DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Expectations for Nick

I believe everything is nothing but pure conjecture and guesswork at this point in time. I mean I understand why people do that because he's a very big cog in the wheel. But when someone writes an article and the very beginning of the title is "Things I Think I Know" sort of speaks for itself.

I think he gets back, but not at the level he was by a pretty large margin. Maybe another year or two and he hangs it up. Sucks because he's been so dependable since we drafted him but the nature of the injuries, the position he plays, and this being the second time on same knee.. going to be tough. I think If you're the Browns, you find his replacement this year in the draft and if he comes back good as ever, great, then you have two good backs and you can keep the workload split

No expectations, but immense hope.

Knee injuries of this type normally take 2 years to fully heal.

That said, I am looking forward to seeing him on the field again.

It’ll be tough but if anyone can do it, Chubb can. I’m glad they restructured to keep him a Brown, and I look forward to his return in 2024.

I have no expectations.

No expectations. Just get healthy and be well Nick. That’s the most important thing as far as i’m concerned.

I wouldn’t say NO expectations except that I assume he won’t be 100% old Nick. If he’s 95%, he’s still among the very best runners in the league. The way this writer describes his return is about exactly how I’d expect it to go. If I were coach I’d be all about easing him in slowly. The real worry for me is defenders going after the knee. I’m still mad that everyone just shrugged off how Pitt went low on him all game until they finally got him and everyone was like “welp, that’s football”. If he indeed looks like old Nick, I’d expect Pitt and Balt to start taking knee shots again.

I expect him to be dominant. If he isnt then one of our other RBs will need to step up.

Super Bowl Champion

Yet it is just football. It was a legal hit. One we see several times on a weekly basis in the NFL. I didn't like it and it being legal isn't something I agree with but that's the reality of it.

I disagree with this. You don’t see players blatantly go at a guy's knees very often.

Nick was wearing them out like he does every team. Fitzpatrick made a dirty play and is heralded as a guy who was just playing football. It’s a weird take.

If this was a run of the mill play with it happening multiple times every game every week you’d see more horrific injuries like Chubb’s. You just don’t.

I’ll agree it’s football and definitely an expected outcome just from playing, but it was dirty and definitely not routine.

I just have a hard time calling a legal tackle a "dirty". I don't like that those are legal hits. But they are. For me to consider something as being dirty a player must somehow be braking the rules of the game. A legal hit by any definition is a clean hit.

Yep. It's a play that's not dirty until it's dirty.

He's launching towards a space in hopes to have impact on a play. He's a projectile, not a tackler. It crosses reckless abandon and breeches egregious.

All those that want to just say "that's football" we'll have to agree to disagree.


Especially since this comes from a team that is coached to play this way... They play with reckless abandon, and make dirty, egregious plays all the time in 'and goal' situations. First and goal, your QB drops back? He's not getting sacked, he's having his head removed. Why? Because it's a 1-4 yard penalty at most.

I've watched it for years, would love to see some advanced stats but won't seek them out on my own -- I don't need to.

I agree. Roughing the passer is a dirty play because it's against the rules of the game. Thus the penalty.

Are you following what I'm saying though? I'd rather not argue whether you think the following is true... you can be like "nah" while I'm foaming at the mouth, that part is not important...

Certain teams play a certain way, and are coached to do so when certain situations dictate. In 'and goal' situations, Pittsburgh plays "dirty" (my opinion). I'm not arguing for a flag against Stinkpatrick.

You say it's not "dirty" because it isn't even a play that would be penalized. I can't argue, but I definitely see it different.

I remember when a certain thing became prevalent in the NBA. Defenders would invade the foot space of shooters when they were in the air -- shooter would land on defenders foot and twist their ankle. When it was 'legal', nobody called it dirty. Once it was outlawed, everyone called it dirty. My contention was that it was dirty all along, many people just refused to call it that because it was within the rules.

I don't disagree with you that's there's two ways of looking at this. But as for myself I have to consider that the rules of tacking, making many things illegal in that department and an increase at limiting the type of tackles that are against the rules, such low tackles as the one Fitzpatrick made on Chubb have been discussed by the league in great detail. As for myself I would coach a team be play as aggressive and attacking as possible within the confines of the rules. You can't tackle people high anymore and trying to wrap Chubb up above the waste has been proven to be nearly impossible. So that leaves very little room with effective ways to bring him down.

So for me yes, if you're playing within the confines of the rules it's not dirty. If and when it becomes a rule not to hit at the knee and ankle level and you break the rule it's a dirty hit. For me to define something there has to be a point of reference with which I use to draw a conclusion. Something tangible to make such a determination. My point of reference is the NFL rule book.

As I said, I understand that everyone does not share that view.

Just had my quad repaired, if Chubb can’t go, I’ll sign up for the job… but I want a Watson contract, where the team pays me a truckload of Benjamins to sit or play poorly. I’d be good with that. Real good. But I’d pity Browns fans.

