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#2059010 02/10/24 08:58 AM
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This article is informative in regards to what happened and the challenges involved in his return.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...he-road-to-rehabbing-a-running-back.html

Nick turned 28 December 27th.

As much as it pains me we must be realistic about his return.

Facts are facts. We have to adjust our expectations. When he returns is a question and so is how he returns.

The running back room is Ford, Pierre Strong, (Hunt not signed). Given Nick's status we are not good enough at running back.

I think the Browns have to consider worst case scenario. That is when Nick does return he will not be the same. Two major reconstructive surgeries on the same knee is not an automatic good to go prognosis.

I think the Browns have to draft a back. Ford is no bell cow back. He is a depth back. Strong is the same.

If the Browns could land Trey Benson in the third round. He would be a good insurance plan.

Last edited by bonefish; 02/10/24 09:15 AM.
bonefish #2059011 02/10/24 09:07 AM
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To be honest, I don't think I'll ever count Chubb out., He's that good of a man and athlete.


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bonefish #2059012 02/10/24 09:16 AM
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I think they will/should look at a vet FA RB as insurance to Chubb's return.

bonefish #2059023 02/10/24 10:47 AM
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It's very early in the draft projections phase. A lot of players will move up and down the board between now and draft day. If I were forced to bet I don't believe there's any way Benson is there for the Browns 3rd round draft pick. With an 11-6 record they will be drafting very late in the round unless they trade up and I have a feeling at that point in the draft they will have positions of priority higher than RB.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2059029 02/10/24 11:50 AM
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Right it is still very early.

The Combine usually shakes up the mock drafts.

I only looked at Brooks and Benson. The draft is very fluid. Benson is all the place.

It all depends on how Berry wants to play this. He might want to sign a free agent to a short deal. Maybe trade for a guy.

I am beginning to think that Wills and or Newsome may be traded. Jones could play LT. Cam Mitchell could play the slot.

Both Newsome and Wills are young and both are former first round picks. Hard to say what we could get in trade for them.

Yet the way I see it the draft is the best solution for getting a running back. The reason is the position is devalued and you could get a good back later than trying to draft another position.

I do not like the running back room right now.

bonefish #2059031 02/10/24 12:11 PM
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I'm not crazy about a RB room without Chubb either. But here's the thing. Most NFL teams who have have top rated passing QB's use the pass to open up the run. Not the other way around. As such they don't have a loaded box to run against. When you invest the type of resources the Browns have in a QB you generally build your O around giving that QB the passing weapons he needs to succeed. I think anyone that looks at our WR's knows that is still far from being accomplished. Hell, this FO traded away DPJ who was our #2 WR last year to Detroit and he ended up with 13 receptions. He was lost in a WR room that had actual talent. And I haven't really even seen a WR brought in that reached what DPJ had done here before he left.

It seems to me if anything they'll prioritize upgrading the WR position before the RB position. I don't disagree they'll address the RB position but I think they'll have a better idea by the draft in how Chubb is progressing. What the trend is and has become is that with a good passing game and not having a loaded box to try and run against, lesser backs can do just fine. I see the Browns progressing and moving into the future by following that lead rather than living in the past and ignoring it.

I don't want you to think I'm happy about that. I, much like yourself are at an age that I have watched all of the prolific RB's over the past 50 years +. I played FB in high school and loved the physicality of the position. But as with everything time marches on and it is what it is.

And I know there are still questions surrounding watson's ability to run a prolific passing O among many people. But I think he was just beginning to show what he was capable of right before his injury. And the bottom line is, if watson can't run a prolific passing O the Browns made a big mistake.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2059041 02/10/24 02:37 PM
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Ford was a fifth round pick.

As time went by I became less impressed. The link I posted really details how difficult a road Nick has to get back. One cannot assume all will work out with him.

Berry IMO has to address the roster as a whole. Tillman and Bell got lost in all the changes on offense. Moore was in essence our second round pick last year. We gave up a second to get him.

