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He's generally done pretty well vs pressure. I think he's a little overhyped, but he does do stuff that other more gifted QBs are never able to do.

Cinci has also never really given him any sort of offensive line to brag about.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I hope he succeeds here too. However I do not think that expecting him to be a passer that is above NFL average is some unrealistic expectation given he is being paid accordingly. I also don't think a realistic breakdown of his performance from game to game is a faulty narrative. There's a difference in watson on the field and off the field. Some of us can separate the two and some of us claim that can't be done in order to present the type of faulty narrative you mentioned.

Expecting him to be above NFL average over the season isn't an unrealistic expectation. What is NFL average with a waterlogged ball? Burrow didn't break 100 yards and played from behind the entire 2nd half. You can credit the defense for some of that, but I don't care if it was the 85 Bears you're not holding Burrow that low if the weather is fine. You're not holding any close to average NFL QB below 100 yards in good weather in a game in the modern NFL. Burrow's yards per attempt were 1/3 of his career average.

I'm not sure you'd know whether something was realistic or not if it literally rammed you and sent you flying. I don't doubt that you could convince yourself what you experienced firsthand wasn't possible.

Look, I could go on, but it's just not worth it. I'm gonna go back to not opening up your posts. Maybe I'll re-evaluate after the bye.


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I think Watson mentioned what I saw, he was not setting his feet before the throw.

It was not a great game, but a W is way more important.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg

And mostly with one arm. crazy


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It's early days for Burrows and Watson. The weather had an impact on both. But I just posted a tweet in the Schwartz Defence thread in Pure Football, apparently Burrows had an average time before pressure of something like 0.195 seconds which is 6th lowest in the NFL over a several season spell.... Don't underestimate the impact of the D on Burrows play.


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that's an impressive stat for the D ... we need it again Monday


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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You keep comparing him to Burrow in that game when our D totally dominated Cinci's OL and had his WR's covered like a glove. That's not the same thing. Also NFL footballs don't get "water logged". they change them out all the time. But it was a creative way to stretch the narrative via an adjective. Reality is if a misty day with no wind beside Lake Eerie is an excuse for that performance, we're all in for a bad ride as time goes on.

Woofer posted about his footwork. So did I. You ignore it.

mgh posted how quickly pressure was being applied to Burrow. So did I. You ignore it.

I'm not saying the weather had zero impact. I'm saying it's a sad excuse to blame his entire performance on. I'm not the only one who sees that.

Quote
Precipitation

Precipitation is a trickier weather condition to handicap. The sample sizes are a bit hard to reliably work with because it can be challenging to isolate precipitation’s actual effect on play versus the compounding results coming from other weather effects commonly present during rain (wind) and snow (wind and temperature).

Generally speaking, there is no difference between light rain, moderate rain, or heavy rain.

This probably seems intuitively strange as it is easy to imagine players slipping around everywhere in a torrential downpour. However, it is important to remember that we are trying to isolate precipitation from other conditions.

Nevertheless, the presence of (any kind of) rain decreases passing production by around 12%.

https://www.covers.com/nfl/how-weather-affects-betting

That's the average even considering wind. A 12% bump would still be bad.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I didn’t get to see the game since I am overseas. I did sit and listen to the radio broadcast with Jim Donovan and Nathan S (and Jerrod Cherry) while the game was being played. Afterwards I watched the full game highlights on YouTube.

During the game, Jimmy said a couple times that Burrows kept switching from using a glove on/off to find a better way of getting a grip on the ball. Cherry brought it up once or twice about the ball and field being slippery. So it did play a part in the issues for both QBs. I am also aware there were other factors involved as stated by a few on here (I.e bad throws, pressure, etc)

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Maybe I missed it in the posts.

I haven’t seen much posts and credit given Stefanski. By what I heard and saw in the game highlights, it looked and sounded like he had his team ready to play. They also seemed disciplined as I didn’t hear many penalties called on the Browns compared to previous years. There seemed like there were quite a bit called against Cincy.

Also, (this next part is a correct me if I’m wrong) the play calling sounded like it was excellent for the field conditions. Lots of running plays, a bunch of dump offs, short/medium routes to the back and other receivers. They threw a few deep balls to keep the defense from creeping up. The receivers sounded like they were getting open and levels were spaced out.

They also did pretty well in the red zone, besides the Ford fumble.

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And I do give it credit for it being "a portion of the problem". But as you can see by the stats, it was 12% of the problem. And that 12% statistic was accumulated even without factoring when there was wind occurring during rain games which they were not last weekend.

I think it's nave to think the weather was either all of the problem or none of the problem. So I believe we are pretty much on the same page here. At least for the most part.


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Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Maybe I missed it in the posts.

I haven’t seen much posts and credit given Stefanski. By what I heard and saw in the game highlights, it looked and sounded like he had his team ready to play. They also seemed disciplined as I didn’t hear many penalties called on the Browns compared to previous years. There seemed like there were quite a bit called against Cincy.

