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I have cyphered on this DA thing a long time now  .. I think I'm going to let Savage make the decision , That way you'all can't Blame me if it's the wrong one 
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Yes, whichever one we start is going to take a few years to reach their full potential... my point was, I don't think we can keep them both on roster and keep them both happy, while we wait for that to happen... not to mention, if we do keep them both on the roster then one will be developing on the field and the other will be on the sidelines so we won't know how much he COULD HAVE developed... It's not an easy decision, but it's one that has to be made.
Quinn is under contract. He can be happy .... unhappy ..... or kick his feet and scream, but that fact doesn't change. Ditto for Anderson if he signs a long term deal.
The 49'ers somehow managed to have Joe Montana and Steve Young on their roster for quite few years. Young sat on the bench for 5 or 6 years before truly beginning his Hall of Fame career. (and PLEASE note that I am merely stating that 2 Hall of Famers could co-exist ....... NOT that I am saying that either or both of our guys will be Hall of Famers) The Browns could conceivably have a situation where both QBs are here for the next 4 years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The 49'ers somehow managed to have Joe Montana and Steve Young on their roster for quite few years.
The 49ers during that 4-year stretch had a regular season record of 51-12 and won 2 super bowls... so I agree with you, if we have anywhere near that kind of success, then the back-up QB just needs to shut up.
Not to mention, Steve Young was not a fresh-out-of-the-box rookie either.. he had a couple very unsuccessful years in Tampa... not saying it was his fault, but he had 2 sub 65 rating years already, whether he was going to be great was far from a given... they had Montana who had established himself as great and an unknown... we have one guy who had one decent year and an unknown...
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Quinn is under contract. He can be happy .... unhappy ..... or kick his feet and scream, but that fact doesn't change. Ditto for Anderson if he signs a long term deal.
While I agree with you in theory, that is never good for a team. Like I said before, if we are winning and the offense is producing, the backup QB has little argument.. and I mean REALLY winning, like deep into the playoffs winning. Not 9 or 10 games and maybe eeking into the playoffs, winning.
yebat' Putin
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It really depends. If the team repects that QB, feels like he gives them a chance to excel at their own position, puts them in position to win most games, they'll stay in his corner.
If they feel that he is the weak link on offense, costs them games, puts his own interests ahead of theirs, or acts like he is "better" than them, they'll sabotage him. The QB has to remain consistent, in approach and attitude, and lead the team without being unduly overbearing. It's a thin line to walk .... and probably the undoing of more QBs than physical talent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It really depends. If the team repects that QB, feels like he gives them a chance to excel at their own position, puts them in position to win most games, they'll stay in his corner.
If they feel that he is the weak link on offense, costs them games, puts his own interests ahead of theirs, or acts like he is "better" than them, they'll sabotage him. The QB has to remain consistent, in approach and attitude, and lead the team without being unduly overbearing. It's a thin line to walk .... and probably the undoing of more QBs than physical talent.
It's about winning and meeting expectations, Ytown.. it really boils down to that. Heck the Bears supported Rex Grossman when they were winning.. Randy Moss and TO become model citizens when they are winning... It doesn't take much more than a short losing streak to get fingers pointed and one thing we know about human beings, and NFL players are still human beings, nobody is going to point at himself as the reason for losing... at least not repeatedly...
yebat' Putin
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and in the new year .. I'm going to be a kinder/gentlier Diam .. at least thats the plan for now
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I haven't bothered to read all of what's in this thread. Some of it's legit, but some of it is classic posturing and drivel.
My feeling is that this last game of the year goes a LONG LONG way towards answering this threads question. If Anderson goes out and lays an egg, I think he's MORE likely to be our starting QB next year. If Anderson goes out and plays like the guy who was lighting teams up before they figured him out, then he's LESS likely to be starter, as his value will have gone up, and other teams may want him more.
