DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Flacco vs. DeShaun Watson 2023

Just before watson's injury he played well. Nothing appeared "forced". Things appeared to be coming together. Flacco, while I love watching him play and he is doing well, he will be 39 years old next year. That is not a foundation with which to build the future of your team around.

That means a lot coming from you cause I know how you feel about Watson.

There's watson the person then there's watson the player. I try not to allow the way I feel about him as a person to cloud my judgement in regards to watson the player.

You may have hit on something, this could be a simple but expensive. Perhaps the Browns need to stop with the inexperienced guys like DTR and spend on a guy like Flacco and yes, Watson starts. If something happens we have Joe to take over.

I have no problem going into 2024 season 1) Watson 2) Flacco 3) DTR. Sign me up. Flacco is a heck of an insurance policy. I really was hoping Brissett would have come back to be Watson's back up last year. The Browns went 4-7 in his starts, but they easily could have been 7-4. With this defense they probably would have been 7-4 in his starts.

I don't like starting this whole thing back up again, but I believe Brissett will be available, and I highly doubt Flacco will be. I just find it hard to believe teams watching what Flacco is doing right now and not a single team throws starter-level money at him.

That said, what I believe is your larger point is totally valid. A contending team needs a capable backup. We lucked out bigly with Flacco.

I understand what you’re saying but if Joe had to go through training camp and a full schedule he might not be as good as he’s been for us mainly because he’d be more beat up and his age. Just an observation.

That's a point many people aren't thinking of.

Actually a few of us have already thought about it and posted about it. Yet at the same time the NFL is desperate at the QB position. With the way Flacco is playing it wouldn't surprise me in the least if an NFL team took a chance on rolling with him as their starter next year. To me it's more about who has a team with a HC that is willing and able to work in, and with a pocket style QB.

About the training camp comment by Fort and Pit, yep also the secondary part of it - b/c of just playing the past few games only, teams have very limited film on Flacco with the Browns. Of course, they have 5 games now. However, it wasn't a season's worth of tendencies or etc.

I’d love to have flacco back next years too, but we have a 230 mil anchor around our necks that says NOPE.

But maybe Joe will see the opportunity to earn another ring and give us a discount to be backup to a lessor QB.

Ah, forgot to add to the second part.

Agreed Pit, I've seen it brought up the past few weeks about re-signing Flacco.

The basic answer is we basically already went through this scenario last year with Brissett. Sure, it would be nice to re-sign him to back up DW. However, chances are this is our only season we see him in a Browns uni.

I agree with you for more than one reason. The first reason is I believe he will get a legitimate shot to win the starting job elsewhere which would get him a bigger payday and give him another shot to play as the starter. Secondly after leading us to the playoffs this season I don't think this FO wants to create a QB controversy going into next season if watson doesn't come out guns a blazing. That would be a mess that they probably feel the team doesn't need. I just hope they have a competent backup in place next season. If they had done so this season the odds are pretty good they could have won the division. Not that I'm complaining about making the playoffs but when you see an obvious mistake that leaves room for improvement I believe it should be expected that you learn from it moving forward.

Good post Pit.

The "secondly" reason, in my opinion is a big reason too. Heck, just look on here there are a few that brought up about keeping Flacco next year and getting rid of DW, lol.

I understand it though, we all are riding high on this awesome season.

I get it too. Flacco has helped bring a feeling to people and the team that this team is capable of anything. That's a feeling that I believe people haven't had in a very long time. For me it's perfectly understandable that people wouldn't want to risk losing that belief and that feeling.

Interesting..........

Passing TD's this season.

Joe Flacco 13 (in five games)

New York Giants 13

Panthers 13

Titans 12

Steelers 12

Jets 11

YEAR TEAM G ATT COMP PCT YDS AVG LNG TD INT 1st 1st% 20+ SCK SCKY RATE
2023 Cleveland Browns 6 171 105 61.4 1115 6.5 59 7 4 52 30.4 12 17 85 84.3
2022 Cleveland Browns 6 170 99 58.2 1102 6.5 46 7 5 53 31.2 12 20 106 79.1
2020 Houston Texans 16 544 382 70.2 4823 8.9 77 33 7 221 40.6 69 49 293 112.4
2019 Houston Texans 15 495 333 67.3 3852 7.8 54 26 12 191 38.6 47 44 257 98
2018 Houston Texans 16 505 345 68.3 4165 8.2 73 26 9 202 40 51 62 384 103.1

Average TD/INT per game in Houston (2018-2020) - 1,8/0,6 (85/28)
Average TD/INT per game in Cleveland (2022-2023) - 1,17/0,75 (14/9)

Average PTC/season in Houston - 68,6%
Average PTC/season in Cleveland - 59,8%

Average RATE in Houston - 104,5
Average RATE in Cleveland - 81,7


Deshaun Watson isn't any longer the same player that we saw in Houston! That's a fact and the stats prove it.

We talk about a 20% drop in performance and especially his TD/INT per game has fallen of a cliff with a almost 50% reduction. That's huge numbers for a guy who's only 28 years old.
With a shoulder injury to come back from we have absolutely no idea what kind of player we will see in September 2024.


