DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum When Romeo gets the boot...what kind of coach?

And what is the process as it stands right now? How can it be streamlined to ENSURE success?
I prefer to let the guy writing the recipe and is cooking the meal to go and buy the ingredients as well.......

I'd rather have Phil evaluating talent rather than pushing paper.

Gotta push paper to have a plan to follow......gotta be on the same page with the coach.

Savage will not sit still for that I don't think,,, and if it happened this year after only 2 years on the job, I wouldn't either,, I'd tell Randy where he could stick the job..

Maybe it is just my opinion but, Randy Lerner, through no particular fault of his own, handed Savage and RAC a stacked deck and all the fans out there are going nuts after just two seasons... not fair at all.

When he was hired Savage told you and RAC confirmed it later when he was hired, that this team needed lots of work,,, The first year was just finding out what they had and the second year was trying to get rid of those parts that didn't fit long term and get some of those that will,.,.,,

It's a process,, the results of which haven't excited any of us fans much.. but it's still a process..

Those that advocate wholesale changes every year are thinking with thier hearts and not thier heads,,, there is a time to make changes,,, it's just that we aren't there yet,,,

Okay fine.. we'll do it your way.

*LOL*

I'm still waiting to hear what the current process is? I find it funny when people say "we should do it this way instead" without even knowing what the current way is!

What is the current process and how can it be effectively streamlined to ensure success?

Take your time, I'm going to bed......nighty-nite! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm not advocating wholesale changes.. I'd just rather have an bureaucrat deal with administrative stuff and have Savage focus on football.

If thats all he does now.. then great, don't change a thing. If he fools around with the details of the dental policy for the employee benefits, then I think we are wasting his time. It's just my opinion.. it doesn't mean much and it's not catalysmic or anything.

lerner is doing the dental plan type stuff, savage is already running the football side of things. when collins got canned, randy stepped into his job.

All too many times people are promoted beyond their expertise and thus not as effective in their promoted role (no matter how long they stay at it) as they were in their previous role. Many times it's because they LIKED their previous role...which seems like it could be the case with Savage. He seems to LIKE to be on the road watching players and DOESN'T like sitting in the office. If there needs to be a scribe to do the office work for him, then so be it.
We should have people doing what they do best.
MHO

Well since you asked .We need somebody who can turn Dawg turd players into best of show. We need somebody to lead us to the promised (super bowl) land. Only one name comes to mind........Moses!.... Moses and his staff.
Are they under contract somewhere? .;) Lets give the coach a break and get better players. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I hope Lerner has no part of this program other than cheering for them and signing the checks, he isn't an owner like Jones who actually know a bit about football (played ball at University of Arkansas) instead of just being a business man.

Crennel needs to hush the huddle
Thursday, December 28, 2006
Bud Shaw
Plain Dealer Columnist

So the Browns' huddle is home to more voices than a haunted house.

This offense has been such a well-oiled machine over the past four months. Who knew?

A few days before the final game of the season - hold your applause - coach Romeo Crennel says a young quarterback has to learn to not let the campaigning of receivers influence where he throws the ball.

For the sake of this discussion, we'll give the lobbying pass catchers names. Let's call one Braylon, the other Kellen - although we all know our humble heroes would never live in a quarterback's ear and risk muddling his decision-making by calling for the ball play after play.

What Crennel didn't say is that a new head coach - even an older new one - should establish his own authority in a way that would benefit the young quarterback and the rest of the team alike.

Say enough already.

Tell the squeaky wheels they're doing more harm than good. Put a lid on it, sooner than later - later being the next to last game of the season.

A NFL huddle doesn't need to be as quiet as a church service. But it should never be allowed to become what the Browns' has resembled at times - the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

A veteran QB would have squelched the hard selling from Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow Jr. earlier or at least not let it affect his reads. Better, he would've saved everybody else in the huddle an incessant ringing of the ears.

Coaches like when veterans help enforce policy with younger players. Crennel wouldn't be the first to hope for that. But the Browns purposely didn't sign a proven veteran to compete with Charlie Frye or even one to counsel him to ignore the magpies playing wide receiver and tight end, respectively.

Frye had two offensive coordinators. Grand total years of play calling: one. He didn't enjoy the support of a veteran NFL quarterback coach, either.

