DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The economy again…

Pretty certain you are correct.

The old "use less gas to save the planet.............Hey, if you lose less gas, we lose the gas tax money.............Oh well, we'll get your money somehow."

Don't they have to get money for roads somehow? It really kind of surprises me that some seem to think EV drivers shouldn't pay their fair share of the taxes the same way everyone else has to in order to fund road construction money. Using less fossil fuels doesn't make maintaining the roads any cheaper.

Yup. They ALWAYS need more money. Use less "X", oh, we have to charge you more since you used less. Like that town in California a number of years ago. "You must use less water." The town/city did as they were told. Success? Not for the citizens, as they reduced usage so much that the income from water bills was too low, so the town/city jacked up the rates.

I'm not sure what water rates in Califonia has to do with any of this but okay. And I'm not sure what you mean by "more money" when it comes to EV's. They were paying the fuel taxes before they bought an EV. Once they bought an EV they were paying nothing. So how is getting them to pay taxes again like they were before equal "more money" to you?

They're not using the roads less.

Youre saying that like they dont pass massive infrastructure bills.

Never mind.

They certainly did pass an infrastructure bill. Now could you explain what that has to do with people who drive gasoline powered cars paying a tax for road maintenance while people who drive EV's pay nothing towards road maintenance? Everyone who drives on the road should either be paying a tax towards maintaining our roads or nobody should be.

It's hard to argue the premise of what you're saying here as it's 100% correct.

However

And this is really not picking on you, just the stupidity of the government...

"Taxin' that a$$" based on registration fees falls somewhere between makes no sense and ludicrous.

Gas tax is based on consumption. EV tax should be the same.

Here's an idea...

"Congress at the urging of the Biden administration agreed in 2021 to spend $7.5 billion to build tens of thousands of electric vehicle chargers across the country, aiming to appease anxious drivers while tackling climate change. Two years later, the program has yet to install a single charger."

Start charging a tax on consumption once you've built this network. Hurry up and get a shovel in the ground... until then, give these early adopters a well deserved break until you can get your act together.

A reasonable registration tax when a car is sold? Fine, that pain will be spread between the consumer, the dealer and absorbed into a bank loan anyway. And don't let me hear you cry about "money for roads" either. You're going to spend trillions to save the planet, this is a (half) drop in the bucket.


Fair enough or makes too much sense?

It makes sense to a degree. You could certainly do that for people that travel long distances or choose to use those charging stations. What would make your suggestion far more difficult is that many if not most EV drivers have charging stations at home. A great deal of EV's are used for local travel and wouldn't be using those charging stations. That would up the difficulty factor in measuring exactly how to tax those drivers. I certainly agree with you that having some flat registration fee does not accurately tax people based upon usage. As with everything new I think it will take some time to work out a system that is fair. I'm not sure what that is at this point.

And I don't think building tens of thousands of charging stations being a part of infrastructure spending was to appease anyone. One of the biggest complaints of EV's was a lack of charging stations. Having access to charging stations is no different than having access to gas stations for combustion engines. I actually think it's a very practical idea.

Exactly right.

My favorite is the government wants to push EV adoption and saving the planet. So they offer a $7500 tax credit to buy an EV.

But you can’t make over a certain amount of money and/or if the car is $80k or over you don’t get the tax credit.

If you want people to adopt something why are there restrictions on it?

Gotta punish those rich baby!

Just say what the actual goals/priority are. Don’t say it’s to go green and save the planet.

So, just lease the EV. The dealer will realize the Federal tax credit and can in turn pass the savings on to you, the buyer. This route also negates any income disqualification. If the dealer is not willing to pass the savings on to you in a wink/nod deal, walk away and find a dealer that will play the game

People pretending to have money and acting like they are impacted are the worst! People with money are well ahead of the game. Pick up a copy of Kiplinger's for $6.

Uhhh..I agree. Your original wording made it sound like the Ukraine aide was stuffed in to a Border bill.