Very few QB's in the NFL have unlimited upside as 24-year old QB's. Anderson was a late-round pick because he was highly questionable in the decision making, defense reading, and accuracy departments. So why did he have success?
1st half of the season:
Teams blitzed him thinking they could rattle a young QB. Teams quickly found out that we had an ELITE pass-blocking unit, that blitzing Anderson made it easier for him to identify the 1-1 coverages, and make the throw to the right guy. They learned he wasn't Frye, in that he had no problems getting rid of the ball quickly. He's able to stretch defenses, so safeties couldn't cheat up. Edwards and Winslow are ELITE receivers and made all the catches.
2nd half of the season:
Teams stopped blitzing quite so often, and sat back and played zones, forcing Anderson to make reads and accurate throws. The Bengals game is the perfect example. Throw out the wind factor of the game. The wind made it impossible to make pinpoint throws, but the wind had NOTHING to do with Anderson's decision-making.
Everyone should recognize that playing inferior teams helped our record and Anderson's production. However, everyone should also recognize that playing in bad weather hurts most QB's numbers as the year goes forward.
There are many factors involved in breaking down Anderson. It's not as cut and dry as many might think.
One issue that makes me feel that Anderson won't be a lock for this next season is because he is not now, nor will probably ever be, an accurate NFL passer. If you're scatter-armed as a college QB, you're most likely to be scatter-armed as an NFL QB. Here's Anderson's completion percentage as a three-year starting college QB:
47%
51%
54%
The trend was that he'd improved, but his best season was worrisome. Again, that's why he was a late-round pick. So what has he done as a third-year player/first year starter:
56.6%
That's not very good. In fact, that's 27th in the league. That's a problem.
His rating is 18th in the league. That's not very good when one considers that he has two pro-bowl level receivers, a sure-handed 3rd down receiver, and one of the best pass-blocking lines in the league.
His int's are tied for 29th in the league. That's bad for a guy who's had elite receivers and pass protection.
His TD's are 5th, which is excellent.
Now that the year has moved forward, the book on Anderson has been written. Sure, he can get better as a passer, but as of right now, everyone has a good idea of what he is, and what he isn't.
His positives are that he's tall, can see the field, is strong, has a quick release, an A-arm, and throws a tight spiral that can work it's way through tough conditions.
His negatives are that he lacks accuracy, especially when he can't throw in rhythm and has to locate his checkdowns. His decision making is still highly questionable, especially when it comes to reading zone coverages. He lacks anything remotely close to touch, which is a big reason his accuracy suffers on shorter routes.
It's HIGHLY unlikely that Anderson will ever manage to be an accurate passer in this league. That's going to be a huge concern for any team, including ours, that looks at him as a viable long-term starter. We can throw out any GM or coach speak because to say anything negative or to tip our hand is nothing short of MORONIC, and while Opie has put his foot in his mouth before, I can't see him doing it now.
Do I think that Quinn can do some of the things that Anderson has? No, he doesn't have Anderson's arm. Do I think that Quinn can be more accurate than Anderson? Yeah, I think it'd be hard not too, but then again, accuracy is a big knock on Quinn coming out of college. Do I think that Quinn is going to be better than Anderson? I have no idea. On one hand, Anderson is a known quantity who's done some good things for us. He's a decent starter, but lacks some of the things that winning QB's have. Too many people unwittingly let the feel-good stories weigh their decisions, and Anderson is clearly a likeable guy. But if he doesn't get better, the good feelings wear off, and then people realize what he isn't. I don't think he's going to get much better than he is now. He's clearly better than I ever gave him credit for, but with each passing week he looks more and more like the guy I thought he was, and that's bad. I can easily forgive the tailing off of his numbers, as that's to be expected when the weather gets cold. What I can't forgive is the regression in decision making and lack of accuracy in the short throws.
