kind of my point. Your throw money at the problem "plan" is "Pfft."

I thought you might appreciate the lecture and Malcolm's unique approach. Dude sometimes makes me cheer like the Browns just put one over the goal line; sometimes, he just p's me off- but he always provokes thought. I urge you to read some of his books. "Outliers" was the book that first grabbed me and pulled me in.

The 'entertainment' aspect made total sense to me. As sophisticated as we think ourselves to be, we still develop our culture through the tales we tell ourselves. And what are those tales, but a reflection of who we are at the time of telling?

I think his 'Cardinal Points' framing was convenient and brilliant. It was extremely clever (and imo, juuust a little bit manipulative) that he used the stereotypes associated with those American regions to frame his essay. Talk about profiling...

When he crunched the "LAPD bad apples" numbers, he really made me sit up and take notice. We do get a disproportionate volume of news headlines that feature bad cops behaving badly, because bad news sells... and the daily news is the new cultural tale we tell ourselves in the 24/7 news cycle. "If it bleeds, it leads." That said, I believe the frequency with which police misconduct occurs is probably about the same as it has always been, but with one difference: real-time video, in the form of both cell phone and body cam footage. Most cops do a helluvalotta good every day, but- demographics, yo. There will always be some. And those cops do a disproportionate amount of harm to our society, given their unique place/role.

Folks are probably tired of hearing me talk about My Pops, but I need to drop this short bio about him for context in terms of my world view re: cops/public. Dude started out on 3rd shift foot patrol the year I was born. By the time I'd finished 9th grade, he'd assumed the rank of Inspector: Uniform Division. Not Traffic cops. They had their own Inspector. Pops was Head Crimefighter in our town. Second only to the Chief. Hotline to the Mayor, in times of crisis. Young man walked the streets of a rough little Midwest industrial town at night, with a service revolver and a billy club. You don't get more badass than that.

One day, I dropped into his office unannounced. I was on my way home from school.
"Whatcha workin' on, Dad?"
"Eh, you know- administrative s#. Boss stuff. How was your day? Get another 'F' in something?"
...and we just started talking about- stuff. Dad and his kid, for about 15 minutes.

2 weeks later, 3 tenured cops were fired for cause, for behaving like one of Malcolm's prototypes. We were just finishing dinner when the local news broke the story. I was standing there, holding my dinner dish, staring at the screen when Pops walked past and said:

"Administrative s#."

_______________

So perhaps you can see why these DT talks about cops & public touch a little close to home with me. I've been part of a Blue Family, and I've also been treated to a couple truly harrowing roadside stop incidents. It's complicated. Malcolm's lecture provided a p.o.v. that finally gave me a new way of looking at my past besides the binary of pride... and prejudice.


*EDIT*
I urge all you chat participants to listen to the subject of the conversation that FATE & I are having. It's very, very interesting. I would love to hear what you others think, after hearing it. Find the link in my first response to FATE.

"Dude sometimes makes me cheer like the Browns just put one over the goal line; sometimes, he just p's me off"

I can see that 100%. 😁 That is why I really enjoyed the 'cast. If you want to immediately captivate me, be willing to call bs when you see it even if it doesn't fit your overall point of view. He did that more than a few times.

Yeah bro, math doesn't lie. No matter how much we want to stick our fingers in our ears and ignore it.

L.A. Police -- 8500 officers, 44 "bad apples". Yet an entire force is narrativized over 0.5% of it's force. I have a niece I respect a great deal. Intelligent, down to earth, very compassionate... during all the protests, defund movement, etc, she was completely onboard with eliminating police. I was dumbfounded. But even more so by her comment on social media: "I'm sure there are a few good cops out there". It was one of those things that stopped me dead in my tracks, as I realized these are the thoughts of a large swath of today's youth -- that somewhere out there in the vast wasteland of s--- police, there are a few good ones.

I've already put a digital copy on my waitlist at the library. Bonefish has me reading way too much fiction, I could use a little break. Thanks for turnin' me on.

I agree. You won't be sorry, very good listen...

thanks, Dawg.

To be more accurate, it should read 'Giving away other peoples money", but either way, you are right.

And having no plan and just talking bs is a bigger ..pffft

It's one thing to have that perception. It's another thing to show they're actually teaching children that in school. I've seen no evidence to indicate they are. If they were we would have heard about DeSantis outlawing that too.

