DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum When Romeo gets the boot...what kind of coach?

O.k can him after the season..then what buddy boy?
And bring in WHO?
They fire him ...they BETTER HAVE A COACH who isn't going to start over again.
Which is whats going to happen..

Starting over isn't as bad as it sounds if the guy doing the starting is doing it the correct way.

Plus....I don't think you have to tear everything down if all of it isn't bad.


If it needs to be fixed, it needs to be fixed. I am not saying we need to...to be honest, my guess is no better than anyone elses, but this idea we need to stay away from that is as bad as switching too soon.

One common factor in all of our coaches since our return is none of them were head coaches before....at least in the NFL.

If and when we hire someone else, maybe we need to look for a guy who has made his mistakes in the past and is ready for another crack. It is much easier to correct your past mistakes in a new enviorment than it is to wake up one morning and make those changes in your current job.

Sometime, the people around you don't allow you to change.

Continuity....boy do I hate this word..it's used as an excuse to maintain a regime that in two years has accomplished nothing. Are we progressing or regressing? The stats say that we are doing the latter and are a long way from the former.

My biggest fear is that we are following in the Raiders footsteps. They have become the joke of the NFL....crazy owner living in the past, QB problems out the ying yang, dissaffected WR's and a Former Hall of Fame player and Team alum as Coach who has been emasculated by Elvis Davis.

Is this what we want our Browns to become? I realize that some aspects of the Raiders do not mirror the Browns but were the Raiders not the team that America loves to hate we might be getting the same press.

Many posters have made great points both pro and con on keeping RAC around. I have never been a fan of his and IMHO this guy needs to go. As a teacher I am expected to perform and to perform I have to be judged by how well my students do...do you think I would be working long if only 10 out of 30 3rd graders passed and went on to 4th grade in my first year and 5 out of 30 in my second? I'd be out on my ass....winning football games pales in comparsion to educating our children but would you want a teacher with that kind of performance teaching your kids?

My tearducts will remain as dry as the Gobi desert if RAC is shown the door. He is rapidly becoming irelevant.

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I'm glad. Such a differing opinion keeps my eyes open to other viewpoints.

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Perhaps he was, but you can't be a scapegoat unless there's a legit reason to fire you. In Mo's case, the players were in full mutiny mode. Everyone under the sun felt he needed to be let go except for one guy, and that was RAC. Once Mo was fired, all the rest of the stuff came flying out, and I believe it's clear his firing was long overdue.

Maybe our higher ups aren't qualified, but there isn't a person in the know anywhere that said his firing was a mistake. RAC's faith was admirable, but it was flawed.

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I agree completely. The problem is that we're not winning, so there isn't an excuse to say it's ok he's making these blunders <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If we were winning, I'd still be complaining, hehe.

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Ahhhh......hah! Now we've come to the meat and potatoes of why many (not saying you) don't want him to be fired: Continuity. It's a hugely legitimate concern.

So let me ask this. How hard is it to find guys to run the 3-4? If I remember correctly, the DC in NY had never run it before, but they are having moderate success. It's also the "new thing" in defense, and there are plenty of asst. coaches who can run the defense.

So what about offense? Let's be honest: RAC doesn't know dick about offense <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> It was Mo's, and now it's........nobodies, because Davidson is still using Mo's system. We were bound to change things up anyway, so it's not a big deal. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let me add some fuel to this fire. I'd love Cowher here. I've said it since rumors swirled a couple of years ago that he could be out. Setting him aside, I wouldn't mind Denny Green coming in along with his WCO and his proven track record. I can't fault a guy for failing under one of the true doormats in this league in Bill Bidwell. I'd also be for bringing Mike Sherman in for a look-see. (note the not-so obvious WCO connections). I also think that if you can bring Mooch back into the league, you do it.

I just think that RAC had plenty of time to learn and show he can be the man. From poor gameday coaching to letting the inmates get away with too much to not knowing when enough was enough with Mo........I believe that if he isn't fired now, it'll happen before midseason next year, and if we're going to have a high chance of firing him next year, we might as well do it now so that we can go into a draft and free agent period with the new people in place. [/color]

Just Clicking..

It's amazing to me that all of you guys that want RAC gone have such short memories..

We were all told that it was going to take time when Savage and RAC were brought in,,, We were told that they intend to not build for the short term but rather build to withstand all the ups and downs and changes in the NFL...

The entire premise of this thread is that RAC is getting fired at somepoint between Monday of next week and the middle of next season... As if that were the answer for everything.. <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

This "I want it now" attitude that some of you have just drives me nuts.. as if any of you could do a better job.. It's easy to sit back and use 20/20 vision to tell us all what someone has done wrong,,, isn't it?

