DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum When Romeo gets the boot...what kind of coach?

Look to the past for some answers.

Bill Belichick was here and looked like an average to below average coach (36-44)........then he he went to New England and became a genius. Anyone else find that kind of ironic? We don't need a new head coach, we need new players.

Have some of the problems stemmed from RAC? Possibly (and probably) but the guy is only a second year head coach, he doesn't have all the answers. Do I think he's a "great" coach? No, I don't but you don't neccessarily need one to win.

I guess it goes back to the old adage "players win games, coaches lose them." Everyone thinks it's the coaches fault when we lose and the players receive all the credit when we win. It's always been that way and will probably continue to be so. A coach can only put his players in a position to be successful and in my personal opinion, they have for the most part.

Pittsburgh and Baltimore come to mind immediately. If we have guys make one freakin play (Charlie's boneheaded INT in the endzone and sacking Big Ben instead of letting him go) we can chalk up two more victories. New Orleans we complete a 74 yard bomb to open the season that gets called back because of a stupid holding penalty away from the play. Hell, against San Diego we settle for 6 FG's and lose by 7, against Carolina we kick 4 (1 in the red zone, one just outside) and lose by 8. How does RAC have any control over any of this? He's doing the best he can with what he has, which unless you're blind, is a big fat nothing. We should easily have 2-3 maybe even 4 more victories if our PLAYERS just execute. Mo sucked as an OC and so has Davidson. Anyone want to take a guess as to why?

So why havn't we won games? Because the bottom line is that we just absolutely suck where it matters most: the trenches. Guys with no talent are going to make any coach look bad and unfortunately we have a boat load. Right now we're starting as many as 7-10 players that wouldn't even be on the field for any NFL team. These are glorified backups and in some cases practice squad players that are seeing PT because we just don't have anyone else. Name me one coach in the NFL that can win in that/this type of situation....... because I can't think of a single one.

You're right nas, I posted a little while ago, I would like to see once, just once, our starting QB, FINISH the year he started healthy.

I can't remember the last time that happened in cleveland. When we fix the lines, we will start winning games. I am not trying to mirror what you said but it is so true.

when the hell has he had any head coach experiance?????.please let me know because as far as I could find he hasnt.... D coordinators arent responsible for clock management.....You have to remember when he took this team over we were no better then we were in 99, if you dont realize that then nothing I will say will make a diffrence but lets take a look at a couple things

1. Rebuilding a roster
2. Instituting a whole new defense
3. Dealing with players accidents, coach and player clashes

and the list goes on and on. Realisitcally this is his 2nd complete year here
if you think 3 months is good enough preparation time to evaluate what is essentially an expansion team before you take the reigns you're flat out wrong

He doesnt have much to do with the O and last time I checked we couldnt score more then 17 pts a game consistently..... Im not saying its not his fault but every new hire needs time to adjust and excel in certain aspects of jobs they arent familiar with....thats just pretty much status quoe in ANY job, especially one that comes with as much responsibility...

and for me to say Im not as frustrated as you are is a lie....but I do understand Rome is not built in a day and as a manager I understand there is a learning curve for both PLAYERS and MANAGEMENT. Consistencey breeds success neither player personell or coaching has been consistent, for god sakes our WR coach was HC at one point!

Give the man another year or 2, get an O-line and a D-line secured, then we can start to worry about bad coaching. When 3 out of your 5 O-linemen would be back-ups anywhere else, and you NT and DE have combined ages of somewhere around 70 you're going to have these results........not saying coaching cant impact it but the talent level on this team is pretty low.........



and let me guess you want us to take T.Smith with our 1st rnd pick too huh?

All of your points well taken regarding the players, but


It doesnt look like RAC will sniff 36-44 in 5 seasons but I never saw a bellichek coached team in cleveland look as unprepared and listless as I have seen this team.

Isnt anything ironic about the fact that Bellichek got an opportunity to be a head coach waaaaaaaay befoe RAC did even though they both came from the Parcells coaching tree?