"You'll get nothing and like it"

I have zero data to back this up (lazy) but I’ve been watching Browns/Steelers for 45yrs, watching Browns/Ravens for 25yrs, it’s always nagging at me when they play that we’re just much more likely to have catastrophic injuries during those games. Especially the Steelers. They play right up to what they can get away with and cause an injury. They choose players that are naturals that way. Harrison, Ward, Farrior, Polamalu, etc. I’m not saying Fitzpatrick was coached on that specific play to dive at his knees but perhaps a murmur among among the D and coaches during the week that when he’s barreling at you, you do what you need to do. It’d be a real shame if they lost their best player at a key moment, just sayin’. If it costs 15 yards, hey that’s football.
If we’re being honest, I wish we returned the favor most years. Just send an NHL style message to think hard before opening that can. Apart from Garret’s little helmet fitting assist, I feel like we play the Millhouse to their Nelson most years.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39949719/vikings-tj-hockenson-says-nfl-needs-look-low-hits

I wasn't really in agreement with the 'dirty hit' angle, but Fate's post about dirty hits being legal until they're not got me thinking more about it... and then I read this article. There's a decent amount of tidbits of info to unpack from that article. Both players were bigger (tight ends) getting hit by DBs (who tend to be smaller). Going high on a bigger guy is a recipe to get trucked, not to mention the risk of getting flagged for a hit to head (which is tough because running and cutting usually means they have a pretty good knee-bend and/or lean going.

I was surprised to hear the snippet from Dan Campbell. I know he's intense and everything, but I never took him for a coach that would advocate for dangerous hits. He says he coaches his defenders to aim for the 'thigh board'... which surprised me. I would think that's way too low, but I also never played football (played hockey and with checking you want to be low but not too low).

Food for thought.

Good article.

Part of the unpacking goes down a road that (strangely) contrasts the NBA to the NFL again. The "brotherhood" aspect. It's valuable because we can't just create an endless amount of subjective penalties.

The NBA seems to have a much stronger fellowship. And much more vocal leaders when certain 'trusts' are breached. They will call out their own. Sometimes it's subtle: "we all want to stay healthy and play for as long as we can"; sometimes more direct: "there's no room for that in the game, I hope that wasn't intentional". A lot of times that's directed towards a rookie / young player, a lot of times that young player is apologizing the next day and has probably learned a valuable lesson.

I feel like I've watched an uptick (to be modest) of 'dives' at players' knees. No stats, but much like 10yr, I've been watching long enough to know. I DO know that the shrugging excuse is always "well, we can't go high". I feel like a lot of nodding to that line has allowed a lot of bad excuses for what I consider egregious plays.


And again, much like 10yr in his post above, I watch the Steelers do it like clockwork. I watched a few of their games down the stretch against other opponents -- same old, same old.

So let's assume I'm right, and there is a pattern... Is it wrong to coach your players to play with more reckless abandon, not be afraid of penalties on 1st and goal from the 2? If we're talking about mugging a WR in the end zone to prevent a sure TD, hell no. If we're talking about diving at players, taking the top off a QB "because it's only a 1yd penalty", well, that's when we enter a huge gray area imo.

The argument about the lesser penalties near the goal line is a great point. I hadn't thought about that and even though it's an assumption on your part I do think it falls well within the "do whatever you can to win" type of thing we see from NFL teams/players.

In an off-season where the hip-drop tackle was banned, I don't see why we can't also ban diving at players' knees. Right?

I'm still curious about the quote from/about Dan Campbell and "aim for the thighboard". Wonder if any folks who have played at higher levels would agree/argue that one.

What I can tell you is with two bodies flying around at such a high speed and often times not in a straight line, where you are aiming for doesn't mean that's where the contact will occur.

Agreed, and we see low hits on ball carriers all the time. Harrison was a dirty player, but I don’t think Minkah meant to hurt Chubb. It’s football, a contact sport played at high speed with fractions of a second to make a decision/move.
Guy get hurt.

I'm not sure that there's "less" of a fellowship in the NFL... I just imagine that it's gotta be different given how much more aggression is involved in playing football.

Fair take, can't argue.

Everything sounds different to me when even teammates can call each other out though. Alas, I'm armed with little info, I just remember a Cav calling out a young Cav a couple years ago. Durant calling out Bozo, and a couple other instances.

I think part of the issue is the persistent "NFL careers are short anyway" mentality that dilutes aggressive play that crosses into gray areas.

j/c:

Interview with Nick Chubb:

What a good dude. I appreciate that he puts up with it but really doesn’t seem to enjoy the interview process. Especially as the questions just get kinda grasping for whatever

He hates it.

You can’t help but feel bad for him during these sessions.