I gotta get off this soapbox of mine or I'm gonna start losing friends on here (that's if I have any left).

Mr D-Shot,
My "I want it now" attitude may be inexplicable to you but it makes perfect sense to me. Could I do a better job? Doubtful....however I have the right as a merchandise buying,game watching, tear producing fan to voice my opinion. It's all about performance....if RAC isn't performing he has to go....I seriously doubt that one more year or 8 more years will change that. The man hasn't got it..plain and simple....but I'll still remain your friend! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't see Denny Green in Cleveland.

The biggest problem with the team is K2 and BE. I don't see Green "fixing" that issue.

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Yet the damned thing keeps cropping up, rearing it's ugly head at every turn *L* It always comes back to that: The reason we fail, the reason we fear change. It's absolutely legitimate in theory as well as practice, but the kicker is always the same: Continuity for the sake of continuity is just continuity in failure, not success.

[color:"white"] <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I tip my frawged-hat to you, Autumn. "Elvis Freakin' Davis".....I owe ya one for puttin' a grin on my face /me bows <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We're not to that point yet. We're not a laughingstock. We're just stuck in a rut. Every year the press, who by most definitions are the ones that stick organizations with labels, tell us how Savage is good and how we're going in the right direction, but in the end, it doesn't work.

Big difference.

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In parts of Texas you'd get a raise *L*

Sadly, I'm with you on RAC. If I saw a guy who was making mistakes while simultaneously doing great things, I'd think he'd earned more time. What I've seen over the last few weeks have made me rethink that position.......[/color]

[color:"orange"] I'm going to say something you and others who want Rac gone won't like..whateva..won't be the first time..won't be the last..
RAC understands that the business of football is winning.
He 's not stupid but he isn't given to knee jerk reactions either or do what the masses want done..He is in charge of a team that's not winning.
He knows it will cost him his job (assume for a minute its not too late) if things don't change.
Did not he stated it was going to take time?
Did not Opie state that?
Did not U and a lot of other posters say the same thing?
Now U want to jump ship on the guy after two years, then later say "Well they coulda gave him one more year to turn it around?"

RAC may have already graded his coaching staff and may be preparing to make some changes. Its obvious the coaching staff as a whole has underwhelmed.
I said may have..it's possible that Opie has already started planning that..


RAC may have decided he was gonna replace MoC after the season anyway, knowing it didn't work. He just may have felt that firing Mo in the middle of the season wasn't going to better the Browns anyand give the impression of labeling Mo as the scapegoat.
Probably something which he disdains. It also gives a little creedence to the motto, "the inmates are running the asylum".

So, bottom line is this..... just because it may be suggested the RAC need to make coaching changes in his staff, don't assume he's not looked at the big picture

And yes continuity has a lot to do with it..can't keep flipping coaches like this is Buger King. [/color]

[color:"white"]Continuity..........to what end, D?

It all comes down to whether or not each person thinks RAC can become more than what he is now. After two seasons, but primarily after watching the last month, I'm forced to say no, which is tough because I was his advocate just 8 games ago.

I don't care about the final score. Like a QB who's winning despite his play, I'll still point at the negatives which would lead to failure.[/color]

[color:"white"]So.........when are you going to get to the part that I don't like? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was preparing myself for a barage of anti Bufotism <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RAC may be shaking up the staff. The thing there is that Opie had to do it for him this year, so I no longer trust that he knows what he's doing in that regard.

There are arguements on both sides here. I'm doing nothing more than stating why I feel the way I do.[/color]

jc

Why is everyone so bent on blaming/firing one person for ALL of our problems? It started early in the year with the "fire Mo" chants. We fired Mo. Then when the offense didn't work, everyoen started chanting to bench Frye. Frye got hurt, Anderson came in, still no improvement in the offense. Now everyone wants to jump on RAC as if getting rid of him will make us a super bowl champ next year.

This team has so many problems that firing just one man or one player will not fix it. RAC has had 2 years. Given the condition this team was in when he took over, 2 years is not enough time. A lot of things need to be fixed, he at least deserves another off season to address these issues.

Since reentering the nfl, this team has never had a foundation built. It will take time to for that foundation to be built. We start to build something, then the fans run the the coaches out of town, we get a new coach and it starts all over again. No wonder this team never gets anywhere, we keep making the same mistakes.

You guys are convinced that if we keep RAC the next season is lost. If we get rid of RAC and have to start over(again) it will be more than next season that is lost. I haven't given up on rac and think our best chance right now is to leave him in place for another year and see what happens.