I mean Bellichek was the youngest before Mangini if I am not mistaken, maybe there is a perfectly good reason that RAC had to wait that long. Maybe he isnt that good.

I am not object to keeping him but i sure as hell wont cry if he gets gets canned.

Then you missed some games from that era, Dear God, it was awful.

Sorry Nas but i disagree.

You are throwing out all kinds of excuses as to Why Romeo Sucks but you havent said anything about why he doesnt suck.

Seriously what makes anyone think he is the least bit competent.
Is it his brilliant gameplans? Like never envisioning a hurry up offense by the Bengals.

Is it his great halftime adjustments? like all of our 2nd half performances.

Is it his clock managment? You know take a time out before u decide to punt.

Is it how he handles his players? Edwards blowing up on the sideline

Maybe its the answers he gives when he talks to the media? Like my favorite about why things are going bad "I dont know"

Maybe its his motivational speeches in preparing to face our most hated rivals? One win ever 2 years, I bet they are shaking in their shoes
C

Yeah, I guess I just don't understand how some people still don't see it. Just look at our last 5 drafts:

2006: LB, LB, WR
2005: WR, FS/SS, QB
2004: TE, SS
2003: C, LB, FS
2002: RB, WR, C

In 5 years we have taken 2, count em 2, trench players on the first day of the draft and they were at the same damn position (center) in back to back years. 2 out of 15 players......kind of puts it in to perspective huh? I would go out on a limb and say we're the only team to do that. If there's another one, I'm sure they're one of the bottom feeders as well (and have been for several years).

Now lets look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Let's lok at Philadelphia's drafts in that same time span:

2006: DT, OT, DE (and OG in round 4)
2005: DT, WR, LB
2004: OT, FS
2003: DE, TE, WR
2002: CB, SS, RB

They took 6 trench players out of 14 selections: 2(OT), 2 (DT), 2(DE). So they're selecting trench players at a near 50% rate on the first day the last 5 seasons. Their first two rounds the last 5 years......5 of 10 players have been on the offensive or defensive line. Think they know how games are won? Protecting the passer, stopping the run and rushing the passer. Hell, they took 4 trench players in a row in 2006.......I think I would wet my pants if we ever did something like that. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Look at their 1st round selections specifically.....the last 4 years in a row they have gone DE, OT, DT, DT. There was a rumor that we studied Philadelphia when we re-evaluated the franchise two seasons ago? Give me a break.......we must have been wearing a blindfold.

I missed quite a few after Bernie was dumped but 5 seasons in cleveland....but 36 out of 44 is looking pretty damn good compared to our last 2 seasons.

We did make the playoffs twice under BB if I am not mistaken.

It's amazing me that this thread just took off..well actually it shouldn't..

Ok, look at what kind of team Bill had when he took over HC and then look at Romeo's.

Its kinda futile. People always want someone tangible to blame this time of year whether it makes sense or not.

It all starts at the top. Savage needs continued improvement in this year's offseason. We can't afford more setbacks or changes will be forced whether right or wrong.

Doesn't matter whether we've been around for 7 years or 1. We're still more similar in talent to an expansion team than an established NFL team. Until that's fixed....

Sorry dawg but I havent spent 25 years in the NFL and I am pretty sure that I could have a grasp of clock management after sitting on the sidelines as long as he has.

Most of your points are well taken but he hasnt shown me ANYTHING
- no wins against surperior teams becuase he made adjustments or put together a good scheme.

- no wins in the divisions. NONE, NADA ZERO. Yeah, I know after next year people will say increased his winsa agaisnt divisional opponenets by 200% when we win a couple.

-We brought him in because he was an experienced guy, albeit not with head coaching experience but expereince nonetheless.

He has shown NOTHING to be optimistic about.



I agree with the talent level on the roster but that is going to take awhile...