I don't think we will ever going to see the Deshaun Watson that we saw between 2018-2020. It's very rare that a elite athlete on the highest level fully recover after three years of steady decline.

I would love to see DW improve to his highest level, unfortunately, every time he showed signs, the injury bug reared it's head.

I have no idea what to expect from him next year, and really neither does anyone else. Time will tell.

I would also love to have Joe back, but as someone else posted, with teh value placed on QBs, I expect he can demand more than the Browns can/will pay.

Maybe we can get him some NIL money? Is there a "Sloppy Joe's" fast food place in Cleveland to fit the bill?

[img]https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=751504380179909&set=a.648352020495146&__cft__[/img]

I think that there is something to this. It is beginning to feel a little like the Bernie days. Cleveland is first and foremost a Browns Town and always has been and we have not been able to get up for very much in the last 25-30 years. The one year we had a shot-we go into pittsburgh and take away a playoff game in front of what 12,000 people and pretty much everybody else is in their living room watching the game because of covid.

Joe really seems to be liking this one more chance-and he keeps bringing up what everybody that he has come in contact with in Cleveland have been super awesome-and he really thinks it is cool being able to do this in front of his kids-I don't know if he would want starter money to come back next year-I don't know how many other teams are looking to ignite a starter that is playing like crap with a mega deal-I know that there is already talk of where Baker and Russell Wilson are going next year but....

If Flacco goes out and gets us a couple wins in the playoffs, the lid is going to come off this place.

I agree. Screw nest year. My only focus is what we do over at least the next 2 game. After that if we get that, 1 game at a time.

It's like when the Cavs won the championship. We went down 3 games and everybody was all uptight about having to win 3 games. Teams can't win 3 games at a time, but they can win 1 game at a time. I kept saying just win this next game. Don't worry about having to win the two after that.

I see desperation finally kicking in.

That makes this team special to me. The fact that they think they can go toe to toe with anyone and win, while actually pulling some of the biggest upsets of the year. We were literally giving QBs career bad stats early on. And did it several times this year. I don’t think a single QB in the playoffs wants to face the Browns. This team has exceeded all expectations to this point. So, they might as well go win it all now. What a profound statement that would be, dominating the playoffs.

This and one other post telling us how Flacco's going to regress are your only posts in the last 3 weeks. You're really butt hurt over the Browns doing well, aren't you?

Constant pressure with 4 guys is such an equalizer in the playoffs

The stats gives you an indication of his future potential abilities. (That's the main answer to your post.) One really good game in three seasons when you earn 40M+/year it's actually a testament of failure, no matter the circumstances.

You use his 12 not even consecutive games as an excuse of his performances when the reality is the total opposite.

Not playing in 2021 and 2022 is totally his own fault. Multiple female witnesses has charactirize him as a man with a hidden agenda. A respectable judge have labeled him in a written statement as a lier. His controversy with the Houston Texans can't be ignored and it grossly questioning his decision making. Overall it's not totally wrong to suspect he's a "rotten apple".

Multiple respectable journalists, TV hosts and others has big question marks around his character. Do you really think that everybody is wrong in that assessment based on all the evidence? The evidence is there for all to see.

I suspect that you will dismiss all this because it doesn't suit your (and many others) agenda but many of us think that being a respectable leader and the face of the franchise involves more than just throwing a ball on the field.

Compare how the national media and rivaling supporters sees Joe Flacco. He's on everybody's lips and it's only nice words. A stark difference to how most narratives was around Watson. Why is that?

Not wanting to extend this debate because like you I want to love living in the moment. DW and his contract don't concern me one bit at the moment ... that said I do hate seeing people posting DW was 5-1 this year. It's an accurate statement but belies the fact that in three of those game the total points scorwd by the other team- combined - was 6 points. In 2 of the other games I thought Dw played very well.... one of those 2 games he was exceptional.

2023 playoff bound and Joe F is our QB and I think we'll have a chance to win any/every game.

Why the meanness? I'm excited over Flacco's performance as most are but there's no one here that can honestly say they expected what Flacco has done. As far as this post, I'm not the creator but just the messenger. Are you disputing the facts in the post? The despairing point is Watson keeps getting credit for the Colts win when he left the game with 3:03 left in the 1st Qtr and the Browns losing 14-7. Clearly that win should have gone to PJ but not credited due to not starting. That aside, reality says Watson was 4-1 not 5-1 but if it makes you feel better for him to get unearned credit so be it.

I'm not butt hurt in the least. In fact, besides the fact that I'm as excited as everyone else with this turn around, I find it refreshing that the organization itself is proving that you do not have to have an elite top 5 QB to be a Super Bowl competitor. Every game the Browns win with Flacco proves that even more and the questions everyone has had about Watson's ability to perform consistently at an elite top 5 level in 2022 and 2023 remains a huge question mark going into 2024. The ROI for the first 92M has been dismal at best and the Browns threat for the AFC Championship hinges on the play of a non-elite QB with a strong supporting cast on offense and defense. Imagine that!