In that case, it's incumbent on the head coach to lend a hand if the huddle isn't all it should be. The hand should be clenched in a fist if necessary. Maybe that will come next year for Crennel.

Winslow began the season acting out his frustration and unhappiness toward offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon. Three months later, Crennel had words of what he called "encouragement" with Winslow on Sunday after similar gesturing toward backup quarterback Derek Anderson.

Winslow flailed his arms after one play in which Anderson threw in another direction. Anderson soon dropped back looking for Winslow. One pass glanced off Winslow's fingers for an interception. Another lofted for Winslow was slightly overthrown and also picked off.

"Everyone wants the ball, but you as the quarterback have to be able to dish the ball to all of these guys to keep them satisfied," Crennel said Tuesday. "When you get to the point where, 'I need to appease this guy' . . . that is when we have problems develop."

Receiver Joe Jurevicius was lost in the offense for a while. Apparently, he wasn't demanding enough. He ran his routes and caught what was thrown to him without complaint.

"That is what all the receivers should do," said Crennel.

Either Crennel has been hammering that point all year to his offense, or he left it up to his coaches and a quarterback who had five starts entering the season. Either way, the enforcement falls on him.


figured i would add this to the Romeo thread . Nothing new but enjoy

[img]http://[image]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/thepitdog/topdawg.jpg[/img][/image]

especially the 3-4 defense...

We gotta get Troy Smith!


Oh wait, this is a coach thread? I thought I was in a QB thread. Sorry guys, all the moronic threads are starting to run together.

Bill Belichick was the Head Coach of the Browns, and went 11-5 in 1994 ..... with a playoff win ....... then was around .500 (if memory serves) when the move to Baltimore was announced. Pretty much pulled the rug out from under him and the team. Plus, you know there had to be rumblings behind the scenes even before the announcement.

Belichick had to learn how to deal with people ...... and did so in the years between Cleveland and New England. There was nothing really wrong with his philosophies or strategies. Actually, his preference for a strong running game was in perfect accord with my own. He took over a team that was 27th in scoring, and 28th in scoring defense (out of 28 teams, in those days) and improved things over several years. If not for his treatment of Kosar, Belichick might be looked upon by more fans as having been a pretty good coach.

The problem is GM means he is THE manager....and managers have to be invloved in the details.

Sorry....if he is a scout, call him chief of scouting. If he is GM, then he is GM. He can't be any more involved in the player aspect than anything else....even we know they all are.

The point is he can't just ignore the other stuff. I think that was the problem Collins had.....and he should have.

I think Shep is correct....right now, I don't think we have a set 'set-up". It is evolving.

But at some point, I think Lerner is going to have a problem having to pay people more money because they are having to take on more responsibility because the guy he has as GM is really only functioning as super scout while making GM pay.

Sooner or later this will come to a head.

"...Sorry guys, all the moronic threads are starting to run together."

There are no moronic threads ... only moronic posters.

I take the blame for asking the question as to the personality of the next coach...if that is a moronic question...so be it.

I'm still looking for an answer as whether he will be a disciplinarian or another player's coach since RAC will not be here for another decade or so.

umm...take a closer look at the Pat's and their super bowl runs. They did it with the pass...and their young QB calling audibles at the line. While Belleyache was in Cleveland, calling audibles was frowned upon.
Cleveland Bill and N.E. Bill are 2 totally different guys.

[color:"red"]In that case, it's incumbent on the head coach to lend a hand if the huddle isn't all it should be. The hand should be clenched in a fist if necessary. Maybe that will come next year for Crennel.

[/color]

First ..both KW and Braby are as young as Frye..they have not established themselves and if I'm the QB..in the huddle I tell them TO DO THEIR FREAKING JOB and SHUT UP...ran your dang route the right way and if you're the target it'll be there..

IMO, there are hidden complexities. If our organization were even half normal, Savage might have had a better chance coming in. As it was, he basically had to completely rebuild the scouting organization from the bottom up, deciding who stays and who goes along with implementing training programs so that scouts could understand his system. It should have been anticipated that the first 2 or 3 years of his job would be very very heavy on the talent side of the world - we were in total shambles. Untimately, that was the side that Savage would be judged on, after all, so it deserved the bulk of his time.

