DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ as Palestinian militants launch surprise air and ground attack from Gaza

jc

well, leaflets have been air dropped in Gaza, telling everyone to evacuate.

we might see something in 4KHDR that society isn't ready to see...

I think we’ve seen a lot of what society wasn’t ready to see with this. I’m really getting the impression Putin may have been involved as much as Iran was.

If they are telling people to evacuate (not just shelter) then they must be allowing evacuation, which would be good. I know when we fought in Iraq and were getting ready to invade Falluja we told the civilians to evacuate and they did. Then we invaded and captured the city. My bro fought in that battle.

unfortunately the southern border crossing was closed by Egypt, and surrounding countries dont seem to be interested in taking in any civilians.

Falluja was definitely more militant combat. unfortunately Eve, this might end up having a hell of a lot more civilian causalities, and worse; intentionally.

This is obviously the extreme end of the spectrum. My problem with the BLM stuff discussed earlier (as an example) is that while you can make a compelling argument that they are talking about the Palestinian people and not Hamas and how what's being said is ok or just misunderstood, the lines are just a little too blurry for my liking.

All the leaflets in the world aren't going to matter when you have nowhere to evacuate to. My understanding is that Gaza is jam-packed with humanity and has nowhere to go.

My feelings on the situation have been all over the place. Before this kicked off, I never really understood why Israel could do what it was doing to the Gaza strip and still have the US just tripping over itself writing all those blank checks. I guess I kinda understand the 'why' a little better now... but I'm still believing that Israel should officially bear some responsibility for where we are today (after Hamas is dealt with).

I think a lot of people who have even made any feeble attempt to follow what's gone on in that region over time has understood that all along. I think the reason why now is the time people seem focused on trying to make that point clear is an obvious one. How many Americans never seemed to have tried to distinguish the difference between Islamic Extremists and Muslims? Why didn't they understand the different sects of their religion and the difference in their theologies, teachings and beliefs? It's because nobody bothered to inform them of that.

I think the reason they are trying to make that distinction now is because they want and need people to understand that before Americans confuse the people who support the Palestinian people from the people that support Hamas. That way they are not confused into labeling them as all being the same like they did Muslims after 9/11.

I wish them good luck. Getting people to understand and believe that distinction in the times we live where political rhetoric and division rule the day I highly doubt that distinction will be accepted by many.

No defense for beheaded babies. Like I said, they do this crap then hide in their own populations. What are you supposed to do, look the other way? NOPE. Every Palestinian death that is about to occur is 100% on HAMAS hands. I hate to see innocents killed too, but I’m with Israel on this one. Do whatever you have to do. I remember the 911 feeling to well to ignore the terrorism.

I'm trying to come up with a good argument against "do what you have to do" in this situation because that equates out to a WHOLE bunch of innocents getting caught in crosshairs... but it's really hard to do given what's transpired and what we know about the enemy.

Once again there's a difference in supporting Palestine in terms of its citizens and supporting Hamas. But I can understand why some consider that dicey.

jc

it has begun

Israel calls on 1.1 million Gazans to evacuate south, in order UN warns is ‘impossible’

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-friday-intl-hnk/index.html

the most advanced technology in human history has been created by the desire to kill as many people as possible in the most effective manner.

there's nothing glorious or cool or amazing about this. above all else from a global point of view, this is just another example of how primitive we really are, despite pretending to be civilized.

Friday the 13th. society can't even have fun with the date anymore, cause now it's really cursed.

if they start shelling the entire area at night, whatever moral high ground they have goes out the window. better at least stick to ground forces.

I won't address your rational that "Well they killed Israeli babies so it's okay to kill their babies" line of speech but I will inform you that there are no baby Hamas terrorists.

In a area twice the size of Philadelphia and a population of 2.3 million people, where is it exactly that you think they can hide and not be among the population? It's a mass of humanity squeezed into a small area. I understand the point you're making but I'm not sure how you think that it's avoidable given the circumstances.

"We have primordial brains, medieval institutions, and godlike technology"
-Tristan Harris

The problem nowadays, which is where modern media gets it's exploits is that the viewing public is horribly simple-minded. There can be no complex situations. Everything has to be broad-brush black and white. For instance, if I tried to tell a lot of my immediate family that not all Muslims are bad and that Israel can do bad things too sometimes, I think their heads would explode.

You can be my moral compass when I ask you to be that. Until then, I don’t need your approval to think or say whatever the hell I want to. Thanks for playing.

I’m not that guy. I know the arguments of both sides. I know the complexities. I’m just done caring about Muslim extremists and the Muslim populations that allow them to exist within. Frankly, I don’t give a damn at this point what Israel does. But it sounds like they will do the same kind of rinse and repeat they have always done. At least all the people not under threat of attack can feel good about how far Israel goes in it’s vengeance… Until next time.

I know if my family was under that threat, their civilian casualties would not matter much to me.

On this board you are allowed to voice your opinions. I voiced mine. Too bad that bothers you. That's never stopped me before and it won't be stopping me now.

I do understand the tactic of how you avoid actually discussing topics like the plague while attacking the messenger though. It's a tried and true method you use when you got nothing or have nothing of substance to reply with. It's a rather lazy method of avoiding things.

That's what people said after 9/11. "Kill em'! Kill em' all!"

Considering what the Jewish communities of the world have been through for centuries they have that right.

The right to wipe out innocent civilians and children? To commit the same atrocities, only in a less personal way, with bombs rather than guns and knives, which they claim are such terrorist acts and atrocities when done by others?

And here it is you guys claim I'm not the one who's not liberal enough. Innocent civilians, women and children being slaughtered is never someone's "right" no matter what they've been through. And maybe you should look at both sides of the coins in this situation and realize that Israel has played a role in creating the volatility on the region. You seem to be claiming that what the Nazi's did to the Jews is at least part of the justification for them to slaughter Palestinian citizens. It's not.