I think we have all experienced parts of our job we aren't crazy about. Whether it's anything from paperwork to being micromanaged to whatever else just seems like a thorn in your side. Just like these interviews are for Nick. It's all just part of the job.

I believe Stefanski/Dorsey will greatly reduce Chubb's carries not because of his injuries but his age. This offense will move more toward passing. I think this was the design as Chubb approached age 30.

I don't think the change over from the balanced attack to a more pass friendly O has much of anything to with Chubb's age or injury. I think it's an attempt to get what they paid for out of watson. You don't pay that kind of price for a QB and not expect top production from him. The O will simply be more catered and centered around watson.

I’m looking forward to his first game back, when he face-plants a Dallas defender and takes it to the house. How cool would that be?

He’s not just speed, he is also power and instinct. We’ve all seen the weight-room videos and his pure strength.

I long have said I don't expect anything.


But, if we keep pushing, ok, 2300 on the ground or he is a bum.

This is somewhat of an update as well as the hit that caused the injury.....

Chubb gives opinion on hit that caused gruesome injury

Wed, Jun 5, 2024, 2:05 PM CDT

BEREA, Ohio (WJW) — Cleveland Browns running back Nick Chubb updated progress Wednesday on his knee rehab, spoke out about the hit that caused the season ending injury and continues to watch Organized Team Activities (OTA’s) from the sidelines in Berea.

FOX 8’s John Sabol reports that Chubb said he doesn’t know when he’ll return to playing, but that his rehab is going well.

Chubb also gave his opinion on the hit that caused the gruesome injury on national TV during a primetime game during week two of last season against Pittsburgh. That’s when Steelers safety Minkah Fitzpatrick rolled into and on Chubb’s right leg, causing it to buckle at the knee.

Many football fans and some football analysts called the hit “dirty,” which Fitzpatrick said it was not.

Wednesday in Berea, Chubb said that he does not believe Fitzpatrick’s hit was dirty.



The Browns regular season schedule starts at home against Dallas on September 8.

https://sports.yahoo.com/chubb-give...PvomiybUVI0DiB5TnSlygMc2WUitlS4rI_jiQB71

I never thought it was a dirty hit. Not once.
Just a bad collision.

Show me a CB or Safety in the NFL that doesn't blatantly go at a player's knees on almost EVERY play? 99% of those players wouldn't know how to stick and wrap their arms for a tackle if their life depended on it. Without fale, these players launch their bodies at the lower extremities on nearly every play They are taught to tackle that way and has been the driving force for undersized players to compete with bigger backs with momentum. Unfortunately, if the players leg gets firmly planted at the moment of the hit, something has to give - as in this case Chubb's knee. Me personally, I have never liked that type of tackling. I think it endangers the carrier on every play. I also believe that it's a crutch that allows poor tacklers to stay on the field. However, it is deemed as legal and like it or not, every single Browns DB on the roster tackles the exact same way multiple times every single game. Until the NFL addresses the issue, it will remain in place for all teams including the Browns. Not unlike leading with the head or the recently banned hip tackle, changing the diving at the lower extremities is an issue that if changed will greatly alter the game because 99% of the DB's don't know how to tackle. That may happen someday but until then, hard to bitch about the hit when you yourself live in that same glass house. Remember, they changed it for the hits on QB's so it can be done but at what cost to the game? Not sure but as of today, not dirty or illegal - EVERY TEAM DOES IT!

I cannot disagree more. I watch pretty much every game every week. Players might dive at a guys legs. It’s either thigh level or calf level. You rarely see guys dive directly at the knee. If they did you’d see more injuries like Nicks which we don’t see that often.

It is a reactionary thing. Players dive low. I don't think there is much aiming other than aim low to take a players legs out. It is also a moving target. The DB starts his low tackles..say towards the ankles. As the back gets a foot or so closer, it is now going to impact the knees.

It's hard...if not impossible...to give guys like Fitzpatrick the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with your post but this isn't the first time a Steeler has hurt a Browns player knocked them out of a game and caused them to miss time.

Nick Chubb disagrees with you.

Nick Chubb did. He plainly stated the hit wasn't dirty.

I can't believe that after his statement this is still up for debate. No wait a minute, yes I can.

And Caitlyn Clark is ok with being left off the Olympic team.

I mean she said so.

Yes, comparing the two is so meaningful!

Nick Chubb has played this sport since he was a child and the only thing you can do to try to continue making your point is to try and discredit Nick Cubb. Bravo!

Yes, I discredited Nick Chubb.

Or I just simply made a point that what people say in public aren’t what they mean.

Or Nick and I could just disagree.

I’m ok with any of those outcomes.

You really struggle with context and opinions.