I am not against taking a QB as one linemen in the first round isnt going to fix squat on this roster. Chances at top QB's dont grow on trees and if RAC & Opie improve this team we may not pick this high again. So we have to consider it, weather it be Troy, Brady or Russel. Take a QB develop him correctly while build the line with the other high picks we will get in round2 & 3 this year and 1st on down next year and do it the right way.

If iwas pimping Trpy Smith it definitley wouldnt be any more ridiculous than pimping a sophmore D-lineman who wasnt able to register a tackle in the biggest game of his teams season.

Branch wont be lining up against the cream puffs from Northwestern & Notre Dame when he gets drafted, he will be goiing against lineman better than the ones that skunked him in columbus.

Don't take this personally but.......I'm just surprised someone who claims to know a lot about football would make such a comment about an interior defensive lineman. I don't mean that in an incredibly mean way, I just thought you understood the game well enough to know that a DT's value has nothing to do with how many tackles he makes.

The guy only had 23 tackles on the season, he must suck huh? How many tackles does Joe Thomas have? Think we should draft him? <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Hell, Thomas gave up a sack against Woodley, the best DE he played all season, he must be junk right? LMAO.

Come on man.......I know the guy took a swipe at you by making the Troy Smith comment but lets think about it for a second. There's a reason Branch is considered a top 10 pick across the board by every NFL scout and it's not because he makes a ton of tackles. He controls, neutralizes and in many cases pushes back the LOS on the inside. He clogs the middle, provides cover for his LB's and safties and lets them run in space and make tackles. Those aren't stats that show up in the box score but players like Branch are essential in making any defense work.

I gotta tell you something. I think you are clueless when it comes to Leon....yet, I agree w/almost every other point you make on the board.

Branch is a very good player, and if Thomas is gone, I hope we draft Branch. He's an excellent d-lineman who is strong at the point of attack and has a great motor.

I also agree that it is kinda hard to judge RAC. And let me tell you....I was the one complaining the most when we hired him over Grimm. I just don't think Savage has given him the right talent in the right positions. It's hard to compete when both lines are getting the [censored] beat out of them.

I think there will be major changes in the offseason. Quite a few coaches are going to lose their jobs. I hear RAC is safe, but I wonder what will happen if we lay another egg on Sunday???

The sad thing is that even though he will almost certainly be here next year, the mob will be on him hot and heavy. He probably won't make it to 2008 because this team will not be ready to compete again next year.

The only thing this thread is missing is a little profootballtalk,com....

lincoln

SAVAGE GETTING CANNED NEXT WEEK?

Last year at this time, former Browns president John Collins was in the process of pushing G.M. Phil Savage out the door. Coach Romeo Crennel and owner Randy Lerner intervened, and Savage stayed.

Not long thereafter, Collins was out.

This time around, there are rumors that Savage could get the shoe next week from Lerner.

Peter King reports on HBO's Inside the NFL that Savage and Lerner will meet after the regular season ends to discuss the future of Crennel. King says he has a gut feeling that Crennel will be let go.

Our sources tell us that both Crennel and Savage are vulnerable.

And that would make sense. It was Savage, after all, who hired Crennel. Why should the G.M. be any less accountable than the head coach? We realize that, traditionally, the G.M. gets at least one mulligan (or, in the case of Matt Millen, two). But both guys should be in the same boat, in our not-so-humble opinion.

Another possibility is that Savage will transition into a scouting-only role, and that a G.M. will be hired to handle the bigger picture. There were reports along these lines earlier in the year, and such an outcome has worked well in New York, where former G.M. Terry Bradway took a step down in connection with the promotion of Mike Tannenbaum.