The truth is kids pick things up from more than school. It's why I put "teaching" in quotation marks. What "message"/"lesson" are kids likely to take from a "plan" that is no more broadly explained than "Oh, take more taxes and give teachers more money"? That's not a plan, that's an idea so nonspecific as to be essentially useless.

...Exactly. Your "plan" isn't a plan. It seems to be a vague hope that money will magically solve everything.

Since we were discussing the education system I hope you can see how easily I may have interpreted the message as being part of the education system.

Definitely understandable.

More BS from the bull. Bla Bla Bla BS

You could try to actually explain your position, but all you seem to do is spout gobbledygook and cry BS.

So exactly who is it you think is "teaching them" that? As we see in the current social climate much of the attention is also focused on the content and manipulation of the public education system. I would dare to say much or more than it is on the funding. I do understand that some of the attention is focused on funding combined with teacher pay. But I think one looking at this objectively would have to admit that to draw better qualified people to teach, that funding is a part of the solution. Most of the teachers I know are those that have a strong passion for the profession. It's something they feel compelled to do. But that doesn't provide us with enough qualified people to fill all of the positions. And aside from that, how many people are willing to pay the high cost of a college education for a future profession that pays a fraction of what they could make at another profession for about the same educational investment cost? My hope would be that those who enter the teaching field would be smart enough to consider basic principals such as return on investment.

As such it's certainly a part of the conversation. Even before inflation hit hard, the cost of building materials and wages were increasing. In order to build new schools and fund teacher pay certainly the income schools receive must also increase. I know how convenient it is to boil all of that down to "They are taught to raise taxes and throw money at it" but there's a lot more to it than that.

As you and I both agree, the education system as it is packaged and taught also needs overhaul. But that along with money is the solution. I certainly don't see it as a one or the other proposition.

I was referring to P.Spiral's alleged plan.

I agree with you for the most part. On the other hand, He has never expanded on his more money "plan."

I get what you're saying. Which is the reason for my post. It seemed you were open to engaging on the topic about the funding end of things and as you stated, there really hasn't been what one would call a discussion about it brought forward. It seems as though we have managed to have a good back and forth discussion about education so I was simply trying to expand it to the funding aspect.

Probably could have included this in the previous post, but it may be better to have it on its own for getting things on track. (and the thoughts on the topic required more pondering and took longer to coalesce.)

While on one hand I agree on this, there are other kinds of returns besides financial. I wouldn't want someone to get into teaching primarily for the financial returns. (I'm not trying to say that you do.) This ingrained idea that more money is always good influences basically everything in our country. I don't think that's a good thing.

edit: i.e, it's not how much money you have, it is what you do with it that is really important.

I do understand what you're saying but had hoped I addressed that at least in part with this quote from my post...........


And to help qualify my statement, I'm not advocating we raise teacher pay to that of a doctor or high priced attorney. Just more competitive with more sensible college degree pay.

As it stands we have teachers having to work second jobs. We have them paying for students classroom needs and then we have a very serious teacher shortage going on in many places around the country. And obviously it's worse in districts that can't afford to pay their teachers competitively.

So it's not that I expect people to get filthy rich being a teacher. But when you consider how poorly they're paid compared to a lot of degrees, there has to be some leveling of the playing field here. I do agree that a career you're passionate about has its own rewards. But at some point one has to consider their own future and quality of life.

Sometimes it is more about how much money you have than other times. When you have very little, more actually helps give you choices with what you can do with it. When all you can do is pay your bills, after that you're not left with choices. I'm not sure many rational people would want to put themselves in that position after paying such a high cost for a college degree. When a college education was a very reasonable cost that decision might have been much easier to make, but all of that has changed.

I'll give you a prime example of what I'm talking about. My daughter isn't a greedy or superficial person. She actually strongly considered becoming a teacher. She asked my opinion on the matter. Now I've never been one to tell people what they should do in such situations because if you do, if things don't go right, you'll be blamed for that decision. lol

So I simply told her pretty much what I think she should have expected me to tell her. I told her to consider life with her children. how much it would cost to raise them. Look ahead at buying a home and the type of life she wanted. To think about the stress of dealing with on one hand the students, then the faculty, as well as the school board politics. Talk to some teachers she had about those things.