Where did I say that the hit on Chubb was dirty? Even if I DID say it was dirty, that would be MY OPINION in contrast to that of Chubb's. He can think what he thinks and I can think what I think (even though I did not opine on the hit itself). It's not a math equation with a definitive answer. Not to mention...what else is Chubb going to say? He can leave the whining up to the fans.

Certain players - and certain teams - are known for what they do and how they do it. When they do their thing - with or without bad intent - it's difficult to believe their public claim(s) about a specific action(s). Boy that cried wolf...benefit of the doubt. It's not difficult to see.

If you don't/can't/won't see Rish's point...I certainly can't help you with that either.

Read the rest of your post in it's entirety again. What you're saying is quite obvious.

No doubt you can think whatever you want to think. Sadly that is no comparison to a person who plays this game as a profession and has for several years now and suffered a similar injury in college. Some people would take the word of a person with far more experience in actually playing the game as a learning experience. Then as we can see, some obviously will not.

Yeah, Chubb made it clear and you're looking for ways to claim you know more about it than he does. I'm sure you're okay with that outcome.

Is it really that hard to believe that Chubb just doesn't want the publicity that saying it was a dirty hit would bring? He's obviously not comfortable with media attention and has avoided it since he's been here. I can't recall him ever pointing a finger at anyone, it's not who he is. Saying anything other than it wasn't a dirty hit would bring the headlines. I have no problem thinking there's a damn good chance that's why he said that.

It's not an impossibility you are correct, however there were plenty of ways to give a non answer. We see it all the time. You don't have to point a finger at someone by saying that you're not sure and people will have to determine that for themselves. Or you could simply read the rules that explain what illegal hits are to see this was not an illegal hit. It makes far more sense for a player to know and state that it wasn't a dirty hit since it's plainly a legal hit. For most a dirty hit would be a hit that violates the rules of the game. For others it seems not so much.

As it pertains to Chubb it seems that a hit that falls within the content of the rules and is not a violation of the game rules is not what he considers a dirty hit. At least that seems to make far more sense than people trying to claim he didn't mean what he said.

I don't think it's any more doubtable than your other options.

So you think saying the hit wasn't dirty because it was a legal hit is not more viable than claiming he wasn't being honest? We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

We/Browns know Chubb- his injured leg will be as strong or stronger than his good leg--unless God decides differently- effort ain't an issue. Nick ready week one- but they use him just a little.....Go Browns!!!

j/c...

What a legend.

I admire your hopeful enthusiasm.

I admire Nick Chubb

My daughter just tried to secure #24 for her jersey on her new soccer team, but it was taken.

We had to settle for #95.

I wouldn't bet against Chubb being back for week 1. Not saying it will happen, I just wouldn't bet against it.

This is great to see. Unfortunately, it doesn't really test lateral stability.

With the Tsunami Barbell®, Chubb is working on his stabilizers. That is not a routine squat workout.

Before his injury last year, Chubb squatted over 600 lbs with the Tsunami Barbell®.

He is roughly working about 70% near last year. In the video, he is working out with regular dudes spotting. He has the green light to do his normal workout routine.

I never used the Tsunami Barbell®. I'm curious what the difference feels like.

Funny, I was wondering the same thing. Finally dug in last night to what kind of bar he was using. AI provided the following breakdown. The part about "enhanced muscle recruitment" seemed obvious to me, but that would seem, on the surface, to be rather uncomfortable. Reduced joint stress makes a lot of sense as well.


The Tsunami Barbell offers several advantages over traditional steel barbells:

Increased force production: Studies have shown that the Tsunami Bar generates significantly greater forces than an Olympic barbell due to its flexible nature, allowing for greater force production during exercises.

Enhanced muscle recruitment: The bar's flexing and oscillating properties recruit additional muscles during lifts, particularly stabilizer muscles.

Improved rate of force development: The bar's design allows users to develop explosiveness more safely, potentially improving an athlete's ability to generate strength quickly for activities like running, jumping, and hitting.

Reduced joint stress: Some athletes report less joint pain when using the Tsunami Bar for exercises like overhead presses compared to traditional barbells.

Versatility in training: The bar can be used for various exercises and training methods, including dynamic bench presses, high-rep benching, overhead pressing, and as part of complex training routines.

Rehabilitation benefits: The oscillation of the bar can be beneficial for rehab purposes.

Comfort for certain exercises: The thicker diameter and flexible nature of the bar make it more comfortable for exercises like Zercher squats.

Unique training stimulus: The bar's properties provide a different training stimulus compared to traditional barbells, potentially leading to new adaptations and performance improvements.

Preparation for sports-specific demands: The bar's dynamic properties may better prepare athletes for the unpredictable forces encountered in sports.

Increased stabilizer activity: The oscillation of the bar enhances stabilizer muscle activity, potentially improving overall strength and coordination.

While the Tsunami Barbell offers these advantages, it's important to note that it's not meant to replace traditional barbells entirely but rather to complement existing training tools and methods.