DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2023 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 24 Bengals 3 Postgame Thoughts

I hope he doesn’t have to politely hand Pickett his helmet Monday night.

Power rankings are so tough, but I think it's about right for just one week. I hope we don't think too highly of ourselves going into Monday night

I'm in the minority that I think Burrow is overrated. Average arm who both elevates and is elevated by the players around him. Put him on a team with average receivers and I don't think he could carry that team to the playoffs.

Watson played poorly. No two ways around it. He's been short hopping passes since he's been here so it's hard to say the weather was the cause. He does have the ability to turn into a running back which is what we essentially did when it was clear he couldn't pass the ball. The rushing td was nice. The td to Bryant was a scheme td. Any of us could have thrown that. But he essentially missed wide open receivers all day and not just the ones that the TV showed. He needs to play better. The defense saved the day.

But just win games. If he's going to be average but we are winning games because of the defense so be it.

Just. Win. Games.

Being in the right place at the right time contributes to a lot of the success and/or failure seen in the NFL.

Hopefully Schwartz with our defensive players is one of those fortuitous circumstances.

I'm not quite sure how saying "But he sucked less" is a strong defense of that performance. 16 of 29 passes for 154 yards, one touchdown and one interception speaks for itself. I know if the former QB of the browns had that same performance people would be calling for his head. In fact they did.

Congrats on the baby!

One just won. The other didn't win enough. Victory covers a multitude of sins.

It's another example of right time, right place.

Yet the sin is the same whether you cover it up or not.

But there is the possibility of contrition from sin and doing better vs. continuing to commit the "sin" over and over again.

While that's certainly true I don't think that changes breaking down a game and the performance in that game. I don't think saying "He sucked less than their QB" changes that poor performance. Do you? Which was the original point of it all.

I don't necessarily think Watson sucked less than anyone; I'd say he sucked pretty much exactly the same as Burrow. I think the difference for the QBs was more that our WRs caught the balls, and their DBs allowed our WRs to catch them. The more I think back on the game, the more I realize that I don't recall Watson actually really making many plays on his own, but I do recall the WRs making plays and making things happen. He had a run or two, but so did Burrow... so, really, those WRs ARE the difference.

And, Pit, you are 100% correct in that if this had been another QB here with those numbers, he'd be getting ROASTED, and that's just simply a fact-of-the-matter statement. Take it for what it is.
That said, is Watson improves, he quiets any chance of that talk getting started. If he remains mundane, however, then that talks absolutely SHOULD begin.... but, it is too early in the season for that, especially with a sample size of only one.

It doesn't change it, but it expands upon it. Some people prefer more conversation and different perspectives. Others prefer to repeat banal generalities over and over again.

I've been saying that ^ since he came into the league. He's playing with (2) #1 WRs and a darn good 3rd guy who is a borderline #2 type. His bread and butter are the dinks to the sideline that oftentimes don't even get to the line of scrimmage...the dunks over the LOS to an open RB/TE...or the chucks down the sideline where his stellar WRs make a play. His HC doesn't often put him into situations that he cannot handle (smart). When he has to put some stank on a throw, the result is usually not good. There is a reason he could not get ahead of Haskins at OSU - his passing ability wasn't THAT much better than Haskins' PLUS Haskins was a much better athlete.

I think Cincy has gone to the well too many times of replacing really good TEs like they are insignificant to Cool Joe's game.

If you have a D that can be sticky on those (2) WRs, it'll not be fun for Joe.

Great win! Thanks D! And it’s amazing what a real DC brings to the team.

Chubb, always good. OL played well even after Conklin went down early. We have a good group of WR. DW has many weapons, more than I can remember any Browns QB having in my 50+ years of fandom.

Jury is still out, but I’m glad I’m not the only one less than impressed by DW’s play in game one. Hoping we didn’t get sold a 230 mil bill of goods that turns out to be mediocre garbage. He should play the full season before final judgement. This game goes in the meh column for me.

The kicker trade was another good solid move by Berry.

Just clicking.

I don't think Watson played poorly.

My opinion is there is a segment of the fanbase who are never going to be satisfied because they just don't like the guy. Some because of the allegations, some because he replaced Baker, and some because they don't like the price we paid to get him.

It's pretty predictable who is going to make those comments, so I just mostly ignore what they have to say about the QB.

...not sure your recollection is entirely accurate. Burrow was credited with 1 run for -1 yard on pro-football-reference. Watson had 5 for 45 (9 yards per attempt) including a TD and a 2 point conversion.

Just saying. He had some decent moments. It is easy to allow them to be overshadowed by the misses.

That's one way to look at it if one believes that it's somehow a bad thing to break things down on a game to game basis. How many different perspectives are there to look at 16-29 for 154 yards total passing with 1 td and 1 int.?

The ball was moist?

It's alo pretty predictable who is going to make excuses for a bad performance as well. So you don't consider this a bad performance in the passing game? 16-29 for 154 yards total passing with 1 td and 1 int.

They're valid complaints, though, regardless of how you feel about them or any of the reasons you think are behind them.
A *gigantic* stink was made about needing to replace the last QB and performance was the top item on that list... and then we dropped a Quarter Billion Dollars to get a guy to replace him and we're not getting any better performance.

That is literally an exemplar of what a legitimate gripe looks like.

Your preference (for only your perspective) is showing. *shrug*

It is what it is. Excuses rule the day depending on the name on the uniform. The footwork was sloppy just like it was last season with pretty much the same results. As I said earlier that is something that is fixable. So hopefully it will get better moving forward. But when you break this game down realistically people would rather try to make it about personalities rather than the performance on the field. Same as it ever was.

That is surprising, actually, because I was absolutely certain I recalled Burrow having more than that. Maybe what I'm thinking of was called back?