Yeah, for some reason it's hard to give up on the kid. I really had a huge problem with him when he first came to UM......it's honestly pretty scary how the two situations (first two years at UM, first two years here) have mirrored themselves. Carr hated the kid when he first came to UM......couldn't catch passes he should, couldn't keep his mouth shut and all the while still thought his **** didn't stink. Probably the funniest UM story I ever heard was how Braylon asked Carr to wear the #1 jersey at the start of his Soph season. I guess Carr was in his office talking to one of the coaches, looked at him, laughed and told him to get the hell out of his office. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I think Braylon just needs a swift kick in the ass (ala Carr) and in all honesty, I think the fans gave it to him last Sunday. If he doesn't come around he doesn't come around......but after watching him at UM, I just still get the feeling he will. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part and if I'm wrong, it obviosuly won't be the first time. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sold on RAC at all, but I think another off-season to shore things up combined with a bit weaker of a schedule next year might be enough to satisfy the masses as "improvement" - especially if we can somehow avoid the injury bug that's been plaguing us.

i'm glad lerner is such a fan of stability. who the hell would want a job where your barely have time to establish yourself and are not allowed to make mistakes?

There are some vocal folks who wanna blame savage, RAC, or both. my question is this: your never going to hire somebody good when they have to look over their shoulder constantly and not make any painful decisions.

RAC and savage have both made some bad decisions, but what does lerner expect from two folks who are in their roles for the first time? they both have to do some growing, hopefully, they'll have the chance.

if savage gets demoted, I can almost guarantee somebody will go after him for a GM position, and have somebody mentor him on the job, which is what that arse lerner should of done in the first place.

Despite all of the Cleveland homers calling for Savages and Romeo head, it would be the worst thing that the team could do.

I think Savage is doing fine. I have my quibbles (looking too far into the furture regarding player development) but I even though I don't agree with all of them, I understand the rational. It takes a few years to get scouting in order, and I believe that Butch had destoryed the scouting department morale. If you want to place example 1 of BD's draft philosphy, look no further than Jeremiah Pharms.

Romeo will probably have to do a bit more with the coaching staff this year. Last years theme was continuity... the first time all the coaches had returned... I think we can do with some shaking of the trees, but I am not going in another coach direction.

Who said anything about Woodley?? I like Woodley much more than Branch.





NasI dont disagree that guys like Branch dont have a place as a DT on this team but not as the #3 pick and I NEVER said he sucked, ever. I understand that a DT isnt going to put up tackle numbers but ONE would have been nice to see from guy in the biggest game he played in if we are considering drafting him. There is a reason the pundits had Gallery being a stud so their "credibility" doesnt always holdwater.

I like the measurbales as much as anybody else but sometimes you have to consider how they perform against top competition. This isnt an OSU Michigan thing, it just so happens that Lots of folks are pimping this guy and he is from Michigan. I watch every Michigan game every year, their defense looked like the steel curtain against lesser teams this year but when it counted....



I did not see that out of Mr. Branch when it counted the most and I could see how he performed when matched against an team that wasnt completely overmatched..



This thread is about RAC. And I am sorry I just dont see it.

I keep waiting for the game where I say RAC made a difference in a good way instead of looking like he shouldnt be in the position.

This sounds like that artical that was floating around a few weeks/months ago. They probably just found it.
Wonder what the odds of Lerner and Savage having a meeting at the end of every season is?
Savage finally said he couldnt believe he had to actually address it. Looks like more of the same. Toss a statement out there, watch everyone quote you then see what sticks as the media frenzy spreds.
I personally doubt they will can RAC because they are finally getting him some players that fit his needs. I also highly doubt that they fire Savage.
Finally I highly doubt Lerner has a clue on how to run a football team so one never knows he may read that and believe it too.

I would expect that every team has a meeting between the Owner, GM, and HC before going into the offseason.

There should be no surprize here. The only surprize should be the changes that will be forthcoming.

I don't see Romeo and PS out the door. It would be a bad message....

Not to side track this thread but I'll just say Woodley's success (IMO) was as much Branch's doing as his own. That might sound like a complete overstatement but having the benefit of a stud like Branch inside allowed Woodley to take advantage of 1-on-1 matchups on the outside. Don't get me wrong, I think Lamaar is a great player but I don't think he would have sniffed the numbers he did without Branch to his immediate left. A DE just can't do it on his own.