Do I think Anderson will be the starter next year? Ask me again after the Niners game. This week will determine if a team wants to give up enough to pry him away from us, or if there's a QB battle in camp next year. When the good feelings of a winning season and a playoff drive are over, people will get down to business and break down Anderson's body of work. They'll stop seeing all the feel-good stuff and start seeing the things he does well, and the things he doesn't do well. The future projection of his abilities is far less rosey than we'd care to see, which brings Quinn back into the mix.
So despite it all, I'm back to my original belief: We'll give him the highest tender. If a team is dumb enough to give us a 1st AND a 3rd, we'll take it and move forward. If no team is willing, we have Anderson at a very reasonable cap figure, and we have a very nice quandry at the QB position going into next year. To give Anderson a big contract would be assinine. I think the FO will take the "wait and see" approach, because that's the smart thing to do right now. If Anderson is here on a one-year tender for next season and does well, then we give him the big contract, no harm no foul. If he doesn't, Quinn is entering his 3rd year and ready to take over the starting job. If Anderson isn't good enough, it's time anyway to find out of Quinn is the guy.
Wait until the Niners game is over before we put a final value on Anderson.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yet our 3rd down conversion rate is the best it's been in a long time. It was 36.6% in 2004, 33.0% in 2005, 33.5% in 2006, and has jumped all the way up to 41.5% in 2007.
Yet all those conversions didn't just come from DA's arm..we were able to run better..note the rushing TD's....
Still...just because the third down conversions % went up...it doesn't for one iota mean that he is accurate...it means he can make some throws and our recievers can make catches..
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It'll be the the winner of the coin flip.
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2nd String
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Oh ... and one other thing that jusy makes me shake my head is this:
People look at Anderson throwing 28 TDs so far, and say stuff like "well with this offense, anyone could do that" ... or that the "other guy" could do even better ...... or words to that effect. Really? DA might well set the all time franchise record for TD passes in a season, and people act like it's all the team, and the QB has had nothing to do with it. It's really a quite perverse reversal of years past.
You can throw all the TD passes in the world and still not WIN !!! A QB needs to perform the best when your season is on the line.If you throw up all over yourself during the big games you are useless to the team.So far DA's track record is unimpressive.
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Oh ... and one other thing that jusy makes me shake my head is this:
People look at Anderson throwing 28 TDs so far, and say stuff like "well with this offense, anyone could do that" ... or that the "other guy" could do even better ...... or words to that effect. Really? DA might well set the all time franchise record for TD passes in a season, and people act like it's all the team, and the QB has had nothing to do with it. It's really a quite perverse reversal of years past.
You can throw all the TD passes in the world and still not WIN !!! A QB needs to perform the best when your season is on the line.If you throw up all over yourself during the big games you are useless to the team.So far DA's track record is unimpressive.
So .... what track record would that be? One game? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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LOL.. which is odd because some of us think he deserves a little LESS credit and a lot more accountability...
LOL.......thanks for clarifying the point I was trying to make.
I suppose either challenging or setting all-time team marks and being one of the most productive QBs in the league this year aren't accountable actions....at least according to some of the menzas [yes, I know it is misspelled] on here. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Young/Montana isnt relevant in the slightest ... when they were together for those 4 or so years .. FA was in it's infancy .. there was basically NO FREE AGENCY back then ... your good with stats and no how to find things ... so go take a look back at what FA was like when Joe and Steve were together .. then you'll know how irrelivent that really is ..... OR like alot of the stats U use did u all ready do that but decided to leave that "MINOR" detail out ... kinda like when u dismissed Ammo for breaking down DA's stats into the two halves of the season and accused him of data manipulation because he didnt use the entire set of #'s .... and then about an hour later U had the gall to break DA's stats donw by home and away to make a point about his season ... very peenie esque ... real classy stuff .. 
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What he said.
x2
IMO Toad had the perfect breakdown of DA's game.
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I suppose either challenging or setting all-time team marks and being one of the most productive QBs in the league this year aren't accountable actions....