My hope is that in this off-season, things will be settled in enough to where he'll be more comfortable with his scouting group to where he can begin to take a slightly more hands-off approach - leaving more time for administrative duties. He needs to find a way that he can still have a significant impact on "talent" while not over-loading his own schedule.

JMO, of course - but that's how I'd envisioned things...

Sounds like a definition of manager to me.

Exactly

Peen U keep harping on this area for whatever reason and it's really not a issue in the big scheme..the team still operates without a president but I don't hear anyone mentioning that..maybe thats a piece that needs to be addressed by Lerner?? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"] Anyway what needs to happen STARTING with the Houston game and going forward to next reason..
Phil is going to talk with Rac about things needing to be tightened up..
Rac MUST become a disciplinarian then he is especially with the younger guys (Brayby and KW)..
LAY the law down..
Just saying that the QB should be preaching in the huddle isn't enough..GET THESE big heads in a meeting ..tell their butts that the QB is in charge not the WR's..
Since they have no problem telling QB's and the media what they want...Rac ,U tell them U want them to be on time for meetings , run the FREAKING CORRECT ROUTES, CATCH THE DANG BALL and SHUT YOUR FREAKING PIE-HOLE OR U WILL BE BENCHED/FINED..and given a ticket out if U don't straighten up your act <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Rac has to stop giving descriptions of what they should be doing...MAKE these BONE-HEADS accountable for their actions. [/color]

I don't disagree. I just don't think it will happen.

If Romeo has to start to get harder, it is proof he was the wrong guy to begin with.


I like the guy, but he is in over his head.

I'm tending to agree on this - but the basis for my opinion is weak at best.

I don't know the guy - just know how he comes across in public, but I get the impression that he's trying to change his personality to be more affective. I don't believe that type of change is practical or even possible long term.

On the other hand, I've heard numerous stories about "RAC attacks" and so forth. What's he really like behind closed doors?

If he's just learning and changing philosophy as he goes, I think he has a chance. If he's having to make a conscious effort to "be" different - it won't be if he fails, but when, IMO

don't take this the wrong way peen, but why can't a guy do something to try to improve his job performance? if he has to get harder, maybe he sees that he's made a mistake and is correcting it. it's part of the learning process.

i'm not a big RAC fan either, but the guy is in his first head coach gig, he's going through growing pains.

[color:"white"]

Gotta take the unpopular stance here, and say I'm not going to be sad if RAC is fired.

I always look for "deal breakers" when it comes to coaches, players, or front office people. In the case of RAC, he went on double-secret probation when he failed to can Mo, not because I wanted him fired (which I obviously did *L*) but because of just how bad things had gotten once it was all revealed to the public.

My deal breaker was when RAC failed to handle Edwards and the team came out and asked for more discipline and accountability. I'd said it then and I feel the same way now. I asked myself this question:

How many good coaches in this league have ever had their players publicly state they wished they had more discipline and accountability put upon their shoulders?

Cowher? Parcells? Bellyache? Holmgren? Gibbs?

I want stability as much as anyone, but stability just for the sake of it is a flawed philosophy. IMHO, RAC doesn't have what it takes. I'd love for him to prove me wrong, but I don't care for his gameday coaching, and as noted, I can't think of one good coach in this league who's ever had his players ask for more accountability and discipline from the staff. Those are just too many strikes against a coach. Game over man, game over.

Now this isn't to keep from blaming Savage for having a hand in hiring him or for bringing in Mo. He has his own cross to carry. Still, if a coach doesn't have the complete belief of his players, he's no coach for this league. When the players question RAC's methods, which is exactly what they are doing when talking about accountability and discipline, albeit in a very polite and roundabout way, the jig is up.

Maybe they'll fire him and maybe they won't. I think it's time since we're still in rebuild mode.[/color]

if they do fire him, who's going to come here? 2 years (only 1 rebuilding year) isn't enough time to prove you can do the job.

i'll have to disagree with the toad (I guess i'm not a tadpole anymore), the guy is a rookie making rookie mistakes, he needs time to learn just like K2 and braby.

[color:"red"] If Romeo has to start to get harder, it is proof he was the wrong guy to begin with.