In the end she told me she couldn't see herself being able to make a good living being a teacher. Instead she became a CPA. She makes somewhere between two and three times what a teacher makes. Her husband also has a great income. And even through all of that, they are nowhere what most people would call rich. They do own a nice home and have enough disposable income to make decisions on "what they do with it". I'm not so sure that would be true had she have chosen to be a teacher.

I agree with all that pretty much, I was more getting at that I hope the impact they can make on kids' lives is seen as a big part of the return on investment, perhaps greater than the financial.

For the second part of the post, I was more thinking towards the taxes and more money to the educational system "plan" from earlier. More money to the system sounds "good," but it really depends on how it is spent.

Duh. If we don’t start investing in our future we aren’t any better than a third world country. There are plenty of white papers and solutions written on school funding on the internet showing what has worked and what hasn’t. But as usual we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot and Ignore fixes by constant BS and bickering between political parties. It’s sad really.

Six former Mississippi officers have pleaded guilty to state charges for torturing two Black men

BRANDON, Miss. (AP) — Six white former Mississippi law officers pleaded guilty to state charges on Monday for torturing two Black men in a racist assault. All six had recently admitted their guilt in a connected federal civil rights case.

Prosecutors say some of the officers nicknamed themselves the “Goon Squad” because of their willingness to use excessive force and cover it up, including the attack that ended with a deputy shooting one victim in the mouth.

In January, the officers entered a house without a warrant and handcuffed and assaulted the two men with stun guns, a sex toy and other objects. The officers mocked them with racial slurs throughout a 90-minute torture session, then devised a cover-up that included planting drugs and a gun, leading to false charges that could have sent one victim to prison for years.

Their conspiracy unraveled months later, after one of them told the sheriff he had lied, leading to confessions from the others.

Each one agreed to sentences recommended by state prosecutors ranging from five to 30 years, although the judge isn’t bound by that. Time served for the state charges will run concurrently with federal sentences they are scheduled to receive. Each could get longer prison sentences in federal court in November.

The men include five former Rankin County sheriff’s deputies — Brett McAlpin, Hunter Elward, Christian Dedmon, Jeffrey Middleton and Daniel Opdyke — and a police officer from the city of Richland, Joshua Hartfield.

All six pleaded guilty to state charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to hinder prosecution.

Dedmon and Elward, who kicked in a door, pleaded guilty to additional charges of home invasion. Elward also pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, for shoving a gun into the mouth of one of the victims and pulling the trigger, in what authorities called a “mock execution.”

The victims — Michael Corey Jenkins and Eddie Terrell Parker — arrived together. They sat in the front row, feet away from their attackers’ families. Monica Lee, the mother of Damien Cameron, another Black man who died in 2021 after Elward punched and tased him during an arrest, embraced both men.

After the brazen acts of police violence in Rankin County came to light, some residents pointed to a police culture they said gave officers carte blanche to abuse their power.

The civil rights charges followed an Associated Press investigation linking some of the officers to at least four violent encounters with Black men since 2019, which left two dead and another with lasting injuries. The Justice Department launched a civil rights probe in February.

Rankin County’s majority-white suburbs have been a destination for white flight out of the capital, Jackson, which is home to one of the highest percentages of Black residents of any major U.S. city.

The officers warned Jenkins and Parker to “go back to Jackson or ‘their side’ of the Pearl River,” the documents say.

Jenkins and Parker were targeted because a white neighbor complained that two Black men were staying at the home with a white woman, court documents show.

Parker was a childhood friend of the homeowner, Kristi Walley. She’s been paralyzed since she was 15, and Parker was helping care for her.

“He’s a blessing. Every time I’ve needed him he’s been here,” Walley said in a February interview. “There were times I’ve been living here by myself and I didn’t know what I was going to do.”

Parker and Jenkins have left Mississippi and aren’t sure they will ever return to the state for an extended period. They took solace that at least one part of the justice system appears to have worked.

“With a little fight, with a lot of fight, you can come out with the truth,” Parker said a day after the guilty pleas were announced. “And the truth always prevails over any lie or story you make up.”

Jenkins still has difficulty speaking because of his injuries. The gunshot lacerated his tongue and broke his jaw before exiting his neck.

“As far as justice, I knew we were going to get it,” Jenkins said. “But I thought it was maybe going to take longer.”