Just look at Jacksonville as a perfect example......it's no coinscidence that any DE that gets in the game can pressure the QB. Why? Because Stroud and Henderson command so much attention. When an offensive line gets pressed at the point of attack it collapses.......need an example, just look at our terrible guard play. When you have players that can pressure the LOS from the inside out, it just destroys an offenses flow, effectiveness. Anyone know who the hell Bobby McCray is on the Jags? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He's a 7th round pick that's probably going to end up with double digit sacks at DE........and it ain't because he's a stud. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway......back to RAC.

Well, this thread may turn out to be prophetic after all...while listening to WKNR this afternoon on the way home, Kenny Roda (who I went to college with & have little regard for) had the NFL Insider Mike Brown (whose opinion I DO respect) on this afternoon. Brown said that word around the league (over the last 48 hours) is that Randy Lerner is furious with the performance of the current regime (Crennel & Savage) and they may be GONE as soon as Monday. I don't have a problem with getting rid of Crennel because he lets the team walk all over him, but I wanted Savage to have ONE more draft. Neglecting the O-Line in the draft may turn out to be Savage's Waterloo.

I would be shocked if this all fell apart this fast. Can't believe there are this many rumors swirling before the season is even over. Especially when I can't think of a single coach (who might even remotely be the answer) that will be available this year. Unless we have the inside track on Tressel, we might as well ride it out untill next year.

Roda is an idiot, and is pretty clueless... WKNR is one sorry ass station for hiring the clowns they do... Roda = jackass... Like he has a clue... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mike Brown? Who the hell is he?

He should be upset with the result of the season, but to start all over again after only two years? Who's going to want to come here in any capacity?

I'm fine with some sweeping changes - hopefully for the better, but not a complete overhaul.

Eventually the finger will be pointing his way even more so if he's not careful.

Unfortunately he's been about as reliable an insider as there has been over the years - as reliable as a rumor mill can be, any way.

Here's hopin' he's wrong on this one.

I know that it's a little hard to fathom what with Romeo having so many years experience in Football,,,, but last year was his Rookie year as HC of anything,,, this is only his second season,, Again, I know it's difficult to accept that as a reason that he's still learning things,,,but it's basically true...

"....I don't have any understanding of why you would start a thread like this now. I really don't get the point."

Well Jules, my point was to ask what kind of coach the team needs whenever it is that Romeo gets canned. Would we want an experienced disciplinarian,an inexperienced disciplinarian or another player's coach who doesn't run roughshod over his team??? You generally see the owner hire the opposite personality of the previous coach. That's all I wanted to discuss but it seems that we prefer to question the poster's motives rather than the different sides of the issue.

[color:"orange"]Just clicking....so basically this is a fire RAC thread...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As for the guy who started the thread...in that future down the road I hope its one of our asst. coaches and we continue the process.

Personally I don't think we are canning anyone and we will turn the Browns around. Talent is coming...we have done a lot in the last 2 season. We are nowhere completed. Next year we will be more talented hopefully we also won't have a repeat on the Injuries we had. Surely if RAC has a below .500 season I don't think he will be here. But we should be more competitive with the infusion of Year 3 talent and the maturity of those already here. No predictions of exact record I just surmize it will be 8 wins or more. And we will build onward from that.

When all is said and done I hope RAC has a Championship under his belt when he retires and also we will continue the Dynasty by hiring his handpicked replacement.

I love his commitment to a long term beterment of this team.
I love how he wants his rookies to learn the game before putting them out there even if that means losing out on their natural talents for a season rather than throwing them and getting the most out of their athleticism but retarding their maturity into the NLF game. I think he has been consistant with this with one exception that is.

I love how he is a honest person.
I love the way is his tough but not in public never pointing a finger on individual players always taking the responsibility.

I love his D. And want to see us run it to perfection as we gain experience within the system. As well as gain some more talent. It will be fun to have an awesome D here.