Just to make things clear...I was one of the most vocal critics of DA before the season began and during our early run. He did make some plays that should have cost us the Cincy game, the Oakland game he was the luckiest QB I ever saw. I know I also blasted him for other things but can't remember.
About halfway through this season I softened my opinion on him. I have said and still maintain that I won't come to any conclusions about him until the season is over. I agree with you that he doesn't get nearly as much credit as I think he deserves. There has been growth throughout the season.
Defenses do seem to be adjusting to him. I never thought he would be able to improve the way he has. For this reason I don't think I can dismiss his ability to adjust to the new defensive looks. In recent games weather has played a factor. I know it has effected some of his passes and may have gotten into his head on others.
I don't think for a minute that he no longer makes boneheaded decsions or has trouble with accuracy. I am not looking up any stats to help back my arguement but I do believe our third down efficientcy has improved because of his ability to complete pass plays on 3rd and longs. Sure having shorter distances on 3rd down plays some part but I believe his completetion % is actually higher on longer than 6 yards.
The fact that on 3rd and short he is less accurate is a problem. The thing I wonder is he getting better on these downs or not? If he is getting better (sorry, I don't see a way of proving it without any stats) then that would show me tangible proof of growth.
His completetion % has been discussed. It is low, period. (That is also a stat.  Diam that was for you.  ) I was probably either the first or second person on this board to harp on this. He was plain awful in college. I read later in an article that the team's philosophy was to "Just chuck it." If that was indeed the case it would help explain away some of the high amount of picks and low completetion %. The fact is he has improved his comp. % since college. I don't see how that isn't growth considering the vertical attack we use.
I don't think he will ever throw for high completetion %s or not throw a lot of picks. He will complete a high % of long plays because he does take those chances. There must be a trade off somewhere. For a QB like Farve there is more room for error because the good usually outweighs the bad. A QB like Garcia is the opposite.
I do believe people have the right to critize his play. There is no problem with people wanting to point out what they perceive as flaws. I also see no problem with DA getting credit for what he has done. He was voted as a Pro Bowl alternate by his peers and coaches, not fans. He is also on pace to break many offensive records of very good QBs from our past. These records predate our expansion year of 99. I don't buy into the arguement that any average QB could have done what DA has. These are not easy accomplishments to achieve. Great line, Great receivers, Great backs do help. The bottom line is the QB most deliver. DA has more times thsn not.
I hope when we give him the highest tender someone bites. That would be a great situation for us to have. Savage will have to make a decsion that won't be popular but will have upside either way.
The question I want to know is how much growth has Quinn showed in practice. He doesn't get a lot of snaps but I wonder how he is doing with what he has. Many are convinced he will be better than DA. I hope he is far better myself, that can only be good for us. The things is would all of us be so willing to let DA go if Quinn was struggling in practice? Wouldn't that be a kicker if we let DA go and Quinn turned out to be a bust? That is one question I hope we never find out the answer to.
#gmstrong
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Nice post. You are a very objective poster. A couple of quick points Quote:
Just to make things clear...I was one of the most vocal critics of DA before the season began and during our early run.
Quite frankly, he did make a lot of mistakes early in the year. The game where Gannon accused him of staring down receivers was a case in point. His decision making was also poor. Now, he did make some incredible throws to somewhat offset those things, but he really struggled in both areas.
He did improve in both areas. And he did it relatively quickly. I think that is one of the things that give me the most hope. It was easy to see how much he was improving---during the course of a year. That's pretty remarkable and something none of the menzas on here talk about. If he can improve during a season, what can this guy do over the course of years? I'd say he has a big upside. You see, he can do one thing that most QBs only dream about...........he can make
all the throws.
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Defenses do seem to be adjusting to him. I never thought he would be able to improve the way he has. For this reason I don't think I can dismiss his ability to adjust to the new defensive looks. In recent games weather has played a factor. I know it has effected some of his passes and may have gotten into his head on others.