The fact that you blame watsons performance in the passing game on me rather than him is showing.

I wonder why people seem to have trouble grasping such a basic concept? Maybe they think "Your preference (for only your perspective) is showing. *shrug*"?

...in a bad weather game where the highest paid player in the league, who happens to play the same position, had an objectively worse outing in every measurable category.

I can get how one would feel the complaint. There are different perspectives on the level of its validity and the context that is being considered. Deshaun will need to perform better in the future to justify his contract. I'm not sure the same standard should be expected in bad weather games as in good conditions, though.

...What are you going on about?

Like...What!? Seriously?

Blame Watson's performance on you? You certainly seem to have some you stuck in your brain.

You obviously haven't been following the thread. No wait, you have.

16-29 for 154 yards total passing with 1 td and 1 int.

According to you those numbers are "Your preference (for only your perspective) is showing. *shrug*"

And let me tell you something else that's factual. If you consider drizzle And no wind a bad weather game in Cleveland, that's your preference showing that isn't grounded in reality.

j/c...

I think it's easy to see that the weather impacted both QBs play. Not just the rain, but the humidity. It's one thing to throw a wet ball, it's another to do it in a Vietnam jungle. The humidity was so high that it would probably be hard to grip if it wasn't raining. You know how when you're trying to do something and have to constantly wipe your hands on your clothing because they're 'clammy'? Try wiping them on a wet jersey and then rifling a pro football. Yeah, yeah, that's want these dudes get paid to do, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Joe changed his glove thirty-nine times, Deshaun clearly talked about gripping the ball too hard post game.

Almost all posters are saying DW needs to play better. Refusing to condemn him for a terrible performance is not the same as making excuses. It is what it is -- he needs to play better -- and he'll have to play better in bad weather all the time now, he's in Cleveland.


Jmo, but nobody would be condemning Baker for that performance after a signature win, twenty years in the waiting, against a rival and Super Bowl contender. We'd all be saying the same thing -- he needs to play better.

Were you at the game? Why do you insist on contradicting the words of the people that were actually on the field?

It wasn't a good weather game. The opposite of good is bad. This isn't complicated.

The numbers are the numbers. As ever, some people consider the context. You don't appear to be one of them.

j/c again...

Did anyone else feel like we were 'stealing signs' Sunday? lol

It looked like our DBs were running the pass patterns and their WRs were trying to defend then. Hanford and Frankie had to be proud.

I'm basing it on what posters on this board who were actually AT THE GAME stated about the weather during the game. Not people who have some vested interest in putting the best possible spin on it they can.

Did any of these posters handle a game ball? Actually try to throw it?

What did these posters at the game actually say? They may have said it drizzled, but I don't think any of them said the weather had no effect on the game. They may have said there was no wind, but wind isn't really the issue when talking about grip and footing.

Stealing signs, no. I do think the combination of the weather and our pressure greatly limited the routes that our DBs needed to truly worry about.

Seriously "the balls was wet" is not a very high bar but you keep making it sound as though it's 10' tall. But when one needs to find excuses you'll have that.

Lol pretty easy to see the posters that will never give Watson any credit. Going by people who “were at the game” lol. Were they up in stands trying to throw a football into a 1 foot window too. They showed the ball many times under center close up and you can see it wasn’t just “moist” it was drenched. Anyone who has ever tried to throw such a ball knows it affects flight and grip. And it’s heavy. That being said, Watson had a rough game throwing, but he made some big time throws when we needed and without him we don’t win this game. Period . His ability to move, extend plays and pick up first downs was the difference. That in turn kept the defense fresh and the pressure on cincy. To say otherwise is just having an agenda. I’d give him a few weeks before we start calling for his head.

Sure, we should all give him credit for this... 16-29 for 154 yards total passing with 1 td and 1 int.

But you are right, some people simply refuse to do it because "the ball was damp".

I think we need to define shades of bad weather games. Baker got vilified for playing badly in two bad weather games that made Sundays game VS the Bengals look like ideal conditions... Rain going sideways and gusts up to 40 mph. For some that wasn't a good excuse for sub QB play.

As for the comparison to Burrows and trying to pass things off as all conditions between him and Watson being equal, the pressure Burrows faced All game was way off the charts compared to Watson. That was as big or bigger (imo) factor than the rain. Add that Burrows is returning from injury.... Did he even play in the preseason??.... There is no real comparison to be made.

This game doesn't define Watson. He's got a whole season to show how good he still is. As Browns fans we all want him to be elite.

But if anyone wants to be fair and balanced, while Watson has lots of reasons for pedestrian performances as a Brown: missing a full season with Hou, being suspended 11 games the next year with the Browns, off field issues... Now a 'bad weather' game... The fact is he's completely underwhelmed to date as a Cleveland player. Denying that would be very hard to justify. If fans aren't even a little concerned then I think they're sucking hard on the kool-aid. JMO

That's a pretty fair analysis.

As far Baker getting vilified for playing badly in bad weather games, I tend to avoid the postgame threads after losses knowing that they're going to be vitriol filled. Heck I avoid gameday threads for similar reasons.

That's kind of a piece of what feels kind of weird here. We won by 3 scores.

I think the halo effect is a factor in how both QBs are viewed. Baker, fairly or not, was associated with all the losing. Watson's off field actions taint how some view him.

I'd prefer that Watson work out here, and don't think that unrealistic expectations and faulty narratives will help that happen.

Watson does need to play better than he has.

I hope he succeeds here too. However I do not think that expecting him to be a passer that is above NFL average is some unrealistic expectation given he is being paid accordingly. I also don't think a realistic breakdown of his performance from game to game is a faulty narrative. There's a difference in watson on the field and off the field. Some of us can separate the two and some of us claim that can't be done in order to present the type of faulty narrative you mentioned.