[/color]
GMAB it''s hardly ever that cut n dry Peen..coaches have to make adjustments to improve..U don't just cana guy just because he has to make adjustments in how he handles things..
U give him time and if he fails then you jettison him.
Being a older guy he hasn't had to deal with the big mouths until this year..Edwards/Winslow didn't play much last year..the riff in 05 was Dilfer vs Mo.
Now this year the horses open their yak and cause a disruption..and he clearly wasn't firm enough..
Now granted he should have taken charge but I think he feels the veterans can step in and do it..but situation dictates he HAS to step up as a coach, get the guys in line.

I am not saying he needs to go this year. He should get to start next season.

But IMO I know how this is going to finish. He won't last the season.

I said he was soft several months ago, and recent reports only intensify that feeling.

He will never make it.

What coach is going to be willing to step into the revolving door? Another assistant?

Romeo maintained that Mo wasn't the primary problem with the offense - and was apparently correct.

He's dealing with situations he's never dealt with before. How many times have you said "if that happened to me I'd <fill in the blank>", but when it happens and your idea is flushed down the crapper you realize what you needed to do?

Edwards is tough. He stares you in the face - looks sincere, says the right things - then turns around and stabbs you in the back. As a popular example, Parcels hasn't exactly "handled" TO. These types of problems are not isolated to us - they're all over. Who was the wide receiver who flat left Green Bay last year, Driver? A coach can only do so much, but I agree that he needs to revisit his philosophies on some things.


Based on what we've been exposed to publically - I think he gets another year, despite his failures - right or wrong. Savage being on the chopping block is also a factor - he can't afford right now to admit he made a mistake with RAC (even if he feels that way). Now - if someone's available and interested who we can't pass up....

I expect him to get another year. I'm just not sure if I'm happy about it or not.

.. " talking about accountability and discipline, albeit in a very polite and roundabout way, the jig is up. "

A Voice from the ( Way ) deep South says ;;;;;; You need to go all the way to the top with this one Toad ! Allllllllllllllllllllllllll the way .. Lerner is a shity owner , Phil has been marginal in his talent aquisitions , and RAC. has had a HARD time of it .. ( Being the Field Boss ) ...

So what now ???? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

If I was the owner, Romeo would get another year and he would also hear from me that my expectation for '07 was no worse than an 8-8 season. Failing that, I would look for the likes of Bill Cowher to take over in '08, or even better, Jeff Fisher if he should somehow be available. In general, a proven Head Coach with demonstrated success at the job. Tom Coughlin need not apply.

Note to Assassin: Belicheck's Browns went the playoffs once, in 1994. That was the team that managed to lose to the Steelers 3 times.

As the owner <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" /> , Make sure you drop a dime on Uncle Phil too <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]I want stability as much as anyone, but stability just for the sake of it is a flawed philosophy. [/color]
And canning someone who needs to adjust , just for the sake of firing him is worse..and right now U as well as anyone knows what will happen if Rac is canned in the offseason..chaos..
New coach, new philosophy..another tear down..the only way that is bypassed is getting a coach who wants to run the same defensive scheme..

Rumor time ... I was listening to Andre Knott, Browns beat reporter for the flagship station WTAM last night, and he said Randy Lerner is interested in talking to - get this - Dan Reeves for the HC job. I kid you not. Reeves must be around 70 now, right? Jeez, why don't we just go get Don Shula ...



Post edited due to masked profanity

Sorry ref.

I don't know how true this is......but Reeves wouldn't be bad.....he knows how to build a team and knows what it takes.

His age isn't really a factor unless he is sick or something like that.


But....in the end....this is just a BS story that probably doesn't have any real life.


But.....you never know. I guess we should expect to hear this sort of stuff as it always happens when teams seem to be stuck in the mud and only getting deeper.

[color:"white"]
Here's a different way to look at it.

There are only 32 truly elite jobs in this field. That in and of itself is enough to make most candidates stand up and take notice.

Having said that, consider the situation. This is a team that's going to be sitting with $32 million to spend in free agency. This is a team with several very high draft picks. This is a team that does have some young talent that's emerging, and this is a team with an owner who doesn't have a problem opening up his vastly deep pockets.

If I'm a HC candidate, there's alot to love about this opening.

[color:"white"]
Correct? The players didn't respect the OC. If that happens, that's the problem. That isn't to say the lack of talent on the line wasn't the problem, but Mo was a hated person who didn't have the respect of anyone but RAC. Apparently RAC didn't have it right because, according to reports, his higher-ups had to step in and do the right thing.