It's pretty popular for people on here to say that defenses caught up to him and he became less effective. They say the opponents changed their defenses and it took away what DA does best and forced him to have to do things where he struggles. Excuse me a moment.
PDawg...........I guarantee you that there are very few people who really understand defenses and coverages on this board. By understanding......I'm talking about responsibilities w/in each particular defense. And I guarantee you that if we were at a game, these know-it-alls couldn't tell you what defense and coverage the opponent is in. And I have one more guarantee..........it's hard enough to recognize defenses and coverages when you are in the stands, but it's damn near impossible to know them when you are watching on the tube. It's BS observations like those that really bother me. It's so close to be a liar..........well.......and I hate liars.
Here it is..........I really can't tell if opposing defenses have made such tremendous adjustments that it has hindered DA's game. It's possible, but it is unlikely. It's just a pet phrase that stuck w/another QB we had here and people will use it to further their agendas. I think it is much more likely that the weather has been a bigger factor and that Chud has become more conservative in his playcalling later in the year. That's not a slam on Chud, because I think it is sound football. I have to get this in here though..........I really wish that Chud would have ran the ball more last week. The wind was brutal. You had two of the stronger-armed QBs in the league and they were both struggling. The difference---------we threw over twice as many passes as they did. I would say that was his first bad game of playcalling.
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His completetion % has been discussed. It is low, period. (That is also a stat. Diam that was for you. ) I was probably either the first or second person on this board to harp on this.
I have to laugh when so many people harp on his completion percentage. I think scoring points is more important..........and when was the last Brown's team to score this many points. Furthermore, what is yds. per pass attempt and where does he rank in the league? Ya' think the ol' completion percentage thingy might come down when you throw the ball deeper down the field? I'll take a lot of points and a high yds. per pass attempt over completion percentage 8 days a week. Furthermore............ya' think that perhaps his ability to throw the ball down the field may have helped the running game some? *L* I love our new o-line, but let's be real---------they are much better at pass blocking than they are at run blocking. DA helps the running game.
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He was plain awful in college. I read later in an article that the team's philosophy was to "Just chuck it." If that was indeed the case it would help explain away some of the high amount of picks and low completetion %. The fact is he has improved his comp. % since college. I don't see how that isn't growth considering the vertical attack we use.
Another good point. This guy has a lot of growing to do. I saw him grow this year. It was incredible to see a guy improve over the course of a few weeks. That stupid college system they ran retarded his progress severely. He has to learn things that he should already know. He had to change his mindset. Think about the comment Savage made.........DA is desirable because he can hit the 350 yd. drive, but he needs to work on his 7 irons. Well, that is mostly true because of that dumb college system they used at Oregon State. It's also kinda exciting, because the kid can really grow........and as it was this year........he was already pretty damn good.
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I do believe people have the right to critize his play. There is no problem with people wanting to point out what they perceive as flaws. I also see no problem with DA getting credit for what he has done. He was voted as a Pro Bowl alternate by his peers and coaches, not fans. He is also on pace to break many offensive records of very good QBs from our past. These records predate our expansion year of 99. I don't buy into the arguement that any average QB could have done what DA has. These are not easy accomplishments to achieve. Great line, Great receivers, Great backs do help. The bottom line is the QB most deliver. DA has more times thsn not.
Well said.
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Wouldn't that be a kicker if we let DA go and Quinn turned out to be a bust? That is one question I hope we never find out the answer to.
And it is a strong possibility. There are so many players drafted in around the area he was drafted that fail. BQ has done nothing at the professional level. The preseason games were meaningless. They were against vanilla defenses that didn't show elaborate blitz packages or coverages. His track record against quality competition in college is not very good. He put most of his numbers up against overmatched teams.
I am not saying he will fail. However, I think it is ludicrous that so many people are counting on this kid that they are making crap up about DA..........in the hopes that Browns send DA packing. There is not one iota of evidence that tells us BQ is a franchise QB. Not one.