Also, (this next part is a correct me if I’m wrong) the play calling sounded like it was excellent for the field conditions. Lots of running plays, a bunch of dump offs, short/medium routes to the back and other receivers. They threw a few deep balls to keep the defense from creeping up. The receivers sounded like they were getting open and levels were spaced out.

They also did pretty well in the red zone, besides the Ford fumble.

I still didn't like how much work Ford got-and he was in a couple times when we were going in to score, he fumbled inside Cincy's 20.
Chubb had 18 carries for 5.89 yards per carry
Ford had 15 carries for 2.4 yards per carry
We need to get our horse out there-

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Originally Posted by northlima dawg
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Maybe I missed it in the posts.

I haven’t seen much posts and credit given Stefanski. By what I heard and saw in the game highlights, it looked and sounded like he had his team ready to play. They also seemed disciplined as I didn’t hear many penalties called on the Browns compared to previous years. There seemed like there were quite a bit called against Cincy.

Also, (this next part is a correct me if I’m wrong) the play calling sounded like it was excellent for the field conditions. Lots of running plays, a bunch of dump offs, short/medium routes to the back and other receivers. They threw a few deep balls to keep the defense from creeping up. The receivers sounded like they were getting open and levels were spaced out.

They also did pretty well in the red zone, besides the Ford fumble.

I still didn't like how much work Ford got-and he was in a couple times when we were going in to score, he fumbled inside Cincy's 20.
Chubb had 18 carries for 5.89 yards per carry
Ford had 15 carries for 2.4 yards per carry
We need to get our horse out there-

I think Conklin's injury played a factor in Chubb's lack of reps. I'm guessing their thinking was "Why risk a stud who frankly doesn't need more reps on a slippery field, when Cinci's O did nothing the entire game?" Plus, Ford could clearly use the reps without even considering his missed time. He's not had many live NFL snaps. They need to figure out if they need a better backup come crunch time.


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That's a total of 33 carries. Nobody should ride a horse that hard. I think the problem is that they need to find a better alternative as the backup RB.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's a total of 33 carries. Nobody should ride a horse that hard. I think the problem is that they need to find a better alternative as the backup RB.

I think we should give Ford more time, a lot of his carries came Sunday when we were just running out the clock and Cincy knew that and stacked the box.


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's a total of 33 carries. Nobody should ride a horse that hard. I think the problem is that they need to find a better alternative as the backup RB.

Pit, I am not saying to give Nick 33 carries.
What I am saying is Chubb should be in there when we are in the red zone and when it is later in the game and the game isn't out of reach.
Ford should definitely should have been getting work in the late fourth when we were up by three scores.

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we've really done a good job of limiting Chubb's usage over his career ... he rarely eclipses into that 25+ carries and it's going to serve him well to extend his career


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Watson outperformed Burrow, Allen, Rodgers and Mahommes.


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Did you consider him as having a good performance in the passing game? I didn't think so.


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Originally Posted by dawg66
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's a total of 33 carries. Nobody should ride a horse that hard. I think the problem is that they need to find a better alternative as the backup RB.

I think we should give Ford more time, a lot of his carries came Sunday when we were just running out the clock and Cincy knew that and stacked the box.

That's exactly what happened. His last 8 carries netted 0 yards. Everyone in the building knew we were running... and every handoff to Ford was just a formality to running the clock and letting those little kitties get back on their bus.

Before those last two series he was 7/36/5.1


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Yep, I was just pointing out what was being said on the broadcast.

I didn't get to see the game live. The full game highlights showed a good portion of the game, but that still didn’t give me a good feel on the conditions to give my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
Originally Posted by northlima dawg
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Maybe I missed it in the posts.

I haven’t seen much posts and credit given Stefanski. By what I heard and saw in the game highlights, it looked and sounded like he had his team ready to play. They also seemed disciplined as I didn’t hear many penalties called on the Browns compared to previous years. There seemed like there were quite a bit called against Cincy.

Also, (this next part is a correct me if I’m wrong) the play calling sounded like it was excellent for the field conditions. Lots of running plays, a bunch of dump offs, short/medium routes to the back and other receivers. They threw a few deep balls to keep the defense from creeping up. The receivers sounded like they were getting open and levels were spaced out.

They also did pretty well in the red zone, besides the Ford fumble.

I still didn't like how much work Ford got-and he was in a couple times when we were going in to score, he fumbled inside Cincy's 20.
Chubb had 18 carries for 5.89 yards per carry
Ford had 15 carries for 2.4 yards per carry
We need to get our horse out there-

I think Conklin's injury played a factor in Chubb's lack of reps. I'm guessing their thinking was "Why risk a stud who frankly doesn't need more reps on a slippery field, when Cinci's O did nothing the entire game?" Plus, Ford could clearly use the reps without even considering his missed time. He's not had many live NFL snaps. They need to figure out if they need a better backup come crunch time.