At any rate, we can leave it at that. Sorry i I brought it up.

I agree, and that will be a tricky fix. Will we rely on self reporting of milage? That poses a few problems. One, most people will under report. It also poses a problem related to we currently use a pay as you go system. Many years ago I heard Rush Limbaugh, yes, I know many didn't like the man, but he made a solid point here. If we didn't pay a dime in taxes throughout the year and at years end got our tax bill on everything we consumed, there would be a national revolt, and this isn't saying we don't need taxes or are paying too much. That is a different topic.

Just going down to this one issue, we pay our federal, state, and local taxes every time we purchase gasoline. If we had to pay everything at the end of the year, we would have a problem.

We will probably have to do one of two things. The first is you would have to drive in to a monitoring station so milage could be checked monthly. Nobody is going to want to do that. Going down to get plate tags or annual emission tests if required in your state is something nobody likes.

The second is road taxes equal to gasoline taxes will have to be fixed in to the price of all charging methods.. This means any home charging system will be required to have a separate meter attached and the electric provider will collect the appropriate taxes on that meter.

I suppose there is a third way...pretty much make every road a toll road. Have some sort of EZ pass and readers everywhere, then get a monthly bill.

Talk about a nightmare on the horizon. That's going to be a mess.

The catch phrase is emissions, or carbon footprint reduction. OK, cool, it needs to be done, but that doesn't pay for all the road construction and repairs, bridges, and dam projects, plus whatever else. If gasoline can no longer support those projects, we will have to find the money somewhere. I don't think we want potholes and bridges falling down.

You're missing the point. If the goal is EV adoption why put in restrictions? It has nothing to do with income level, pretending to be impacted, having money, not having money, leasing, buying, etc.

What is the goal? I was under the impression the goal was EV adoption. If that's not the goal, someone correct me.

If you want people to do something for a purpose (reduce emissions, save the planet, go green, etc.), what is the point of restrictions? All the restrictions are going to do is make it harder to reach the goal. Even rich people want discounts. And having to lease vs. buy to qualify for a break is just another form of restriction.


Care to elaborate?

I think the goal is to make it more affordable to the average consumer. Making it an easier choice for them if they so choose to make that choice. You seem to think the goal is to get everyone to adopt the idea of driving an EV. Now if you are correct with your point what you're saying makes sense. If the goal is simply give those who could not otherwise afford the additional costs of an EV the option to purchase one then having an income cut off limit makes sense.

I don't think anyone is trying to force EV adoption as you put it.

Your point could be used to point out affordable housing for the poor. I mean everyone wants cheap rent, right? Or food assistance. I mean everyone wants some free groceries, right?

It's just in this case it actually helps working families with lower incomes have an affordable option people who make more money already have.

Speaking as someone who has an EV and did not get a tax credit, I actually don't have a problem with that provision.

A lot of tax credits are phased out depending on income levels, not just this one.

A lot on the right were blasting the stimuluses given out during COVID, arguing that a lot of the stimuluses were going to people who didn't need it, which I understand. But now to argue that we shouldn't have stimuluses like that, but should allow everyone an EV credit, even those who don't need it, when we're gobbs in debt, seems to be hypocritical.

If you want to proliferate EV ownership, you have to make them available to those who otherwise may be deterred by the current costs.

What you and Pit are saying is the goal is not broad EV adoption. The goal is to make EVs more affordable for the middle class.

All I’m saying is if the goal is to save the planet and get people into EVs (which actually doesn’t save the planet) don’t put restrictions on it.

Your analogy on COVID has no correlation here if the goal is to get people driving EVs. If the goal is to make EVs more affordable, ok. But those are two entirely different things.

The wealthy always think they should be bribed into doing the right thing.

"Hey! What about US!"

That's not true. Why say it under cover of kidding?