Kristen Clarke, who heads the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, said the officers fomented distrust within the community they were supposed to serve. Mississippi Attorney General Lynn Fitch said the abuse of power would not be tolerated.

https://apnews.com/article/mississi...zdVimAtfo4elk8etVQkT7xXV99gu8Yw49M74lFGM

Military jobs based on intelligence- lowest- cooks and cops. Why shortages in Cleveland AND throughout the US- easy....defund police, criminals arrested and walk due to lenient prosecutors/judges- overcrowded jails---a new one- during pandemic- they could die in jail, so release them onto the general public.

PLUS- job description, go do what average citizen would never do- get shot at, pick up druggies, interfere in domestic disputed----PLUS goodie, if any kind of disaster hits, you can't take care of your family cuz the greater good is to try to take care of everyone else----BONUS- you don't get paid much.....SIGN ME UP.

Actually as has been posted on the board before, very few cities actually "defunded the police". It's a popular mantra among many but it factually didn't happen on anything that resembles a large scale basis. And I think another component is there are a certain faction of people that enter police departments based on the power it gives them. Now that they are being held more accountable for their actions it's certainly not as appealing to that sector.

Guardian- " Portland, Oregon, cut $15m from its budget and disbanded a gun violence reduction unit and transit team that had both long been accused of over-policing Black communities. San Francisco officials pledged to divest $120m from police over two years with plans to invest in health programs and workforce training. Minneapolis is using police cuts to launch a mental health team to respond to certain 911 calls.
New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Baltimore and a dozen other cities have all also reduced police spending. And some of these cities are now demonstrating the impacts of their new budgets." Ya been to Portland recently, or Seattle- all cities mentioned are JMHO-major population centers for their states/nation. I ain't saying mental health issues aren't important- BUT BASIC policing can't go down in our gun culture society.

Caring a gun will ALWAYS attract some different folks- you've painted organized religious as dirty too. Vast majority of cops and religious leaders are outstanding citizens.

I spent 26 yrs in military as pilot- got shot at many times, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop- the sacrifice is to great for what you have to put up with.

They actually don’t pay them much anyways….and you could say the same for teachers, nurses, firemen, first responders, social workers and a dozen other life saving jobs.

Once again thanks for not paying attention. I'll try again.....
Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many U.S. cities

Leaders across the country have blamed the rise in crime on the "defund the police" movement. In most places, it never happened.

ABC Owned Television Stations examined the budgets of more than 100 cities and counties and found 83% are spending at least 2% more on police in 2022 than in 2019.

https://abc7.com/where-police-depar...mpact-crime-defund-the-budgets/12324846/

The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church

A series of abuse scandals, often involving children, have rocked the Catholic Church in recent decades.

The Catholic Church has been repeatedly rocked by child sexual abuse scandals over the last three decades.

An independent inquiry on Tuesday said it had concluded there were about 216,000 victims of sexual abuse carried out by the French Catholic Church’s clergy between 1950 and 2020.

According to lawyers, more than 11,000 complaints have been lodged in the US by victims of priests. Dioceses have paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in out of court settlements.

A grand jury investigation into Pennsylvania dioceses in 2018 exposed the systematic cover-up by the church of abuse by “over 300 predator priests”. More than 1,000 child victims were cited.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/5/awful-truth-child-sex-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

And that's just in the Catholic Church alone in two countries. While I doubt you're actually interested, the link breaks it down by country No big deal, right?

Yes, when higher ups of a religion help hide children being molested, it's a huge problem. That's a systemic problem.

J/C we wouldn’t need so much policing if we had a true world class education system instead of our prison like setting in schools caused by gun violence.

I was thinking if we didn't have as many criminals.

We have a good education system. People just don't apply themselves while there. Parents don't make them.

Our education system is atrocious. It saddens me that anyone thinks it’s quality.

Just like most other things in America, even the education system is rigged and the have nots get shafted. Coupled with the political dumbing down of America and you get what we have. I remember the 70s, with most men involved in tinkering. I learned a lot from the dads in my friends group. They all would take the time to show you what they were doing and how. From building wood-splitters, to small engines repair, working on cars, or hanging with the popular science and popular mechanics dads and doing something cutting edge… We built ham radios, electronic gadgets, new tools, etc. It was a childhood steeped in hands on learning. Today there is almost none of that, nor nearly the number of men/women capable of doing it.

We’re now a done for you nation with a pitiful basic education system because corps and politicians wanted factory worker mindsets for plug and play replacements.

I don’t think any ambush killings are acceptable, but that number is lower thought with us living in a time where law is only relevant when it’s not impeding one’s political or religious views…

Cool story. Thanks for sharing.

