DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Clarence X

I'm going to give this a try.
Maybe it will spark some good conversation. If not- minimum effort expended.

I would ask that any poster responding to this thread take the time to listen to this podcast episode in its entirety before entering the conversation. In the interest of community fairness, every participant should be operating from a level playing field. That goal can only be accomplished if serious participants speak from the same source. I'm hoping to play this talk out to its natural conclusion with a minimum of devolution and drive-by trolling. 'Silent Clarence' isn't being silent any longer. He's the senior presiding justice, and his voice has gotten louder. It is in our best interests to know who we're talking about when we invoke his name in our debates.

The presentation takes about 1 hour. I found it to be time well-spent. (I was listening to it in my earbuds, while I was weeding a bed in the back yard)

If I didn't think it would spark the synapses of at least a few of you, I wouldn't have tried something like this once again.

This podcast/broadcast series is dedicated to all things Supreme Court. It's been in my podcatcher feed since its launch date. This link will take you to their website's recent episode.

Please immediately click the 'listen' button the moment you arrive. Don't look around before clicking. You can't miss it... it's a "listen for free" button the same color as a tennis ball.

#honorsystem


Fingers crossed,
Clem.


Clarence X

I’m old enough to know exactly who CT is. And as with a few other justices on the SC they don’t represent the majority of America and should never been confirmed to the SC on past indiscretions. I didn’t see the link at first. I’ll read the podcast and comment more.

I did have a chance to listen to this and did learn a few things about CT I didn’t know. My take away is he overcame being black as a disadvantage and put forth a new path for himself. And he had a lot of recourses. It wasn’t like he was poor. After all he went to one of the best law schools in America. Still my opinion hasn’t changed. He doesn’t represent his own. He got lucky when Ronald Reagan needed a “black” right wing conservative judge sitting on the SC. Talk about AA. Pfffft.

Agreed- but with one caveat: he actually was poor- and got his education through AA.

In this regard, I find his behavior about as hypocritical as can be. Essentially, he found a way to climb the ladder, and now at the top, is attempting to pull the ladder up after himself.


In my old neighborhood, we had a saying: "not all skin is kin." He's a prime example of what we meant.

Thomas got his, but now he thinks he’s white. Smug SOB living on a millionaire’s dime and selling out the country. I hope both he and Alito get removed or worse. But even that would only be two down with four corrupt justices to go. Going against the will of the majority should be treason in their positions if you ask me. What they’ve done the last two years is simply unforgivable.

I've been stupid busy. I may get a chance to listen to this today... Apologies Clem. Will add something once I've listened. Regarding CT; I've made a comment recently about him and the affirmative action he benefitted from then ruled to end.... And I see today a story about lawyers with business before the SC contributing to CT Christmas Party. 🤣 OH maybe someone will say it doesn't matter? Or maybe they'll just be silent like the rest of this thread!!

No apologies necessary.

I just put this out into the community because this guy has been something of an enigma for the bulk of his time on the bench. And now, after 30 years of relative obscurity, he's become this frontline mouthpiece that we haven't seen since the death of Scalia. I've always been curious about him; his SCOTUS confirmation hearings were some of the first political issues I'd taken an interest in, as a young man. The Anita Hill testimony was one of the very first "Me Too" moments America had ever seen.

This series' episode digs into Justice CT's origin story, and traces his trajectory to the man we see now.

Fascinating stuff.
People are complex. and contradictory.

more talk later when more join in,
Clem

This is the show. It's an auto-feed to my podcatcher.

Damn that was a great listen. I love that most of it is fact based. Often CT words, his history of development into who he is today. There's a little bit of opinion based stuff at the end trying to get into Clarence X reasoning or thoughts which is very subjective, but that is truly a small portion of the podcast.... I'm on my phone. Sorry for typos.

So. This is like a giant onion, lots of layer! What do YOU want to focus on or what sticks with you after listening? There's several angles.

I guess from my perspective it's interesting with the Malcom X background. Man what a bundle of contradiction and puzzles he leaves us with.

He seems like he wants to have his ethnicity not mentioned or referenced, and he seems to want to be simy recognized as being a great man, period. I don't think recognizing him as being Black stigmatizes his achievements in any way but damn you get the feeling somehow he does.

He also seems to want to assume the entire Black Community /population is going to be representative of him, his life and his family experiences. I'd say 100% that's not the case. And forming opinions drawn from those experiences/thoughts in the SC probably a mistake. Jmho.

Interatingly with the talk of foxes and wolves and how ea h behaves and how that analogy appears to have shaped some of his perspectives.... My feeling is the Clarence X is himself a fox of sorts. Didn't start out that way and his opinions may still have been bold and out in the open... But dude seems to have an agenda.