Because it's true for some and not for others. Just like all Republicans aren't trumpians and all Democrats aren't like AOC. I'm not one who wishes to paint averyone with a broad brush. You know, like I would never say everyone who doesn't share my political views are communists. That sort of thing. So for those which fit the description of what I posted, and there certainly are some like that out there, it applies. To many others it does not.

If that is strictly the goal, then perhaps that makes sense. Where the dynamic does dovetail with with the COVID stimulus correlation is that I think it's much more complex of a situation than what you are making it out to be. I think the goal is to transition from gas to EVs while balancing financial interests and practicalities, not to simply say "Everyone should have an EV."

I would piggyback on what you are saying and add that the broad brush painting and oversimplistic (and inaccurate to add to that) assumptions probably exist at the core of our country's political turmoil.

You hear the extremists because what they say grabs the headlines due to its bombastic nature and rarely if ever hear from anyone that has a moderate viewpoint about anything.

Jc

I like how the economic news was good in a bad way, since the fed is most likely gonna hold steady on rates. Tick all the stock market bros off cause they were hoping for a rate cut. That’s fine, I have my accounts DRIP’d and can’t wait for that compound interest to turbo boost next few months.

I saw them dip big time today. Might buy some more.

So now there is a $78B bipartisan tax relief bill that Republican Senators are afraid will make Biden look good.

Border deal being tied up by unwilling to act GOPers. Tax relief tied up by unwilling to act GOPers. I’m beginning to see a pattern here.

The party of no blaming everyone else for them being the party of no.

Aaaaand more #fakenews

Senate GOPers are balking. Do try to keep up.

Oh... balking.

Which ones are balking? I want to make sure I keep them away from my kids.

Ope. I found it...

Sen. Chuck Grassley

Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, cast doubt Wednesday on passing a bipartisan tax bill, saying it could make President Joe Biden “look good” and improve Democrats’ chances of holding the White House in the 2024 election. Grassley said re-electing Biden could hurt Republican hopes of extending Trump-era tax cuts.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow...grassley-says-quiet-part-loud-rcna136718

You were saying something about fake news? About failing GOPers? Something stupid.

There is also this showing MAGA doesn’t want it, so yes Senate GOPers will stink eye it.


House GOP revolt fails to stop passage of bipartisan tax bill

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/01/house-republicans-vote-bipartisan-tax-deal

And Grassley is a leader, others will come out.

His news sources don't tell him things like that. If you don't post it on here he will never see it.....

GOP senator doesn’t want to pass a tax bill because it could make Biden ‘look good’

Sen. Chuck Grassley made the comments ahead of a House vote on a $78 billion package that would expand the child tax credit and provide some tax breaks for businesses.

“Passing a tax bill that makes the president look good — mailing out checks before the election — means he could be re-elected, and then we won’t extend the 2017 tax cuts,” Grassley told reporter. The bill does not include checks for Americans; what it includes is a tax credit.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...tax-bill-make-biden-look-good-rcna136649

Not that he actually cares anyway.

Fate will never admit he’s caught up in the cult of Donnie, Pit. But he’s a decent dude. Give him a break. Reality just needs to land for him to see things clearly again.

Remember, you can’t fix stupid… and GOPer FASCISM IN AMERICA is the most STUPID crap I’ve ever seen. Some Rs will never recover their sanity, but I think Fate will be one who does. Maybe Eve, but she’ll never admit it. Peen is lost.

I've actually said I would like to have a beer with him. What he posts in here is nothing but a fake persona of who he really is. Surely he has to be smarter than what he posts on here. I've actually seen evidence of it in the other forums. We get along fine outside of the political forum. I've become accustomed to the fact that he only posts with this fake persona as a means of entertainment.

fake persona??

One would hope so or you are certainly in need of thoughts and prayers.

I'd like to have a beer with the lot of you, to be honest.

Or you just have to have the right neighbors...

Biden admin extends EV charger tax credit to 'low-income' Martha's Vineyard