Well I know thats just me...this season is over. In the long run we should benefit the fact that we went 4-12 rather than 7-9 or 8-8. Our young talent is still here to mature and we will be getting some great pickups in the draft. We also have what? 20-30 mil in cap space.
Maybe a stud OLman
Maybe a Turner at RB
Maybe a top CB
???
We should be gaining something + the draft.

Me I'm going to anxiously wait for the off-season and then training camp to come and brighter 07 will be upon us.

JMHO

I am not sold on RAC at all ; Having said that look at what Savage has given him to work with .. Coleman , Druzzi , Shaffer , Charlie , Anderson , Wright , Harrison , the mouth and hand man BE. Dorsey & Dorsey .. shoot the list gos on and on .. Nobody could win with this junk ! Oh lets not forget Fiske ... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> , Stewart , Dunkins

Those numbers are sick, i want to print it out and staple it to Randy Lerners front door. <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

It really is silly we have only taken TWO olinemen when it has been an area of need for so long, what makes it worse is that they were bothcenters.

What makes it worse to me, is we could have signed Bentley to gaurd and kept Faine at center. Yes I do say that in hindsight. But Faine has finally finished a year. And in the Giants game I watched him take on both DTs and win more than once, True I never saw that when he was here, but maybe we gave up on him to early.

First of all...I'm sorry, but knocking a DT for not having any tackles in a game? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Also, if I'm not mistaken, didn't he have a pick in that game?

Lastly...yes, it is more ridiculous. Way more ridiculous. In fact, any pick that isn't on either line would be ridiculous.



Neither will Troy Smith...

RAC will not get the boot! <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

I sometimes wonder about all you so called Browns fans! <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

Savage and RAC are going to build this team right...........it does take time!

I think this is what is more likely to happen and I am willing to bet Phil has no problems with this type of move as long as he gets total control over the draft process. It would be funny as hell if Collins came back as President. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

We should do something similar with Romeo and the HC job. Let him take a little lesser role over the offense (like none) and let him focus on defense, special team and talking to the media.

You agree with the talent level on the roster, but you expect us an inferior team to be able to beat superior teams based on the HC making adjustments or implementing a "good scheme?"

Most of the people clamoring for his head fail to grasp the fact that this team was GUTTED. Just last year, we were once again reduced to the expansion team level. Past botched drafts by the Policy/Clark tandem followed by the circus act of Butch Davis caused the new kids on the block to have to try and reinvent the wheel, and they had to start with a square rock.

Yes, RAC has coaching experience, but the HC gig is a different ballgame. Opie is new at his gig.....they instituted a change from the 4-3 to the 3-4. A lot of people thought we were going to come into this season and win 10 to 12 games, and these are more than likely the same people calling for their heads. If you thought this before the season, then there isn't much hope for you, as it simply wasn't going to happen.

Many people have mentioned "continuity" within this thread, and that is a vital and proven component of a successful organization. There is no magic fix.....hiring Jim Tressel will not magically make this team a contender...it takes planning and continuity.

Savage did not draft OL, but he went out and got FA guys to try and use as patches until things fell into place to draft some fatties. The loss of Bentley was bigger than a lot of people realize......he was the #1 FA OL out there, and he is young, and Savage went and got him. His injury caused a great effect on the OL, as did other injuries.

A coach can only do so much when he has to deal with the talent level that we had on this team plus the injuries.

*sigh* Someone hasn't been paying attention to history.....

Yes, one OL will fix a great deal on this roster. The chances are much much better that we can select a lineman that will contribute as opposed to a QB.

That's already been covered, so I won't touch this one. LMAO


You simply can't make a change for the sake of making a change, and at this point that's all we would be doing and you would then spend the next few years wondering why we are still re-building....

Much better idea. Let's sharpen the focus and streamline the process.

[color:"white"] RAC will not get the boot! [/color]

Not this year. But I wouldn't put any money on him after that.