I really respect Diam and his football knowledge. He loves the kid. That says something for him, but that is about all I have to go on........because quite frankly, he didn't impress me that much in college and I know the pro game is much harder. There are things on the football field that DA can do that BQ will never be able to do. I'm not saying BQ won't be better.....but he doesn't possess DA's arm nor his calm demeanor.
In short........no one can say he will ever be a better player than DA was this year. DA had a damn fine year. No one can BS me enough to change my mind on that. I didn't like DA. I was almost hoping he would get cut, but truth be told.........I am a Brown's fan first and foremost and this kid played excellent football. I could care less if I was wrong about him. He gives the Browns a legitimate chance to win each and every week. And again............NO ONE knows for sure if BQ can do the same. It would be crazy to cut ties w/DA before we're sure on BQ.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I don't know if DA is starting next year (as I suppose there will be a comp in TC), but I am all but certain he'll be here. We will put the highest tender on DA, and noway in hell a GM is stupid enough to give us a 1st and 3rd, and a big money deal for DA. The real decision doesn't come until after next year.
Folks that think we are getting a 1st rounder for DA are dreaming.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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One thing that stood out: I COMPLETELY agree about not running the ball enough last week. We were assaulting them on the ground with 4-5 yards per run yet we abandoned it.
In the What I Saw post I likened it to NASCAR and "missing the setup." We missed the gameplan badly in the week.
I just don't understand why we didn't adjust.
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I have to laugh when so many people harp on his completion percentage. I think scoring points is more important..........and when was the last Brown's team to score this many points. Furthermore, what is yds. per pass attempt and where does he rank in the league?
Couldn't agree more on compeltion percentage.
I have been one of DA's biggest supporters all year cuz he puts up points and has won some games.
I have also NOT ignored his deficiencies... the bonehead decisions at times, and some of the most God-awful throws on short/medium passes that should be gimmes for an NFL quarterback. When those two things start costing us games (and oh they did, just last week) that's when my support for DA wavers.
I agree on the BQ thing though ... we don't know for sure what we have in him. Therein lies the problem.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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We will put the highest tender on DA, and noway in hell a GM is stupid enough to give us a 1st and 3rd, and a big money deal for DA. The real decision doesn't come until after next year.
Never say never.,., stranger things have happened... Remember, one mans trash is most always another mans treasure...
There is a serious lack of QB talent in the draft and in FA this year.. Not many really good guys and lots of holes to fill... I won't speculate too much, but think Atlanta, Miami, Tampa (garcia can't play forever), Jets, Philly maybe, San Francisco... by no means is Chicago or Detroit set and the Vikings have a young guy there, but by no means is he close to proven either.. And let's be honest,, Troy Smith fans ain't gonna like this, but Baltimore isn't exactly buried in talent at QB either.
So there are plenty of teams that may feel the need to upgrade thier QB spot.. and there aren't a lot of guys to go around..
In the draft, there only appears to be 2 guys worth while and in FA or via trade,,, you have DA, McNair, McNabb, and who else?
So with 6 or maybe as many as 8 teams that may feel the need, ther is maybe only 3 to 5 guys including rookie draft picks and what are they gonna be worth thier first year?
So, like I said, don't be so quick to say that NOBODY will fork over a 1st and 3rd rounder for DA.... I think it could happen..
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/29/07 02:14 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
There is a serious lack of QB talent in the draft and in FA this year.. Not many really good guys and lots of holes to fill... I won't speculate too much, but think Atlanta, Miami, Tampa (garcia can't play forever), Jets, Philly maybe, San Francisco... by no means is Chicago or Detroit set and the Vikings have a young guy there, but by no means is he close to proven either..
Look at the 37 other QBs that Tampa signed this year.  Wouldn't surprise me at all.