When you live in a very affluent community where property taxes heavily fund your school district it's easy to come to the conclusion that public schools are great. After all they have the funds to hire the best teachers and attract them. That's what happens when people choose to look at things under a microscope rather than through a telescope.

j/c...

Bronx judge frees men charged with beating up NYPD officer — despite DA’s request for $10K bail

By Steven Vago, Joe Marino and Steve Janoski
Published Nov. 16, 2023, 2:12 a.m. ET

A Bronx judge released two brutes accused of pummeling a cop who asked them to put out their cigarettes at a subway station — in a move that was slammed by one NYPD union leader as “upside down.”

Kaream McClary, 23, and Izayiah Jessamy, 20, were hit with assault charges for allegedly beating up Officer John Hernandez at the Freeman Street station on Monday, according to court documents and the NYPD.

At their hearing Tuesday in Bronx Criminal Court, prosecutors requested bail set at $10,000 or $30,000 bond — but Judge Eugene Bowen released them without bail, according to court records.

Patrick Hendry, the president of the Police Benevolent Association union, tore into the decision.

“This shows the absolutely upside down world we’re living in,” Hendry said in a statement.

“We need New Yorkers to start speaking up and demanding real consequences for those who assault cops,” he said.

“Our streets and subways won’t be safe if the cops protecting them aren’t safe.”

New York State Office of Court Administration’s communications director, Al Baker, defended the decision to release the suspects following their arraignment.

Kaream McClary, 23, Izayiah Jessamy, 20, were arraigned Tuesday on assault charges for allegedly beating up officer John Hernandez.

At their hearing in Bronx Criminal Court, prosecutors requested bail set at $10,000 or $30,000 bond.

“Release determinations, made after reviewing the facts and circumstances of a case, are about assuring that the accused return to court,” he said in a statement to The Post.

Still, it’s a conspicuously controversial decision by Bowen, a former Legal Aid public defender and math professor who only donned a judge’s robes for the first time in January.

The Democratic magistrate’s decision also flies in the face of a ruling made in a similar case, when a Bronx Criminal Court judge ordered a pair of 24-year-old thugs who pummeled a uniformed NYPD officer to be held on $40,000 bail Sunday night.

The victim — Lt. Gypsy Pichardo — is recovering from the beating, which left with a battered face and eight stitches to his swollen left eye.

Footage of McClary and Jessamy’s alleged attack, meanwhile, popped up on social media this week, and shows three men arguing with officers before then repeatedly punching Hernandez in the head, face, and neck.

Hernandez covers up for protection during the caught-on-camera scuffle.

“Yo, yo beat him!” a man yells in the clip as officers grapple with the attackers.

The shocking video was not mentioned at the arraignment, a source told The Post.

Neither of the two defendants have criminal records and both were recommended release by the Criminal Justice Agency, the source said.

The brazen beatdown came as assaults against NYPD cops have skyrocketed by more than 25% this year, according to data obtained by The Post last month.

The pair of cops eventually collared the two assailants at the scene, the video shows, but the third attacker managed to get away.

Neither of the two defendants have criminal records and both were recommended release by the Criminal Justice Agency, the source said.

Lawyers for McClary and Jessamy did not return a request for comment.

Their next court date is scheduled for Dec. 18.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/metro...hout-bail-after-beating-up-nypd-officer/



In other news...

No way, Mr. Mayor: Huge NYPD budget cuts mean disaster AND betrayal of your voters

NYPD freeze on new recruits among looming NYC budget cuts as migrant crisis worsens

That was terrible! There are certainly times our justice system fails and this certainly seems like one of them.

I do understand how budget deficits call for cuts in many things across the board. One would hope that law enforcement doesn't have to be one of them.

There is a faction of America attacking all things law enforcement. None of this crap surprises me. Insane.

It is insane.

Record numbers of cops have retired or changed careers after the ACAB movement. Cities and munis seem to have followed the "woke" carrot with defund and "bail is no fair". Recruits are scarce since the job sucks, there's little respect, and your life is more endangered by the day. Yet the beat goes on.

Almost all decisions in life are based on possible repercussions, but those seem to be fewer and further between when it comes to crime.

Some of these things seem ridiculously simple. Assault a cop -- go to jail -- bail starts at 20G, no exceptions. Wait, maybe there should be exceptions for _______, nope, nevermind, NO exceptions.