No, RAC didn't have it right. In fact, it was a strike against him that he waited as long as he did, and had to be forced to do it.

[color:"white"]
I'm not RAC (Wish I was? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). In the NFL, you only get so long to learn as a rookie coach. He's no longer a rookie, and it's the end of his 2nd season. Like Mo, how much time is enough before you have to figure it out? In the NFL, you're hired to BE a head coach, not to LEARN how to be a head coach. In some situations it's ok to learn on the fly. But RAC isn't a young man. He's old for a new head coach. He's been under Parcells and then Bellyache for YEARS. If he didn't learn it from them after more than a decade of service, he won't learn it by osmosis after two seasons of failure all by himself.

[color:"white"]

It wouldn't surprise me. However, I wouldn't say he gets another year. I'd say he could get another chance, but if he doesn't do well right out of the block, he'll get the axe in mid-season. I believe that if it's gotten to that point, it's better to make the move now rather than later, but I get your point, and can see it even if I don't agree.

[color:"white"]

I think it's just the opposite, and I point to MO as the perfect example.

The first real strike against RAC was how he screwed up the Mo situation. He waited entirely too long to make the move, so when the move was finally forced upon him, one of his great weaknesses was exposed. Now he's carrying around that weight even heavier than he would have if he'd have fired him at the end of last year. If Savage doesn't make the change now and has to do it at mid-season, his ship is sunk. If he fires RAC now, he gets the mulligan that most GM's get and can start off next year with a different mindset.

I think the odds of RAC turning this around are quite a bit less than his odds of failing. In that regard, if Savage hitches his wagon to RAC again, he could easily go down with the ship next year. If he makes the move now, he buys himself more time.

Also, IMHO, firing a new coach who's obviously made very public blunders and mistakes after two seasons isn't the same as cutting a 2nd year 1st round draft pick. Those are two very different scenarios.

[color:"white"]

You mean like Cowher? <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> [color:"white"]

Which speaks volumes.

Personally, I don't see why we should wait. Can he turn it around? Sure. Are the chances of success greater than failure? I don't think any of us can say yes. In that regard, I'd rather make the move now than later, simply because when you cut a coach at mid-season, which is when he'd get the axe, your season is lost, and I don't think this regime can take that.

I know the above paragraph is open to scrutiny and criticism, but I always felt that Mo wouldn't survive to the end of the year if he didn't succeed. He didn't, and he didn't, hehe. I think the same deathwatch is there for RAC, so IMHO the same situation applies.[/color]

We see things a bit differently on this subject.
For the sake of keeping this reasonably short - I'll be as to the point as possible. Let me know if something needs elaboration.

Regarding the Mo termination - I'd add that just because the higher-ups supported the termination of Mo doesn't mean it was the right decision - or the right timing of the decision. No one in our chain of command has established themselves as being able to make a "right" decision. I have no problem with Mo being let go, but also feel he was a scape goat to appease the masses to a degree.


All new coaches make mistakes - winning only masks those mistakes - kinda like how great everything was when Anderson beat KC. No one cared about INTs, bad passes, fumbles because there was some sense of "hope". Every decision made by the organization is under a microscope that goes away with a few "W"s.


That goes without saying in the NFL.


That's an interesting point. Wouldn't it be nice if even ONE of our owner, GM, and HC had ANY type of track-record to fall back on. Between them all half-guessing through a learning process we're practically bound to failure <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


The odds would support that view. My concern would be in replacing the HC without rebuilding the entire staff and offensive and defensive systems. Can Reeves or similar come in and provide some leadership/guidance w/o blowing things up? Whoever it might be would generally need a year to learn personnel, coaches, etc to begin making changes. On the positive side, a weaker schedule next year might provide them with a running start of sorts.

I guess I can see us going either way if we're talking strictly about what's better for the team, but I'd be more surprised to see RAC go than to stay.

I'm most concerned about Lerner and Savage getting things stabilized at the top.

[color:"white"]
After two full seasons as a head coach, and with more than a decade under HOF coaches in Parcells and Bellyache, he shouldn't need time to adjust. He's not a young coach. If he hasn't learned it by now, he won't.

Mo had his time to learn while making mistakes, and so has RAC. If he doesn't get it by now, I don't think he ever will.

Also, it'll be worse if we fire him in mid-season. Firing him now isn't any more chaotic than firing him later.[/color]