My concern is our reputation as a team. We run players and coaches out of town without giving them a chance. Who will want to coach/play here knowing they won't have a job in 2 years unless they win a super bowl.

imo, unrealistic expectations from the fans is the biggest problem.

With you Attack, this isn't a situation where I was like with Botch..."Oh my God, what an IDIOT!!!!" ever. I have never questioned Romeo's ability in game, because I see it as a PLAYER problem. I haven't seen him make huge idiotc mistakes.

I see terrible players, not terrible coaching, but not GREAT coaching either...

Chuck Noll's first three year record....

1-13
5-9
6-8

People think about how great a coach Bill Cowher is, and yes he is, but he rode the house that knoll built his first few seasons.

Romeo is riding the house that Botch Built...big diff

JMO

[color:"red"]barage of anti Bufotism [/color]
<img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm only saying that to pull the trigger on Rac it has to be mutually concluded he is not fit to coach despite any changes he makes..
It also has to figured they KNOW what direction they want to go and consider the changes that follow..if Rac goes then that whole staff save a few people(Tucker) are gone..
Even if he stays a few are going anyway...
I think best thing is to bring him back ..let Opie bring in the talent, let Rac lay down the guideline and let them take off next season..

:laughs:Squires you are reminding me of someone who sees only what they want to see.
P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E....that is the only benchmark a NFL coach should be judged by. As others have said before and I will restate...the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Would you be so kind as to list what RAC has done for the Browns lately? All I see is negative press and a losing record. RAC may be kind to dogs,kids and his mother,he may make a mean calzone, he may keep his checkbook balanced but if he cant perform and demonstrate IMPROVEMENT at his job than the axe must fall. To Quote the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"

j/c

If the team wins this week thats 5 wins....One more than the expected 4...

That should help with the blues around this board.....

If they lose.....whats the big deal......the reality of 4-12 was what most thought was going to be the record ....

High hopes...vs...reallity...........


I almost need to take valium and drink before I enter.....

[color:"red"] With you Attack, this isn't a situation where I was like with Botch..."Oh my God, what an IDIOT!!!!" ever. I have never questioned Romeo's ability in game, because I see it as a PLAYER problem. I haven't seen him make huge idiotc mistakes.
[/color]
I just want them to do the best thing..not overreact.

I'm ALL for continuity & stability, but when the inmates are running the asylum and you can't get your team up for Tampa Bay, there's a MAJOR problem. Do I like the revolving door that is the Cleveland Browns head coaching job? NO! I don't care if he's a "players coach" and everybody likes him. Sure I'd like him too if I didn't even get a slap on the wrist for flying down to Columbus to watch the OSU/UM game & arriving back late for a team meeting. He may be their "buddy", but it sounds like they really don't respect him!

That would seem to make the most sense unless someone practically falls in our laps that we can't pass up for one reason or another.

I think its also important to note that much of RACs struggles this season have been with "new" problems. Problems that span seasons are of greater concern in my eyes.

It seemed there was a strong focus since last season on mental mistakes (penalties, etc) and special teams - both of which improved this year. He'd likely turn his attention to turn-overs and player management next season.

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Whoops, sorry man. I meant to explain that one later in the post.

"Bufo" is a term used to describe the common Toad.

The not-so funny joke is on me now <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

So, how do you feel about Marvin Lewis? Should he be fired? The two things said above are quite accurate in describing him.

I thought you meant Jimmy Buffet. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Exactly,

The Browns are currently ranked 31st in total offense, and total defense. Think about that for a minute. Have we improved?

We are 30th in scoring offense. (15.5 PPG) We are tied for 25th in scoring defense. (22.8 PPG allowed)

In 2004, we were 28th in total offense, and 28th in scoring offense at 17.2 PPG. We were 15th in total defense, and 24th in scoring defense. (although,in fairness, we did allow more PPG at 24.4 per) If one remembers that year, we gave up 58, 42, and 37 in consecutive weeks while Butch self destructed and Robiske was dong his best impersonation of an NFL coach.

Anyway ...... so where is this mythical improvement I hear about? I know that it somehow isn't the kind that shows in the record ...... but by God it has to show somewhere. It can't just be a few players are playing well. That's a few players actually performing .... not team improvement.

There are countless stories of people who excel at one job, only to fail miserably at a higher level with different responsibilities. Companies fire VPs, Presdident, and department heads every day, even though these people were obviously successful at a lower level. It's no different in the NFL.

I thought it had something to do with Joey Buttafuoco ... <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

It's not about record! It's about how the team performs on the field. Are they improving? Are they doing anything better today than when the season started? Has there been any progress as a team?

If there has been, I sure as hell don't see it.