Somebody is going to make an offer. Too many teams out there who need a QB.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I got a question for U ... after the Stilers game ... well before the weather turned bad .... and i mean 3 OR 4 WEEKS BEFORE THE WEATHER GOT BAD ... we started throwing more short stuff .. WHY did we do this if the D's weren't forcing us to well BEFORE THE WEATHER GOT BAD ...
I agree we can't tell on TV the pass coverages their in .. but I know DA started throing alot more underneath stuff 3 or 4 games ago .... and I don't believe it was cause Chud just decided to go away from his true strength and play into the D's before the weather got bad ..
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I do think that the game planning changed as the season went on, but I think we knew where we had to play our remaining games.
And again...............I don't know if teams schemed enough to take away what DA does best, but all I'm saying is it is BS to state it as fact.
Furthermore, if they did have to scheme to take away the deep pass, that certainly opened up the running game. That much I do know.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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It happend in like week 8 or 9 .. why the hell would we change our game plan for games in the beggining of Nov and then down in Zona ... the last 3 games ... Cinci ... vs the Jills and at the Jets .. I can see it .. but other than those 3 .. I can't see it ..
I agree it shouldn't be stated as fact ... I've never said it .. BUT SAYING IT DOES MAKE SENSE ... cause we started throwing more short stuff right after the stiler game .. and if I was a D-Coordinator .. I would MAKE HIM THROW UNDERNEATH ... but thats just me ..
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It's pretty popular for people on here to say that defenses caught up to him and he became less effective. They say the opponents changed their defenses and it took away what DA does best and forced him to have to do things where he struggles. I have said it..  If it's proven wrong then I'll admit it , but everything I've seen ,heard and read(not on this board) says it too..so I seriously doubt you can refute it..and I honestly think you know it too.. Sometimes I get the feeling you don't either want anyone else trying to be concrete in their analysis or you feel that hardly anyone else has a clue in what they see.. Too bad ..when they show the downfield view of the pass patterns or coverages and you actually see LB's (dropping deeper)and DB's doubled up outside or sliding over on the deep routes,it is what it is.. Any particular reason why DA isn't throwing the long ball lately?? Defenses did scheme to take the long ball away..we didn't start to throw intermediate and short passes just to do something different.. There are a lot of things that seem to bother you when you read other's posts..it gets me why you either allow yourself to get upset/offended or feel you have to this cold intolerance toward others..especially when they feel strongly about something..yet you POST WHAT you want and don't anyone trying to suppress your thoughts.....ain't that a kick in the head..... ;  I have said many times I look at things through a DB's eyes...not just a fans..but thats me..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/29/07 03:46 PM.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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we make the playoffs and DA puts up Holcomb-like numbers in the playoffs, I think this is gonna become a gigantic issue/distraction this offseason.
Face it, don't let the stats fool you, Quinn looked like he belonged out there. As a rookie. Should have had a TD on that drive but two, not one, but two drops killed it.
You heard the cheers when he came in, you heard the bigger cheers as he left, you even heard the mixed reaction for DA as he came back onto the field and into the game. This is a HUGE can of worms. So we might as well talk about it.
I think it's obvious whose camp I'm in, especially given the way DA has played over the second half of the season.
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How the FO handles this affair could be a make or break a career deal for all those involved. Especially themselves!!
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If DA is on the roster next year, he's #1. It makes all sense logically and fiscally.
I have mixed feelings on him but would gladly part for a decent pick or two.
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If DA is on the roster next yr he is the starter.. If someone offers us a 1st and 3rd Quinns the guy..Maybe Phil high tenders DA and let the league set his wage.. But if DA is on the roster he will be the #1 guy at the start of the season...
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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You heard the cheers when he came in, you heard the bigger cheers as he left, you even heard the mixed reaction for DA as he came back onto the field and into the game.
And the fans cheered for Couch ... and Holcomb ..... and Couch .... and Dilfer ..... and Frye .......