He was supposed to be a real weapon. All the jet sweeps and reverses got canned. He could not turn the corner. He is not a run after catch guy at 5'10" 180 lbs.

He is a slot receiver and that is all he is. Frankly, I was disappointed in him.

Looking at WRs because of what we went through at quarterback. Hard to say what we really have. Both Bell and Tillman were third round picks and are 23 years old.

Berry has to look at the big picture of improving the offense as a whole. The coaching changes were all about getting DW to reach his potential.

IMO they should look at a receiver who has proven himself as productive. Mike Evans or Mike Williams both might be available.

The draft is all about value. Do your grading and if a guy is there and is quantified as a great value; draft him. This draft from what I read is deep in receivers. I have no problem taking a receiver anywhere in the draft. But if you have a running back graded higher. Draft him.

I can play GM but I am just guessing like most are. Berry has to figure it out.

bonefish #2059043 02/10/24 02:56 PM
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Yeah, it's all just guesswork on both of our parts. I really have no idea how they will handle the draft, what positions they will draft nor where in the draft they will select them. I do look at teams like the Chiefs who selected Isiah Pacheco in the 7th round and Edwards-Helaire in the 1st round. As it's turned out they get a lot more out of Pacheco and their running game seems to produce better with Pacheco in the line up. It's amazing how productive a smaller investment in a RB can produce with a proficient passing game.

But we'll all see how things play out in April.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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bonefish #2059044 02/10/24 02:57 PM
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I pray he comes back but I'm drafting a mid round RB...


<><

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When it comes to the draft I pick guys out that I like.

I look at where the Browns pick. So, if we start in the second round. I am looking at guys from the bottom of the first to the bottom of the third.

I really like two guys that may or may not be there when we pick. Knowing only once did my guy get drafted (JOK).

I like Troy Franklin the receiver from Oregon and Trey Benson the running back from Florida State. Franklin will probably not be there. He is projected top of the second.
Benson could be a second or third.

I would love to get both knowing we probably will not draft either.

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I said in the draft thread, we need to plan for the possibility of Nick not getting back to being the Nick we’ve known.

I think he will, I hope he will, but maybe he won’t. We have to address that room in FA or in the draft


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bonefish #2059050 02/10/24 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
Ford was a fifth round pick.

As time went by I became less impressed.

As time went on the o line became a lot less impressive



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BADdog #2059051 02/10/24 07:29 PM
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When the tackle position ended with Hudson and Christian no doubt pass protection went downhill.

However, run blocking is easier because the blocking assignments are coordinated differently. Run blocking is easier than pass protection.

Ford does not have good vision. If there is a big obvious hole he is ok. But anticipating the block and hitting a crease. Ford is terrible. He will run into his blocker and never see the hole. He has some speed. He is not an efficient runner. He does not get the most from what is there.

He is average at best.

With the uncertainty of Nick we need more.

bonefish #2059056 02/11/24 06:27 AM
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I agree. I don't count on Nick being back. Back in the sense of being a top back in the league. I hope he does, but I don't expect that to happen. No way Hunt is back, as in on the team. My guess is Nick stays on some injury list to start the season.

We will probably address the situation with a FA back and a drafted back. The FA probably won't be the top FA, but a decent/good free agent who can be productive. The drafted back will probably be considered an upper level back, and even possibly drafting another in a later round. I will not try to predict who or what rounds these guys will be drafted at this point. The possibilities are infinite at this point. The possibility also looms we trade for a back. It's no secret we want to move on from Conklin. Berry has been pretty creative in making swaps. Conklin for a back some other teams wants to move away from in conjunction with some picks swaps/ money considerations...whatever.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It's no secret we want to move on from Conklin.

That sure seems like a secret to me.

Conjecture or you know something?

Rishuz #2059079 02/11/24 10:42 AM
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Jack Conklin is still a good player that can be an asset to our team. Obviously he needs to stay healthy. Last season’s injury was pure bad luck.