And if I had to make the call, with my family and people at risk, that’s what I would say. Scorched earth. But luckily, that’s not on me. So, I won’t be making that call. I’ll be just like you, watching it unfold.

I didn’t point anything toward you.

Maybe the evil powers to be in the world will stop killing innocent Jewish people indiscriminately. Until then an eye for an eye. Besides they have been given warning to civilians to move south well in advance. So they have these warnings unlike what Hamas has given to Israel. But keep up there on your horse bro.

More civilians were killed in Gaza before the warning than were killed in Israel. Your eye for an eye is biblical. Claiming one side is evil for killing women and children while making excuses for the other side to do the same thing is just sad. It will be better I think once ground forces go in because at that point they can see which targets they are killing. They can tell a child from a fighter. They can tell a woman from a fighter. They can tell an old man or old woman from a fighter. Just dropping bombs and "killing them all" is far less personal and kills all of them indiscriminately.

They’ve had warning to move south. Jewish people have been massacred for centuries. Enough! And if they couldn’t see that Israel would be coming in hard, well I don’t know what to say. They’ve been living under Hamas rule for decades. It’s where they want to be.

I guess that means you wanted to be ruled with trump as president as well? They NOW have a warning to move south. They didn't before. How many women and children in Nazi Germany were responsible for the Holocaust? Jewish people haven't been being killed by women and children for centuries.

There are 2.3 million people in Gaza which is roughly twice the size of Philadelphia. The borders of surrounding nations are closed. There is no escaping from Gaza. Israel has a blockade surrounding the entire place. You used to be pretty good at recognizing the difference in what a government was saying in comparison to what they were doing. You seemed to have developed a blind spot in that area,

But let's not forget who is responsible here. Hamas. They showed they don't care about the Palestine's being killed. They even use the citizens as human shields. This is not Israel's fault. They must utter destroy Hamas. When this is over Hamas should cease to exist. Hamas are the Nazi's here. They acted like Nazi's and they need to pay that same price.

Jc

Man, RIP to the kid who just got killed by a knife attack by some anti-Muslim crazy in Illinois.

It's always sad to me when people become the things they despise.

I find it odd that you along with others seem to wish to lump the citizens of Gaza with Hamas which attacked Israel. Hamas is certainly the instigator here and committed major atrocities against the citizenry of Israel. Israel has no choice but to try and wipe out Hamas. But for you who may have missed this, Hamas has a complicated system of underground tunnels under the city of Gaza. By and large they are hiding under ground. All of these bombs Israel is crushing the city of Gaza with is killing thousands of Palestinian civilians and having very little impact on the people which attacked Israel.

And I'll pose this same question to you that I've posed over and over again with no reply. Gaza is roughly twice the size of Philadelphia with a population of 2.3 million people. Where is it you think Hamas can be that there isn't a large population of civilians? This entire "human shield" reasoning makes perfect sense if this wasn't an area densely populated. But it is. There isn't any place that Hamas could be within that territory that a large population of civilians don't exist.

I have no sympathy for Hamas. But the slaughter of innocent civilians be they Israeli or Palestinian is a different matter all together.

At least if Israel went in with ground troops their soldiers could identify who the hell they're killing. They could actually kill their enemy. I certainly support them doing that. However, to level half of the city, killing mainly civilians while knowing your actual enemy is safely hiding under ground? I'm amazed that people especially such as yourself who seem to have a strong christian faith support that. Well no, really I'm not. The Jesus I have in my life prevents me from doing so.

Israel is leveling buildings that have housed terrorists. I feel bad for the citizens whether they deserve what is happening or not. Did you not see the celebrations in the streets when Hamas was parading the dead soldiers and kidnapped Israeli citizens. Bottom line is Israel has given up land for peace many times. When Palestine wanted to talk peace, Israel was there. Each and every time it was Palestine that walked away from the table. Israel has to do what it has to do to ensure its people do not ever have that kind of atrocities done to it's citizens ever again. I support Israel in their quest to eliminate their terrorists. When civilians are getting killed it was Hamas that brought this upon them and not Israel.

So it's your contention that leveling blocks upon blocks of Gaza is because that's where the terrorists have been housed? Do you really believe that?

I support Israel wiping out Hamas. I do not support they indiscriminately bomb civilian buildings killing thousands women and children in the process. You need to get it into your mind that those are two separate things.

You only seem to understand one side of the history of this region. It's not all as cut and dry as you're making it sound.

Yes, it is. The Ottoman Empire lost World War 1 and the British gained control. Palestine supported Nazi Germany in Worl war 2 and they lost again. Wars have outcomes just like elections and they have consequences. Palestine supported and lost on both world wars and lost their land. God gave the land to Israel and prophesied it coming back to the Jewish people 2,000 years before it happened again. Israel has been more than accommodating to Palestine even after winning the 6 day war in 1967 and the 1973 Yom Kappor war. They gained land after each invasion by the Muslim people. Then to achieve peace they gave land back that they earned with war victories. They have tried to live peacefully with Palestine. But the people that represents Palestine each and every time walked away from the peace talks. They want nothing less than Israel to not exist. Now Israel has had the worst act of terror in their Countries history and the worst loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust. Israel has the right to ensure their citizens safety. Yes, war is ugly, and it comes with a terrible price, but it is what is needed.

Palestinians elected Hamas to power. Now that they see the decisions Hamas makes and the consequences of Hamas's actions, maybe they will vote them out.

Still making excuses for the slaughter of innocent civilians I see.

They "walked away every time"?

Try looking this up. It seems you either aren't aware or refuse to understand. Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (DOP) in 1993.