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Since it's ellicited not only Jimmy Buffet but Joey Buttefuco in the same sentence, maybe there's some entertainment value to be salvaged from that afterall <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now to do what I've always been accused of doing in the past.........*L*

Ytown, before the season started, I'd stated that as long as we saw improvement from the youngsters......the future core of this team........we could have the same record there or thereabouts and call it progress. To that extent, we have seen some progress, but I don't know if it's enough when one considers the mistakes that have popped up along the way.[/color]

That's Mike Brown's decision to make, not mine (and I'm not trying to come off like a jackass). Lewis has made some poor personnel decisions, which it seems like alot of Bengals fans have given him a "pass" on with the "just win baby" mentality (although I do know a few who want him canned).

"help with the blues"? I'll have you know I have moved further down the visual spectrum into the deep violets. I have a nasty confession to make...I hope we lose this week....I am hoping to get that third pick in the draft.
Does that put me in the category of"not a real fan"?

This season cannot be salvaged by a meaningless win in the last game of the season. I will there for turn to the Saints(the Catholic ones, not those from Louisiana) and pray fervently to St.Jude...the Patron Saint of Desperate Causes that this team and this FO can find their path out of the quagmire of mediocrity and into the light of respectability.

The improvenment have been mostly on the D side of the ball.
Granted Winslow showed his skills but Edwards MERELY SHOWED what he did at Michigan..
Coincidence?
Hardly...Rass fault? Hardly..
I admit he should have put the hammer down on Mr.I gottaopen my piehole <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />
Frye showed he needs a OLINE to operate under..RD regressed ..is that on Rac or the players?

I hate to break it to you but, this decision isn't your's either. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> You didn't answer my question but that's okay, I didn't think you would. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Certainly NOT. I could not care less about this game, I'll watch it (of course) but I don't want Ken Dorsey to turn into a stud for one game though. This is the kind of meaningless game we don't need to win...if we had say 6 wins, i may feel differently but as it is, we have something to lose, by winning. <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

I consider myself a "real" fan regardless of what jules says. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> and I would like nothing more than to lose 50-49 on a last second feild goal. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Is the D really better??

We may have a few more parts, but it isn't better.

He won't because it's the Bengals..if that stuff were happening here they'd want Rac's head as well..
There are people in Cincy who don't like it but they aren't calling for Lewis's head..

[color:"red"] feild [/color] as a general rule BpG "i before e except after c" oops the teacher in me is coming out! <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

"....The entire premise of this thread is that RAC is getting fired at somepoint between Monday of next week and the middle of next season... As if that were the answer for everything..
This "I want it now" attitude that some of you have just drives me nuts.. as if any of you could do a better job."

I started this thread by asking the question," When Romeo gets fired whenever that is[ I mentioned now or as long as 3 years down the road] what kind of coach will take over?" I was trying to determine WHAT KIND OF PHILOSOPHY OF WINNING FOOTBALL WE WANT.

Some of you folks act like getting fired isn't a near absolute in coaching in the NFL. Hell guys, If Paul Brown,Tom Landry and most other top notch coaches get fired why is it so OUTRAGEOUS TO WONDER WHEN THE CLOCK STARTS TICKING ON RAC????

What we are doing now doesn't work....injuries...bad draft picks...earthquakes in Lake Erie...all excuses. I simply want to know what we want as a new H.C. in the near future.

Please, leave your delusions off this thread. Thanks.

What? Not better?
How not?
The Dline now stands as the weakest link and with the linemen healthy they are not good ..
The LB's are better as a unit..
The secondary would have been better had everyone been healthy..
Yet Rac was able to use garbage pieces to maintain it.
Now with Baxter out we need a starter ..
It bears the marks of a 34 NOT THE PHONY collection of square pegs we had in 05.

My point really was that you can say those things he said about any number of coaches. In Dallas it looks like the inmates are running things, they've lost games they should have won, etc., I'm saying these people act as though that kind of thing doesn't happen in other places and they aren't of the opinion that those coaches should be fired.

See <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I guess I didn't answer it because although there are similarities between comparing Lewis & Crennel, they are also totally different. The Bengals are winning & we are not. If Crennel were winning & the same thing were happening with the players here as in Cincinnati, I'd be disgusted. We'd be winning, but I'd still be disgusted. Crennel's lack of control might also get overlooked a bit if they were winning (just like Lewis' has been).

I wouldn't fire Lewis, but if possible, I'd get rid of some players and put him on a shorter leash (as far as background checks for some of these players before drafting). Keep Crennel, but I'm willing to bet that the Browns don't get rid of their biggest problem child (Edwards).