No matter what opinions anyone on this board has or what agenda they have as Browns fans we should all be thrilled about the play and coaching of this team. We’ve had a few very good seasons before but this year with all of the injuries and adjustments that had to be made it’s been special. I don’t know how far we can go but whatever happens this season has been special. I hope we can continue on this journey. Maybe the greatest Brown ever, MR. Jim Brown, has something to do with this!!!!!

Flacco is the man for the remainder of this season, and hopefully that will extend into February for the Browns.

Come March, however, he is almost certainly going to be a free agent.
There are a couple of very simple and immutable facts that assure this:

1. Watson's Contract guarantees that he is our starting QB in 2024

2. Flacco is playing far too well to not get offered a starting QB gig somewhere else in 2024

There is a team out there that will be sitting on their couches in ten days that feels they are a dynamic QB away; that if they had a QB that could get the ball to their receivers, they'd have been in the postseason. Flacco WILL get an offer.


My fear is that one of those teams looking at him is Pittsburgh.

Only a Hater would start this thread, and topic.

Get the heck out of here, these are the CLEVELAND FREAKING BROWNs, 2023 VERsION,

AND THEY ARE REALLY GOOD,

AND I WANT TO sEE MORE OF THEM.

Flo@uihino, it feels out of character to read naysaying from him as one to be the original poster of this thead, I expected it from a bunch of other sources.

And to address that My signature hates on DW? well, I figure, I watched from 20I3 to 20I8 with so many bad decisions at @B, , and from many years before, too but, I figure if they expected me to wait, <the team< expected me to wait through I and fifteen, and then 0 and sixteen, and then after all of that to give up on Mayfield after a couple years, , that 2 years ain't too long for me to dwell on the @uarterback who brought the team out of , of One thirty one and one, OH MY GOSH, I can't believe that ACTUALLY was their record, what the heck were they doing.

I DON'T CARE, If Watson or Flacco was better than the other one,
THEY BOTH did a few things right,
and the Browns are playing well enough, that I want to see more of what they'll do this year, I know it's new years eve,

This is the year they beat Pitt and Baltimore in BACK TO BACK GAMEs, one on the road,

They almost swept Pittsburgh, < they had a nineteen to ten,or fifteen?, lead in the 2nd half, On the Road on MNF, where no team had won in thirty years at pitt on MNF, and over two dozen outcomes
They almost freaking swept Pittsburgh,

the ONLY reason they didn't sweep Baltimore is b/c they started a rookie fifth round @uarterback in his first ever game against the raven defense, the Browns are
Eleven and Five,
they ought to be Thirteen and Three, or fifteen and one actually, except for seattle, maybe denver,

If somebody wants to hate on the 2023 Browns, wait until after the season ends,

I want to see how far this one goes,

everyone else go away, anyone want to be a front runner go root for KC,

Go Browns

If only, the team weren't in the AFC North where, IMO, they need all seven @uarterbacks, maybe eight,

that they've had, ... they've had seven @uarterbacks since feb, or March of last year, correction of 2023, if I recall correctly,

I think they need all seven, including Driskell, and Dobbs, maybe even Brissett, <good gosh no, imo, ,
and DTR,
and ... PJ Walker
and Watson,
and Flacco,
and Jeff Driskell,

It's the AFC NORTH, do you realize how many players have had a torn Pectoral for the Browns in the last five years?

This game is Brutal, Barbara Streisand brutal,

Cher as supposedly pretty brutal. <now that is brutal.

Lol. You can't even make a positive post without a "but....."

"the organization itself is proving that you do not have to have an elite top 5 QB to be a Super Bowl competitor."

The issue with this statement is Flacco has been basically playing like an elite top 5 QB for the past 5 weeks. Over the past 5 weeks he's been top 5 in many stats, and that doesn't include his key throws and etc in games. He's not putting up PJ Walker stats, he's been putting up top of the line stats through 5. So that contradicts that statement.


The other thing is you and the OP do not like Stefanski for various of reasons. Sticking up for Flacco contradicts all the negative things said about Stefanski. A big part of Flacco playing great is b/c of himself. ALSO, Flacco playing great ball is a reflection of Stefanski putting him (and the offense) in a position to succeed. Don't agree? When has the last time Flacco has played anywhere close to this level he has the past 5 games? It's been many years. How many teams passed on picking him up this year? At least a few...how many I won't assume a number.

This whole thread was about taking a shot at DW. Meanwhile, while you are doing that, you are just showing what a damn good coach Stefanski. Which is the other person you both hate. That is confusing and contradicting. All I am seeing is crap being thrown at the wall to see what sticks.

The meme about Flacco vs DW and showing the contracts is silly. You could take Flacco vs Burrow, Rodgers, Wilson, or most of the NFL QBs and show that "gotcha" moment. We are winning games, about to make our third appearance in 20+ years and a couple are more concerned about sucker punching DW and keeping him down than being stoked about the team. DW and his contract have no bearing on teams culture and the rest of this season. When next year hits, his contract won't mean a whole lot either, b/c Berry is a damn good GM and knows how to work contracts and will still bring in players to fill holes.