Rishuz #2059125 02/11/24 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It's no secret we want to move on from Conklin.

That sure seems like a secret to me.

Conjecture or you know something?


I suppose just reading other peoples conjecture. I don't claim to have any inside info. I have seen several articles and TV/Youtube blurbs suggesting we want to move on.

You can find them if you look.


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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Jack Conklin is still a good player that can be an asset to our team. Obviously he needs to stay healthy. Last season’s injury was pure bad luck.


I don't think he is a bad player.


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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Jack Conklin is still a good player that can be an asset to our team. Obviously he needs to stay healthy. Last season’s injury was pure bad luck.


Conklin's injury history has to be considered...

Torn ACL/MCL
Week 1 (2023)

Ankle sprain
Week 17 (2022)

Patellar tendon surgery rehabilitation
Preseason (2022)

Patellar tendon tear
Week 12 (2021)

Elbow dislocation
Week 8 (2021)

Jack's ability to recover from his most recent injury, at the age of 29.5...I hope he can do it but Conklin is facing one heck of challenge.





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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Jack Conklin is still a good player that can be an asset to our team. Obviously he needs to stay healthy. Last season’s injury was pure bad luck.

He's had like 3 "bad luck" injuries in a row without much playing time in between.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It's no secret we want to move on from Conklin.

That sure seems like a secret to me.

Conjecture or you know something?


I suppose just reading other peoples conjecture. I don't claim to have any inside info. I have seen several articles and TV/Youtube blurbs suggesting we want to move on.

You can find them if you look.

Financially, the Browns can't do anything with Conklin this year (2024) because of the way they constructed his contract. His cap number is 12.025M for 2024 with only 4.5M being in salary due to previous restructures Berry has done. The dead money for releasing Conklin in 2024 is 27.438M to cover all the prorated bonus money and guarantees that Berry has built into the contract. Trading Conklin with his contracted scheduled salary of 14M each in 2025 and 2026 would be extremely high risk for any team trading for him considering his injury history. Even with that, a trade pre-June 1 would still leave the Browns with 21.938M in dead money for 2024. For a team that's already 19.622M over the proposed cap, adding 21.938M to that overage would be team suicide. One final note, Conklin has a 5.5M guarantee in his contract for 2024. That covers his planned salary of 4.5M and 1.0M per game roster bonus, The balance of his 2024 cap is a prorated bonus of 7.467M that cannot be reworked. In a nutshell, the Browns are locked into the 12.025M cap number in 2024 or more than 20M in dead money if they try to move him due to the number of prorated bonuses already written into his contract.


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I know. Like I said, it would have to be some sort of creative trade with us picking up a portion of the salary.


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Ballpeen #2059322 02/13/24 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I know. Like I said, it would have to be some sort of creative trade with us picking up a portion of the salary.

The creativity is highly dependent on how much the Browns want to lose. Like I said, a straight up trade leaves the Browns with 21.938M in dead money. If they make a trade and agree to pick up a portion of his salary either this year or the future years, that amount will be added to the dead money and count against the cap. Simply put, the Browns/Berry have deferred $21,938,000 in salary and spread it out over many years. Today, the Browns still owe 5 years of deferred salary (prorated bonus) on Conklin that becomes immediately due if they move Conklin in any way (trade or cut} plus they are currently responsible for his additional 5.5M guarantee for 2024 if they cut him.

Existing Dead Money for 2024
John Johnson - $8,850,000
Jadeveon Clowney - $4,800,000
Perrion Winfrey - $406,400
Cade York - $364,820
Anthony Schwartz - $224,186
Tommy Togiai - $169,286
Isaiah Thomas - $57,802
Demetric Felton - $40,286
Lonnie Phelps - $16,667
Jeremiah Martin - $10,000
Hassan Hall - $10,000
Thomas Greaney - $6,667
Tanner McCalister - $6,667
Charlie Thomas - $6,667
Caleb Biggers - $3,334
Total = $14,972,782


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