I'm all over the place.... Pick a comment and rwspk D if you like! And, just remembering the intro and the multiple issues surrounding him and his wife... More than a little alarming. But only if you're paying attention and the bright twirling lights have already moved on and created distraction for the mazses.

I know, right?
Almost all my podcasts listen like this. I tend to not waste time on shallow, trivial programs that fail to spark thought. YOLO, yo- but expressed in a way that's very different from 'Jackass'-level entertainment.

Yes... the multifaceted Clarence is quite the story.

The Malcolm X angle was quite surprising to me. So to, is his personal take based on Malcolm's influence. That editorialized section at the end insinuated that CT believes that only Blacks can truly help Blacks, an assertion which I do not share. I've always been in Camp Martin where these base philosophies collide: America works best when all help each other. Isolationist/nationalist viewpoints have never worked in a "gumbo" society (I steer clear of the 'melting pot' analogy) based upon multiculturalism. Almost always self-defeating, where the quest for equality and progress are in the warp & weft of societal fabric.

I also find his contradictions quite striking. I didn't grow up dirt poor, but we were a single income (civil servant salary) home, and money was tight. In that regard, our respective origin stories have similarities. My career has often placed me in the company of our community's movers/shakers, but I never felt compelled to take them up on offers to golf a round at their clubs or anything similar. I've been to many of their homes, but always kept them at a polite, cordial arm's length. And I promise you, if I was ever invited to a home with Naught-see memorabilia or a statue garden populated with sculptures depicting some of the world's most detestible despots, I'd be "one-and-done" at that address. I most certainly wouldn't feel compelled to spend 2 weeks with them at some exotic locale on the other side of the planet. CT seems to be unconflicted in that regard. Like I said in my intro, people are complex.

My Wife's take: he recognized The Game at an early age, and worked it to his own personal advantage. Conserv was where he saw that the wealth and power resided, and those factors influenced his choices along the way. She may be right, at least in part.

And of his many contradiction, I have this rhetorical question: is Harlan Crow one the foxes, or wolves? I mean, he smiles, he's warm, he's generous with his yachts, private plane rides and lavish gifts... but then, there's that nazi stuff, as well. How does Thomas square that stuff in his own mind?

If the two of us ever met at a cocktail party, I might be an uncomfortable conversation for him.


.02

Feel free to share any other podcasts of great interest or that make us ponder and lead to thoughtful reflection! I have not to this point been a great podcast consumer - but I did listen and really enjoy Malcom Gladwell's 'Revisionist History' series and highly recommend.

I can see and "get" all you wrote - even your wife's take although I am not sure if his transitions and development at an early stage were quite so calculated, but who knows. And while it would be great to think either of us could make the man uncomfortable during a conversation - my own belief is that he has grown in his own mind to beyond such accountability and being challenged by the plebians, instead believing he has justified everything in his own mind and probably doesn't need to justify himself and his choices. But that's 100% speculation on my part.

I tend to agree with your wife. It seems odd to me that he thinks only black people can help black people when he climbed on the backs of white people to be helped himself.

Frontline did a documentary on Clarence (and Ginni) Thomas back in early May of this year. A nearly two-hour documentary that also dives into his formative years.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/clarence-and-ginni-thomas/

Smart woman. Isn't that the point, but as you said, in part.

Knowing how to play the game, be it the shop floor or the halls of justice is how you get ahead. Lot's of people are smart and or work hard. Knowing how to play the game doesn't preclude being smart or working hard. One still has to do and have that. Or, maybe I should say that not knowing how to play the game holds a person back.

That said, maybe he is conservative because he is conservative. Why is that so shocking?

To Pit's point...


I think he is right to a large degree. I think he is talking as a whole rather than in singular terms. If you think about it, Jim Brown said the same thing. Politically they may have not agreed, but on that point they were in lockstep.

Did you listen to the podcast?

No, I read the transcript. When listening to something, I feel like I am doing nothing and zone out to some degree. I find myself thinking about other things.
Reading on the other hand is doing something, so I remain engaged in the text. It also allows one to be able to skim through the general chit chat that occurs in a group conversation that doesn't add anything to the information one seeks.

It also allows one to read the words rather than be influenced by voice inflection.

One can view it that way. At least the layers. Maybe not the contradictions so much. I see it as the evolution of the kid from Pin Point, Ga, to the man he is today. Almost everybody evolves as they grow older and gain experience.

In my own life I can point to many things one might call contradiction that I call evolution. In the most basic form I can think of, I did things when I was 17-18 that no way in hell i wanted my own kids doing.

Is that contradiction or evolving? I say evolving because time and experience tells you it isn't the thing to do, even though you did those things.