Yes, I agree. We don’t need to go full throttle with Chubb this early in the year when we are winning and the D was killing it. Those extra carries, pass catches, pass blocking, and hits will add up and take a toll on his body towards the end of the season. I’ve liked how Stef has handled Chubb the past few seasons by keeping him fresh. While he plays like a machine, we have to remember he’s still human….well, at least I think he is.

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Ok, I am going to point out that a lot of Ford's carries were after Cincy had conceded the victory and the Browns were running out the clock and Cincy knew it. 8 or 9 in the box.

The other thread points out that Burrow had less than 2 seconds to get the ball out. That is why his stats are what they are and it is a good thing. We can recall when were were on the other side of that coin, and it changes the game.

https://twitter.com/Nate_Tice/status/1701289516848521223


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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Originally Posted by jfanent
Watson outperformed Burrow, Allen, Rodgers and Mahommes.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Did you consider him as having a good performance in the passing game? I didn't think so.

Nope, just a better performance than the rest of that group, and the only one of them to lead his team on a game clinching drive. I'll take that every week. Now run along and ask and answer another question to yourself.


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I was asking you. No seemed to be the answer despite the following editorial comments of zero substance. Now maybe you can run along.


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Since you are out of country I doubt you saw that Watson was having full body cramp as well in the first half. He got IV’s at halftime and seemed to play somewhat better in the second half. I think that and the soaked ball were big contributors to his bad play. I can’t say it wasn’t any of his fault. Some of it definitely was. Hopefully he has better conditions In Pittsburgh so we can see where he really stands.


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Ah, I forgot about that! I only knew about it, bc after the game I saw a twitter video of DW talking about the IV.

Thank you for bringing that up.

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j/c...


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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...


I was looking back through the draft thread a couple days ago. I remembered we were all a little down on this pick... didn't have a 1st round pick, traded down, then drafted a "slow" CB?? Many of us thought he would be moved to safety. Some said this was a wasted pick, etc, etc...

Right now it looks like he is quietly becoming pro bowl caliber. He's a huge piece in this scheme when you have three dudes that can lock down on the back end.


This, however, is pure gold, particularly considering the video above:

Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
His measurables look a lot like Richard Sherman's. That's probably not who he is yet, but that's the aspiration. He's young and didn't have a Myles Garrett providing pressure for him at Mississippi State.

Hopefully we've finally got a staff that can develop players.


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Bull knows stuff. That’s why I love when he comes in Browns discord chats


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j/c,
[YouTube:video]
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Jones’ PFF pass blocking grade on Sunday was very high.
His run blocking score was awful. In the 30’s if I remember correctly. He’s got to get that cleaned up.


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j/c

On the subject of #4: I saw a lot of lackluster play by our QB, but there was a moment that showed me what we might expect, going forward.

At 5:13 in Q1, CLE tried some trickeration.

2nd and 4. CLE on CIN 43.

CLE lines up. Backfield shift, Watson steps to his right; Chubb sets up behind C.
Chubb takes the snap, Watson curls in front of him. Chubb hands off the ball to 4, and sets up to defend, looking to his right. 4 curls back 5 yards into a clean pocket, and launches a pinpoint pass from Brownie The Elf's back foot to the CIN 3-yard line. Incomplete. Had Marquis Goodwin simply maintained his route, instead of pulling up, then readjusting, that pass would have landed on time, in place, and right in his hands. Where no defender had a chance.

Another play, off the top of my head: that Q1 timing/placement pass he delivered to DP-J was as fine a pass as you'll ever see.

These are the kind of flashes that keep me interested. He's not consistent.
He showed poor accuracy on many passes.
My Boy and I were watching a slo-mo replay of an incompletion, and we said, in unison: "His mechanics sucked-" then, busted out laughing. Even we football dummies could see how poor his form was on that play.

I wasn't a fan of the hire when it happened.
I wasn't a Baker Boy, either- so the trade/acquisition was just another interesting wrinkle in my 50-year attachment to this hobby.
I shonuff wasn't a fan of the baggage he dragged to our address.

Still think I've kept a cool head about this young man... and my jury's still out.
If he is to return to form, we'll see it in the 2nd quarter of this season. Until then, we'll prob see a heavy dose of Game One, with #24 making grown men cry, and Schwartz's AttackD getting the ball to the O as often as they can.


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If Jones can get that run grade up and maintain that ability to keep the pocket clean (good luck against Watt), we will have something


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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That was a really cool play design.


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Yes, I didn’t know it happened till I saw the post. DW had him deep too.

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Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Yes, I didn’t know it happened till I saw the post. DW had him deep too.

I've seen a lot of people say he should have released it earlier, but I don't know. It seemed liked once he got the ball, he turned, set, and threw pretty quickly. I suppose he could have led him more to the right but a defender was creeping from the other side too. I don't know....


Tackles are tackles.
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