And it didn't amount to a hill of beans. If the FO and Coaches listen to the fans to make their decisions, they shouldn't have jobs.
Now, I didn't see Quinn's 8 pass attempts ..... but if I had .... whether they were the most wonderful 8 passes ever thrown, or the worst ..... it matters little.
I am now firmly in the camp of "I can't do anything about the decision one way or the other, so I'll trust the team to make the right decision .... and hope that it turns out to be the longterm right decision".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I am now firmly in the camp of "I can't do anything about the decision one way or the other, so I'll trust the team to make the right decision .... and hope that it turns out to be the longterm right decision".
Good choice...Cause this guy u been blowin' with stats for the last 10 weeks is STILL what he was at Oregon State...
U think every time Winslow gets off the turf flailin' in the wind with his arms it's because his knee hurts???
Happy NY...
Go Browns!!!
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All Pro
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[naive]Not sure why everyone cares so much who's going to be starting games for us next season, especially when this season might not even be over. Besides, I'm a Browns fan - not an Anderson or Quinn fan Whoever puts up Ws while wearing the orange hat is my guy.[/naive] Go on fighting, don't mind me 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I'm done. What happens happens. We went 10-6 and 7-1 at home with the guy ...... and we've been in position to win damn near every single game this year at the end ...... but if the other guy winds up being even better, then that's OK too. It's not your decision .... and it's not mine. I will say this: I sure hope that if Quinn starts next year he just comes out on fire and never slows down .... because his first falter, and this crowd'll have him shipped off to Miami or something.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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One thing I noticed in Quinn's interview...
The guy knows his coverages and where to put the ball, his football IQ based on a few short minutes I saw was amazing.
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[naive]Not sure why everyone cares so much who's going to be starting games for us next season, especially when this season might not even be over. Besides, I'm a Browns fan - not an Anderson or Quinn fan Whoever puts up Ws while wearing the orange hat is my guy.[/naive]
Go on fighting, don't mind me
It's ALL about the FUTURE of this football team...Nothing more...Nothing less...
Go Browns!!!
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Brady Quinn. Smart, mobile, accurate, confident and highly invested in.  I liked what I saw of him in limited time. I was hoping he would have stayed in today, since we were ahead and the game wasn't affecting the season. We won anyways, so good enough. Now go Indy!
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Just clicking I think the Browns are in Excellent shape no matter who starts next season.. some of you have your favorites.. Personally, I don't care as long as we win with whoever is in there.. Just 3 points I'd like to make: 1. We are 10-6 and a good amount of credit goes to DA, so warts and all, the kid (age 24) did a damn fine job.. 2. When called upon today, Brady Quinn started out a little shaky,, Can't say I blame him really,, first start, lots riding on it from a personal standpoint.. But I gotta give it to him, he pulled it together, got us down the field with some nice skill, got the ball into the end zone and had two (seemingly)catchable balls dropped for TD's.. I gotta give him a really big  3. It was nice to have a guy like Quinn come out when DA got banged up.. I love having that kinda depth.. To those that think we can't maintain that depth, read this article from Pluto from today's PD.. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1199007209291620.xml&coll=2Money isn't the issue.. unrest by either DA or Quinn may prove to be the bigger issue. But it could be that we hang onto DA for a few more years.. Like I said,, I like our depth with those two guys,, and I don't think it matters which one comes off the bench PS: I really did like how Quinn handled himself all year.. he's a good guy and as it turns out, based solely on what I saw today,, a guy that I trust running the team..... But I'm just not ready to give up a kid that helped get us to 10-6... Might have to happen... but I don't like it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Like you said, either way I think we're in good shape. There's teams out there without 1 good QB, and we have 2. It's something to be envious of. Either way, we have good things to look forward to.
In just answering the question of the thread, I really feel it will be Brady.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Your Opinion: Who will be the
starting QB Game 1 next season?
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